Parrots use stone tools

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Parrots use stone tools

Postby Marshall on December 15th, 2015, 10:11 pm 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... pplements/

Parrots were seen using pebbles to grind calcium-rich powder off sea shells. The parrot then licks the powder off the pebble.

These parrots are also said to have an interesting sexual arrangement we might call a
ménage à quatre.
Some of them form foursomes consisting of two males and two females.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Serpent on December 16th, 2015, 1:12 am 

Cool!
The more we look around, the less unique we are.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby zetreque on December 17th, 2015, 7:03 pm 

I saw this news too. Maybe parrots are the next dominant species?
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Braininvat on December 17th, 2015, 7:46 pm 

Some of them form foursomes consisting of two males and two females.



Polly-gamy.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby neuro on December 21st, 2015, 5:10 pm 

Serpent » December 16th, 2015, 6:12 am wrote:Cool!
The more we look around, the less unique we are.

In that they make fousomes or in that they use tools?
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby zetreque on December 23rd, 2015, 12:27 am 

A little more well know, but related

Wild crows filmed making and using hooked tools.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Serpent on December 23rd, 2015, 12:36 am 

zetreque » December 17th, 2015, 6:03 pm wrote:I saw this news too. Maybe parrots are the next dominant species?

No, that'll be rats if there is any decent ecology left; otherwise, cockroaches. Intelligence is not enough: the dominant species has to be hardy, omnivorous, adaptable and aggressive.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby zetreque on December 23rd, 2015, 12:38 am 

Serpent » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:36 pm wrote: the dominant species has to be hardy, omnivorous, adaptable and aggressive.


My vote is for Raccoons. Bipedal Racoons.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Serpent on December 23rd, 2015, 12:41 am 

neuro » December 21st, 2015, 4:10 pm wrote:
Serpent » December 16th, 2015, 6:12 am wrote:Cool!
The more we look around, the less unique we are.

In that they make fousomes or in that they use tools?

Neither. A lot of species used tools before us; a lot of species had language, family and social structures. We may have been the first - and only - species to use fire, but we can't be entirely sure, even of that.

I used to root for raccoons, too - clever, gregarious, adaptable, possessed of opposable thumbs - and damned entertaining (which is probably not a requirement for survival, except around my house).
They may yet make it to the finals.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Braininvat on December 23rd, 2015, 10:26 am 

Serpent, what other species could have had fire?
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Eclogite on December 23rd, 2015, 11:13 am 

Braininvat » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:26 am wrote:Serpent, what other species could have had fire?
I had a sudden image of a small group of bipedal, theropod dinosaurs sitting round a campfire in the evening, having discovered how to make and control fire a generation or two earlier. "What's that bright light on the horizon?" asks one, as the first evidence of the Yucatan impact comes to their attention.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby vivian maxine on December 23rd, 2015, 11:22 am 

Eclogite » December 23rd, 2015, 10:13 am wrote:
Braininvat » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:26 am wrote:Serpent, what other species could have had fire?
I had a sudden image of a small group of bipedal, theropod dinosaurs sitting round a campfire in the evening, having discovered how to make and control fire a generation or two earlier. "What's that bright light on the horizon?" asks one, as the first evidence of the Yucatan impact comes to their attention.


Was it in Yucatan? I knew it was in Mexico. Wasn't sure where.

Biv how about monkeys, gorillas, chimpanzees sitting around striking rocks together to a rhythm and suddwnly making fire? Could be? Could be they taught us - much as the natives taught us how to grow corn and potatoes?

Never know. :-)
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Eclogite on December 23rd, 2015, 1:19 pm 

The Chicxulub impact crater lies on the northern edge of the Yucatan peninsula.

As to apes' inherent ability to handle fire, there is this.
Kanzi the bonobo lights fire.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby zetreque on December 23rd, 2015, 1:20 pm 

Eclogite » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:13 am wrote:
Braininvat » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:26 am wrote:Serpent, what other species could have had fire?
I had a sudden image of a small group of bipedal, theropod dinosaurs sitting round a campfire in the evening, having discovered how to make and control fire a generation or two earlier. "What's that bright light on the horizon?" asks one, as the first evidence of the Yucatan impact comes to their attention.


