Is there a science to happiness?

Discussions on the philosophical foundations, assumptions, and implications of science, including the natural sciences.

Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 13th, 2017, 7:18 pm 

Have any of you heard of unschooling before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeIZz4wbt78&t=1s
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Eclogite on February 13th, 2017, 10:22 pm 

@ Revolutionary

The following may be of use to you:

LA City Organization Chart

Economic Development Strategies for Los Angeles

City Council Elected Officials

Maps of Council Districts

I thought this one might interest you. If you wish to have a revolution it's best to know what you are up against:

District 3 Intern Program

This google search turned up over 1/4 million hits for the query "Los Angeles 'action program' volunteer". At least some of them must be related to like minded people such as yourself.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby mitchellmckain on February 15th, 2017, 11:41 pm 

Revolutionary » February 10th, 2017, 2:26 am wrote:Why are most things taught in school so theoretical but, not practical.

What is the difference between theoretical and practical.
Theoretical refers to methodology that can apply to a wide variety of situations. "Practical" in the sense of being contrasted to "theoretical" would mean focusing on the application of the general methods to particular situations. So the question is, do we teach students like turning out pre-programmed carbon copy robots to live all the same life or do we equip them with tools which they can use no matter what life they lead? The latter choice means that we would teach them "theoretical" rather than "practical."


Revolutionary » February 10th, 2017, 2:26 am wrote:As in learning how to manage and make money.

Ah!! so everyone should be programmed as good little slaves to the economic system in order be good little consumers.

Revolutionary » February 10th, 2017, 2:26 am wrote:Why is the curriculum one size fits all?

It's not. It begins with the basics which are the same for all and then we have the opportunity to specialize by choosing what classes we take.

Revolutionary » February 10th, 2017, 2:26 am wrote:Why hasn't anything in the education system changed since the industrial age?

It has change enormously. Just take one example: mathematics. Not so long ago this consisted of extreme repetition of few procedures like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division -- over and over and over again. These days it has changed quite a bit to focus much more on highly varied problem solving.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 2:07 am 

It's funny how you mentioned being a slave to the economic system when I felt most like a slave when I was in the mandatory boring education system. I felt like I had absolutely no freedom.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Eclogite on February 16th, 2017, 3:30 am 

Revolutionary » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:07 am wrote:I felt like I had absolutely no freedom.
What sort of freedom would you have liked to have had?
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 5:04 am 

Did you watch the video I posted on top of page 2?
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Eclogite on February 16th, 2017, 5:56 am 

Revolutionary » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:04 am wrote:Did you watch the video I posted on top of page 2?
I have an aversion to watching videos that are offered in forums, especially when these are accompanied by little or no explanation. I do not assert that this is a reasonable aversion, but it does exist.

Executive Summary: No.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 6:03 am 

I see well the video has to do with unschooling. I think it's a more natural way that young people should learn.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Eclogite on February 16th, 2017, 6:17 am 

Perhaps you would briefly describe what unschooling means. If you could relate that to specific freedoms you feel you were denied that would be helpful.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 2:32 pm 

Freedom of choice. I never got to chose what subjects I wanted to learn and what teachers I wanted to learn them from. Also you have to go to a school around a district where you live in and you don't get to chose which one you want to go to. In addition to those things it's not a democracy it's a totalitarian environment where you just have to be quiet and do what you're told. All the assignments and projects you are assigned everyone else is assigned them too. A one size fits all environment as well (I like to call it one size fits none) some students learn better with different teaching styles and different techniques and to this day all the stupid standardized testing has meant absolutely nothing for me and my future.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 3:07 pm 

Freedom of choice. I never got to chose what subjects I wanted to learn and what teachers I wanted to learn them from. Also you have to go to a school around a district where you live in and you don't get to chose which one you want to go to. In addition to those things it's not a democracy it's a totalitarian environment where you just have to be quiet and do what you're told. All the assignments and projects you are assigned everyone else is assigned them too. A one size fits all environment as well (I like to call it one size fits none) some students learn better with different teaching styles and different techniques and to this day all the stupid standardized testing has meant absolutely nothing for me and my future.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Athena on February 16th, 2017, 4:37 pm 

Revolutionary » February 4th, 2017, 3:45 pm wrote:We never seem to learn about how we can stay happy when we grow up in the schools. Should there be classes on figuring out what makes you happy? Also when you figure that out how to live your adult life in a way that you can for the most part remain happy?



