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doogles » August 14th, 2017, 5:49 am wrote:I agree with your opinion that “Language changes organically, not by edict”, up to the point where Eclogite made the point, correctly in my opinion, that usurped nations in the past have generally adopted the language of their conquerors.
I’m of the opinion that with the revolutionary improvements in communication over the last few decades, that we are slowly but surely becoming a global community, and that ‘organically’ (I like that choice of a word; it has connotations of primitively motivated and subconsciously chosen to the point where things just happen), we will gradually come to use one already established language over others as our second language (second to our culturally-established language at the time of birth).
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tt was strict fathers, encouraging mothers, mentoring grandparents and demanding teachers. They used to expect a lot more of children - and give them more credit - in Europe generally and eastern Europe particularly, than they did in the west. This, too, is why first generation immigrants outperform assimilated American students. Ever see photographs of Europeans before 1970? The 18-year-olds look like serious adults, while their north American counterparts look like kids.
Of course, that's coming back to economics: if you have the wherewithal to coddle your children, and fewer of them, you keep them dependent longer....
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My comment on the cognitive benefits of Hungarian was a bit tongue-in-cheek. In "My Fair Lady," as I recall, it was the Hungarian whose English was so good that it convinced Prof. Higgins that he must be foreign.
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Braininvat » August 10th, 2017, 3:27 pm wrote:The positives of a diverse multi-lingual planet seem to outweight the negatives, IMO. A planet with many languages has many ways to think about a particular question, issue, conundrum, whatever. "Darmok" was such a compelling episode of ST:NG because the contact with the Metaphor Talkers expanded the understanding of the Enterprise crew. It wasn't "Hey, this is stupid. Let's force them to learn English and shut up with all this '...and the walls fell' nonsense." Variety is the spice of life, and universe. How could travel be broadening and even mind-blowing if everywhere you went people spoke the same way and thought the same way? I think there is already a dangerous level of homogeneity on Earth, thanks to mass merchandising and the general spread of American media culture.
Maybe part of learning to get along with people who think differently from you is having such people still around, and doing their thinking with symbol systems other than English. There's also the well-documented relation between being bilingual and generally better academic performance and mastering of life skills.
In ecosystems, a monoculture usually brings about death (e.g. southern forests that have been turned into tree plantations, with accompanying massive species destruction). I think a parallel can be drawn to a human monoculture. Vive la difference.
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Serpent » August 14th, 2017, 11:11 am wrote:My comment on the cognitive benefits of Hungarian was a bit tongue-in-cheek. In "My Fair Lady," as I recall, it was the Hungarian whose English was so good that it convinced Prof. Higgins that he must be foreign.
I know you were kidding. Language and math aren't even processed the same way in the brain; many scientific/mathematical/geometric thinkers are inarticulate (why so many very bad math teachers), while some great writers and poets are innumerate.
One trait that might give Hungarians (and presumably other tribes with overlapping DNA) a slight edge in learning foreign languages is an ear for sound. And since music and math are closely related....
Heh - that theory doesn't even work in my family. My cousin's outgoing musical wife picked up English apparently without effort, while he struggled with word-lists, grammar rules and a morbid fear of making mistakes. I suspect it's far more a psychological phenomenon than a question of wiring or custom. In my teaching experience, it's easier for the extroverted - who are probably also more eager to communicate.
Too many people hate Russians. A simplified Chinese might transcribe to the Latin alphabet...
Well, let's get those typhoons under control first.
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Serpent » August 13th, 2017, 12:47 pm wrote:You know why so many Hungarian mathematicians? They're poor. Poles, too, btw, and Russians - whose languages are not even similar. Because you don't need laboratory or scientific equipment (the physicists went to America); all you need is a pencil and a marble-topped cafe table. It is a legend of Banach https://www.britannica.com/biography/Stefan-Banach that two graduate students followed him around to copy down his idle scribbles before the waiter could wipe them off.
Also, of course, there is advanced education, but no lucrative careers to syphon off the brightest: they might as well follow their passion.
Naw, it's neither language nor money. Or wasn't - I don't know the situation at present.
