irony, humor and dissociation

[neuro]

How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable seem to me all the uses of this world! ...

Eric Kandel's classical Neuroscience textbook used to introduce the chapter on Major Depression and Bipolar Spectrum Diseases (they weren't called this way at the time), with this citation from Shakespeare's Hamlet (or possibly another similar one).

I have always considered this a particularly clever introduction because it guides the student in neuroscience to realize that psychiatric diseases are not characterized by particularly absurd emotional, mood, or cognitive attitudes and/or reactions.

What characterizes "psychoses" is that such attitudes and reactions are not temporary and caused, but are persistent, uncaused, pervasive, particularly intense and source of suffering and disability.

Actually, whether Hamlet was psychotic - major or bipolar depression? - or not is difficult to say, today (we do not even know whether prozac might have prevented the tragedy). In any case, his words could well be said by anybody (I mean, anybody possessing the poetic skills of the Bard) who is suffering of a reactive depression because of a loss, the death of a dear person or the runaway of his girlfriend. With no pathology.

Now, just think of whatever you can imagine a schizophrenic may say or do: wouldn't that make you laugh, if they only added, one moment after, "just kidding"...

And if anybody were to think you are serious, when you are joking, they would think you are crazy, except they might find the whole thing even more humorous the moment they realize you were indeed joking.

Irony and humor do create a tension, because they imply an unusual (inconsistent) way of looking at things, they play with paradox, or they may simply rely on the inconsistent use of an expression, an emotion, a tone, a kind of language, which is inappropriate to the situation.

And the relief of such tension - when we realize it is not "true" (or the guy was not really serious about that) - is a particularly pleasurable feeling.

Now imagine that same tension - something inconsistent in how you perceive the world, your own emotions, your sensations and feelings, your body, your thoughts - but nobody who says "just kidding", and you have a faint idea about what dissociation - and schizophrenia - may feel like.

Still, again, that sensation of inconsistency is there in irony and humor, is there when you let your fantasy fly free, when you are drowsy, when you dream: everything and the opposite of everything may be true, you can see yourself from the outside and in the mean time feel that the person you see there is you...

And in general all this is enjoyable.
How is so?
The question is that when the judgment of reality is released, inconsistency is no more a pain. It may even be a relief, it is a kind of an interlude, recreation time from the hard job of living...

But until you release that judgment, tension builds up. And when you finally realize the guy is just joking, you laugh and enjoy it.

Well, the problem in psychosis is nobody is joking.

[Serpent]

I like that explanation, and that perspective.
Shakespeare was, indeed, a superb psychologist, long before the discipline was standardized and codified (though it had been practiced since the dawn of humankind). He was particularly acute in delineating madness [permanent mental disturbance - King Lear; Lady Macbeth] from a temporary hypersensitive state brought on by outside stimuli (Hamlet, Othello), attributing causation and showing progressive loss of control.

I think the crux of the matter, for most of us, is control. Whether we're dreaming, inventing fictional worlds, making art, projecting thought experiments, joking or undergoing some chemical hallucination, there is relief in knowing that the effect is temporary - that we can regain control. Even to imagine permanent loss of control is terrifying.

[owleye]

I once followed a discussion, having little to contribute myself, on the topic of irony where much of the discussion centered around its having any existence at all. Perhaps the reason these "philosophers" (about whom Shakespeare opined rather harshly) had so much trouble with it is due their reliance on rationality, wherein such concepts as "just kidding" don't make sense. It was also reminiscent of those who value science above all, on the basis of there being no meaning to that which in the end cannot be observed, theoretical objects notwithstanding. (They would rule out the Freudian triad but keep the behaviorists.)

Thus, with new insights into what makes us human, neurologically, perhaps its time to reconsider the topic of what's meaningful, from a scientific perspective.

James

[Percarus]

Serpent: I think the crux of the matter, for most of us, is control. Whether we're dreaming, inventing fictional worlds, making art, projecting thought experiments, joking or undergoing some chemical hallucination, there is relief in knowing that the effect is temporary - that we can regain control. Even to imagine permanent loss of control is terrifying.

I agree, it is important to have control in all aspects of life for failure to do so could lead to insanity, a fate comparable to hell. Imagining loss of control can be terrifying but certain aspects cannot just be controlled. For instance, dreaming is not something we can control but it is something we can influence if we are inventive enough. Oh, and ‘Serpent’, on your post you mentioned that Shakespeare was a superb psychologist – where did you get such info? Or did you just derive that notion from his exquisite works? No matter, back in regards to ‘control’, I believe the very basis of irony in our real lives impedes our quest for control. Humour as well, we have no control over what makes us laugh, we just laugh when something connects with our mental mind frame. I would hate the thought of finding whatever childish joke funny as that would be an infringement on my self control. Dissociation in behaviour when in social situations is something I also regard as horrific. I believe when man is stripped of his ability to communicate he/she is stripping themselves of one of the most fundamental characteristics that allow society to grow and prosper. Fortunately we are not living in the stone ages anymore and we pretty much have medications for every condition, including dissociation disorder.

neuro: Now, just think of whatever you can imagine a schizophrenic may say or do: wouldn't that make you laugh, if they only added, one moment after, "just kidding"...

Ok… You see, I agree, at first it is kind of funny. I have some schizophrenic friends who have in the past said the ‘just kidding’ excuse, but the matter remains that they are not just kidding, instead they just become conscious of the fact that they lost their control and hence they look for a way out to save them from embarrassment.

neuro: Irony and humour do create a tension, because they imply an unusual (inconsistent) way of looking at things, they play with paradox, or they may simply rely on the inconsistent use of an expression, an emotion, a tone, a kind of language, which is inappropriate to the situation.

I do not see how ‘irony’ or ‘humour’ create tension/strain. Sure, if you are talking about Shakespearean poetry the tension is created within the characters to a vast audience. I would argue that humour in fact generally relieves tension instead of causing it. Now, on the aspects of humour… I am not exactly I know how to define that term in words. What is it that clicks in our brain that makes us find something funny or amusing? Are we conditioned for humour by cultural society – I doubt it since I seem to recall that Chimpanzees also laugh from time to time. Heck, why the hell do we laugh? Is there something greater in existence that compels us to laugh from time to time? Oh boy, I am grateful either way.

neuro: Still, again, that sensation of inconsistency is there in irony and humour, is there when you let your fantasy fly free, when you are drowsy, when you dream: everything and the opposite of everything may be true, you can see yourself from the outside and in the mean time feel that the person you see there is you...

I never contemplate that deeply when I let my wander – not in the sense that highlights me as that central person or pivotal character. I think I understand what you mean by inconsistency in irony and humour but it is a bit hard to understand what you mean by the way you phrase it. I do not see any linkage between irony/humour in regards to dissociation unless what you mean corresponds to the very nature and existence of a schizophrenic individual. I think that is what you are talking about…