Absolutely! Then everyone would understand that our Declaration of Independence does mean the freedom to do anything we please when it says we have a "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". All would understand the connection between morality and liberty and that the pursuit of happiness means the pursuit of knowledge, and they would understand what this has to do with democracy and being responsible citizens with duties to family and country. Such knowledge would make a huge cultural difference and get our democracy back on track. And today, that would even be more valuable than in the past because of all the recent science that supports the ideals of this past philosophy that lead to replacing monarchies with democracy.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 4:42 pm 

@Athena so I take it that you agree. Good I'm trying to get more people like me thinking about these things so hopefully when our voices become loud enough it'll get people in power to listen.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Athena on February 16th, 2017, 4:42 pm 

Revolutionary » February 16th, 2017, 1:07 pm wrote:Freedom of choice. I never got to chose what subjects I wanted to learn and what teachers I wanted to learn them from. Also you have to go to a school around a district where you live in and you don't get to chose which one you want to go to. In addition to those things it's not a democracy it's a totalitarian environment where you just have to be quiet and do what you're told. All the assignments and projects you are assigned everyone else is assigned them too. A one size fits all environment as well (I like to call it one size fits none) some students learn better with different teaching styles and different techniques and to this day all the stupid standardized testing has meant absolutely nothing for me and my future.


Education in the US was not always like that. We did prepare everyone for independent thinking and well-rounded, individual growth before the 1958 National Defense Education Act replaced liberal education with education preparing everyone for the Military Industrial Complex, specializing individuals to fit into a mechanical society, like parts to the Star Trek Borg.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 4:48 pm 

So when who let these fascist scumbags take over the education system?
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Athena on February 16th, 2017, 5:14 pm 

zetreque » February 4th, 2017, 11:38 pm wrote:It's like we spend so much time in our lives going to school learning decent things like Math, Science, English, Art, Social Studies.

They teach us nothing about money.

Then we go to college to learn business (an extremely popular degree) where we have to learn how to chase the dollar to survive.

And while they teach us Business. We learn nothing of business ethics or environmental economics. The very things that protect our happiness and quality of life. Those things that mattered back in grade school.

meanwhile all the non-business majors suffer because they were never taught finances.

And then our teachers suffer (how many of you have heard more times than you can count a teacher complaining about how much money they make?) and when our teachers suffer, our education suffers.


Yes. early in life, I was greatly troubled by the fact that the US has a capitalist economy and nothing in grade school prepares the young to understand how capitalism works. Not only is this insane, but in a democracy, it is a terrible oversight!

However for teacher's concern about earning more. Forget it. No one should be working for the money. No one! Everyone should work for the love of the profession. It is shameful of professionals to think too much of what they earn. I remember when women were expected to care for everyone in the community without pay, because that was the right thing to do. After living such a life, no one will convince me people will not willing do what needs to be done because it is the right thing to do.

"The modern community recognizes five groups of leaders or professions. The five professions as they are known in every country of the world are the soldier, teacher, physician, lawyer and merchant. On certain occasions it is the duty of each of these professions to die for the community. "The soldier, rather leave his post in battle. The physician, rather than leave his post in a plague. The pastor, rather than teach falsehood. The lawyer, rather than countenance injustice. The merchant-what is his due occasion of death?"

The merchant, a term that Ruskin uses to refer to all who are engaged in any form of industrial pursuit, is ranked in the professional classes. He is constituted one of the leaders of the most vital of all functions- feeding, clothing and housing the community and providing for its welfare.