I t was strict fathers, encouraging mothers, mentoring grandparents and demanding teachers. They used to expect a lot more of children - and give them more credit - in Europe generally and eastern Europe particularly, than they did in the west. This, too, is why first generation immigrants outperform assimilated American students. Ever see photographs of Europeans before 1970? The 18-year-olds look like serious adults, while their north American counterparts look like kids.
Of course, that's coming back to economics: if you have the wherewithal to coddle your children, and fewer of them, you keep them dependent longer. And if industry doesn't require fresh supplies of labour, the entire nation keeps its offspring out of competition for jobs as long as possible. And if the youth and its parents and grandparents have disposable income, the advertising industry invents whole new species and subspecies of market to target.
As to the phonetic spelling, there is a poster on one forum I used to attend who uses that system exclusively. It's cute the first time, but soon grows incredibly annoying.
The Vanishing American Adult: Our Coming-of-Age Crisis--and How to ...
https://www.amazon.com/Vanishing-Americ ... 1250114403
The Vanishing American Adult and over one million other books are .... Sasse diagnoses the causes of a generation that can't grow up and offers a path .... our kids (and ourselves) as we watch devices suck up increasing amounts of .... Ben Sasse is not a typical politician, and he says explicitly that this is not a policy book.
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Athena » August 14th, 2017, 12:24 pm wrote:Hating Russians or any other nationality is ignorant.
I think women around the world, might agree about the disparity of power and concern for children. Maybe it isn't our language that matters, but also what we think is important?
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Serpent » August 14th, 2017, 12:03 pm wrote:Maybe so, but you'll have to wait a generation or two to erase the memory of oppression and brutality - which hasn't ended everywhere. And I'm not at all sure you'll ever convince Americans to stop hating their traditional enemies. How likely are they to learn German?
How will you discuss these problems with women around the world?
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By Grabthar's hammer, by the suns of Worvan, you shall be avenged.
Athena --- If enough people learned and used a universal language and it conveyed some kind of important information, there would be more motive to learn it. But before it would be very useful, information we want would have to be translated into the new language. Just speaking to a person with another language isn't good enough motive unless there is something really special about that person.
find a forum focused on women's issues that is international.
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Isn't that intrinsically divisive?Athena » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:51 pm wrote:If women everywhere shared the same language we would gain the strength of union. We might not send armies to help each other, but I can see a group of activist women flying around the world and scolding those who need to change their ways. Laugh
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Eclogite » August 16th, 2017, 6:02 am wrote:Isn't that intrinsically divisive?Athena » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:51 pm wrote:If women everywhere shared the same language we would gain the strength of union. We might not send armies to help each other, but I can see a group of activist women flying around the world and scolding those who need to change their ways. Laugh
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Of women from men. I don't approve of Men only golf clubs. I don't see why I should approve of Athena's Amazon Army.Serpent » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:42 pm wrote:Eclogite » August 16th, 2017, 6:02 am wrote:Isn't that intrinsically divisive?Athena » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:51 pm wrote:If women everywhere shared the same language we would gain the strength of union. We might not send armies to help each other, but I can see a group of activist women flying around the world and scolding those who need to change their ways. Laugh
Of what from whom?
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Eclogite » August 16th, 2017, 11:36 am wrote:[division]Of women from men.
I don't approve of Men only golf clubs. I don't see why I should approve of Athena's Amazon Army.
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And you think introducing further division makes this better?Serpent » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:11 pm wrote:Eclogite » August 16th, 2017, 11:36 am wrote:[division]Of women from men.
At least half the women of the world are already segregated by edict of their male masters.
She did not characterise those she was reaching out to as "oppressed sisters". She appeared to be focused on the protection and development of children.Serpent » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:11 pm wrote: Liberated women reaching out to their oppressed sisters does not add to the division that already exists.
Not all confidence is well placed.Serpent » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:11 pm wrote:I'm pretty sure they wouldn't exclude liberated men from any discussion of how to rescue children from starvation or induction into armies, or reject any help from sympathetic men in securing a better future.
I was providing context for my position.Serpent » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:11 pm wrote:I don't approve of Men only golf clubs. I don't see why I should approve of Athena's Amazon Army.
Nobody said you should.
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