"Observe the merchant's function," Ruskin goes on to say, "is to provide the nation. It is no more his function to get profit for himself out of that provision than it is the clergyman's function to get his stipend." The leader of industry, like the leader of any other profession, must look upon himself as the servant of those people- called consumers- for whom the things that he produces are intended.

The merchant, therefore, appears in a wholly new role. He is proudest when he is able to do the most for those who are depending upon him for the necessities of life."


The quote comes from a 1916 book titled "Poverty and Riches" by Scott Nearing, Ph. D..
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 16th, 2017, 5:26 pm 

There should NEVER be any teacher teaching if he/she hates the job. I had that and it's very unfair to the students who are FORCED to be there. The teacher on the other hand had a choice.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Athena on February 16th, 2017, 5:32 pm 

Revolutionary » February 16th, 2017, 2:48 pm wrote:So when who let these fascist scumbags take over the education system?


That is very simple. It begins in the early days of education and those who could afford to do so, traveling the world to see what other countries were doing. Germany was focused on education for the advancement of technology for military and industrial purpose ever since the Prussians took control of Germany. Knowledge of what Prussians were doing with education was clearly spread in the US during the formative years of the US education when government took over the cause of educating children. William James speaks of the different purposes of England's, Germany's and US education in his 1899 book, "Talks to Teachers On Psychology: and to Students on Some of Life's Ideals".

When the US mobilized for war in 1917 there was concern in England and the US that these separate education systems had failed in such away that put these countries in a seriously threaten position, when Germany began invading European countries and conquering them in a very short time. At this time vocational training was added to public education for military reasons. This is was great benefit to everyone and the economy. However, education for citizenship remained the primary purpose of education in the US until 1958 when the Eisenhower administration, put the Military, Industrial Complex in place. We have prepared the young to as products for industry every since with huge social, economic and political ramifications. Everyone is now part of the Military Industrial Complex, what we defended our democracy against.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Athena on February 16th, 2017, 5:50 pm 

Revolutionary » February 16th, 2017, 3:26 pm wrote:There should NEVER be any teacher teaching if he/she hates the job. I had that and it's very unfair to the students who are FORCED to be there. The teacher on the other hand had a choice.


I was horrified by what I saw in a school when I was volunteering there. I reserve the "B" word for hateful females and one of the school staff was such a "B" to a young girl I reported it as abuse, along with another woman who meant well, but whose bad judgment seriously hurt a young man. I have tolerance for those who mean well but do badly, but the "B" was overdue for retirement. It was so obvious she didn't even like the children but was working for her retirement benefits. My intention of correcting problems resulted in me being dismissed. I was the outsider. You know the person who sees things the insiders don't see, and whose opinion is not wanted. Whatever, I could no longer work in that environment because I saw it as very destructive to the children who had trouble being cookie cutter "good students". Yes, that is what we get when money is the reason for working and not a love of the children, or for a doctor a love the medicine and curing people, or for the lawyer, a love of justice, or the journalist a sense of duty to protect the people with the truth and investigating things that matter.

The failure of our education system today is corruption in all the professions, and this leads to Enron and the economic collapse brought on by the money dealers, and the dismantling of our ability to govern ourselves, al la Trump. But now people are aware and alarmed, and hopefully, a well-written book will make an important difference.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 17th, 2017, 7:39 pm 

So what's an effective way to affect change in the system?
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby zetreque on February 18th, 2017, 12:04 am 

Revolutionary » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:39 pm wrote:So what's an effective way to affect change in the system?

Break the system so people have no choice and are forced to change.

Or

Get people involved so they feel like it's important to their survival and give them ownership over it because people are selfish egotisticals.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 18th, 2017, 12:26 am 

Or a little bit of both.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 18th, 2017, 12:30 am 

I created a reddit post to get this out to the masses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/educationrefor ... happiness/
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Eclogite on February 18th, 2017, 9:18 am 

zetreque » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:04 am wrote:
Revolutionary » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:39 pm wrote:So what's an effective way to affect change in the system?

Break the system so people have no choice and are forced to change.

Or

Get people involved so they feel like it's important to their survival and give them ownership over it because people are selfish egotisticals.

And avoid expressions such as "So when who let these fascist scumbags take over the education system?"

These will alienate you from a large body of the public who would otherwise agree with your aims, for those are words one would associate with an emotional, agenda driven, sophomoric, gullible fool.

You see what happens to acceptance of a message when you ramp up the rhetoric?
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 18th, 2017, 1:12 pm 

@eclogite good idea I have to be strategic about this not emotional.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Eclogite on February 18th, 2017, 2:13 pm 

Revolutionary » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:12 pm wrote:@eclogite good idea I have to be strategic about this not emotional.
Precisely. Politics has a bad name in some quarters, but politics is like diplomacy, the art of finding common ground, not grounds for conflict.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 18th, 2017, 2:27 pm 

Right. Everyone wants to live a happy successful life no matter where they come from or what they believe in. I can make myself into a symbol for those people.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Braininvat on February 18th, 2017, 2:29 pm 

There are problems when any single institution is somehow saddled with the expectation that core values of living will be imparted. Churches, people with funny hats and incense, are not going to give each individual grace, compassion, patience, charity, and all the attributes we commonly associate with spiritual growth. Nor can schools. In a way, sequestering the spiritual within a specific structure just allows people to compartmentalize and forget the life in all its variety is about spiritual growth. This growth shouldn't be corseted inside a religious context or an ideological one. Nor should it be mediated by science, a set of methods that are in themselves morally neutral.

I think memes are the way to go. "I stopped and talked to a homeless man today. I shared some food with him and offered him a little work, weeding my lawn." There's a meme. Absorb it, live it, then pass it along to everyone you come into contact with. Let it reproduce wildly and push out the negative memes (like "Screw those lazy bums. Cops should come and clear them all out."). Fight the selfishness and egotism that Zetreque mentioned.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Revolutionary on February 18th, 2017, 2:47 pm 

@Braininvat Well the thing is nobody forces you to go to church, mosque, or temple etc. On the other hand the government FORCES you to go to school. This is something done to you by force all for the promise of a decent career/job in the future if you do well. When they fail to deliver on that promise they blame to victim for "not being ambitious enough" or "that's life it's tough and the job market is a numbers game." I for one think that's nothing short of a scam and a mandatory legislative enforced scam. I think that if school is FORCING students to attend then students should have rights and if it's a place that young people are forced to go to, then in my opinion it should be a positive helpful place and not a place you dread going because you're going to get bored and/or stressed out.
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Re: Is there a science to happiness?

Postby Athena on February 21st, 2017, 11:47 am 

Revolutionary » February 17th, 2017, 5:39 pm wrote:So what's an effective way to affect change in the system?



Keep talking! Get as many people as you can to watch Michael Moore movies. "Where to Invade Next" is the best movie for education and prison reform. Learn more about the problems and solutions so you can talk about them.

I am sorry, but Christianity is a serious problem because it gives a false explanation of why we are less than perfect, and therefore, our reaction to wrongdoing or people who are different, is barbaric and ineffective at best. Very hurtful and destructive is also a possibility of Christian mythology. The Prussian/Christian system is also destructive to liberty and democracy.

Encourage the study of animal behaviors. Especially the more recent studies done with more sophisticated equipment, support the fact that democracy is natural and we are evolved animals, not specially made beings of mud- human- means moist soil, and after our creation, cursed because Eve ate the wrong fruit. The Christian mythology is deeply embedded in our culture, and we need to at least be aware of that.

Animals studies also teach us important things about learning. It is obvious the quality of the relationship between the learning animal and the teaching animal is very important. Good teachers instinctively know how to relate well with students, and the bad ones may have graduated with the highest scores, and be technologically correct, but fail to relate well with students.

Schools need to be personal. Columbine replaced the memory of Thurston High. My daughter attended Thurston High and fortunately dropped out before the shooting that took lives. Thurston was extremely impersonal and the staff held the opinion that teachers should not have to spend time on poor students. It was a very punishing environment for those students who were not in the top 10%. Stressing old values written in old books would correct this problem.
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