There is a star trek voyager episode where they discovered dinosaurs in the Delta quadrant who evolved and escaped Earth before the KT boundary. It's called "Distant Origins".
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby vivian maxine on December 23rd, 2015, 1:31 pm 

Nothing surprises us?
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Serpent on December 23rd, 2015, 4:44 pm 

I don't suppose any other species has learned to make or control fire. But I can't rule out the possibility that some carnivore or omnivore discovered that food is free and tasty after a fire. I can't rule out the possibility of something rat-like or fox-like deliberately seeking out a lightning-struck tree, or following the retreating edge of a grass fire, to pick up the casualties.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby weakmagneto on December 24th, 2015, 8:26 am 

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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Marshall on December 24th, 2015, 1:20 pm 

Hey Magneto, nice to see you!
the YouTube you linked to has links to clips of other (remarkable) chimp behavior as well.

Crows using hooked stick tools was mentioned earlier in this thread
this article has some interesting additional information and images.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spe ... ing-tools/

In order to document tool use by crows in the wild (instead of just in captivity) they used very small light cameras that could be attached to a crow's feather, letting the crow go on about its ordinary wild crow business.
there is a picture of one of these miniature cameras mounted on a tail feather.

they got footage of crows fashioning hooked stick tools, using the tools, storing them, retrieving them and so forth.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Marshall on December 24th, 2015, 1:46 pm 

Eclogite » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:19 am wrote:The Chicxulub impact crater lies on the northern edge of the Yucatan peninsula.

As to apes' inherent ability to handle fire, there is this.
Kanzi the bonobo lights fire.


This footage of Kanzi amazed me. Showed him getting wood for the fire, breaking up the sticks, lighting the fire, getting a stick to put a marshmallow on, toasting the marshmallow and so forth. He was getting some prompting from his human companion---there had obviously been some prior training but still...
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Serpent on December 24th, 2015, 9:01 pm 

What animals can learn from other animals is astonishing in its breadth, variety and deviation from the animal's behaviour in its natural habitat. Not only do our pets and lab subjects learn from us, but our children (and sometimes adults, too) can learn from other species.
This would lead one to believe that ours is not the only brain with a capacity for thought far beyond instinct. In fact, far from unique, we are ... normal for the planet.
That's not a bad thing, is it? Once we give up the chosen-species idea, it's rather comforting.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Natural ChemE on December 25th, 2015, 1:38 am 

Reference -

Tool use by animals, Wikipedia, has a compilation.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Marshall on December 25th, 2015, 3:23 am 

Natural ChemE » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:38 pm wrote:Reference -

Tool use by animals, Wikipedia, has a compilation.

Interesting compilation--well worth a look! Many different kinds of animal and types of behavior.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Forest_Dump on December 26th, 2015, 5:59 pm 

weakmagneto wrote:Chimp using AK47


Definitely one of my favorites
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Paralith on December 28th, 2015, 6:04 pm 

weakmagneto wrote:Chimp using AK47
https://youtu.be/Jt3aLev041E


We're all aware this is fake, right? I'm just checking.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Eclogite on December 28th, 2015, 7:27 pm 

Paralith » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:04 pm wrote:
We're all aware this is fake, right? I'm just checking.
No, I think that is a real AK47. :)
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Marshall on December 28th, 2015, 8:07 pm 

Paralith » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:04 pm wrote:
weakmagneto wrote:Chimp using AK47
https://youtu.be/Jt3aLev041E


We're all aware this is fake, right? I'm just checking.


I'm not aware either way--I'm puzzled. Could they have loaded the AK47 with BLANKS? And then staged the episode. In many ways it looks genuine---the detail that doesn't fit (for me) is the calm of the camera operator.
The cameraman doesn't seem to lurch, dive for cover, run away---he(she)stays cool, steady, recording the event thru to conclusion.
As I imagine it, the only way the cameraman could have stayed cool and steady would be if he(she) knows that
(1) the rifle is loaded with blanks only
or
(2) the rifle is not loaded and the sound was to be added later.

PARALITH, you have experience with primates, how do you think the clip was made? If it was staged, how do you imagine that was done?
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby zetreque on December 28th, 2015, 9:21 pm 

That would be easy to fake.
The dust from the bullets hitting the ground looks the most fake to me. Like an after effect. The ground is damp but the dust looks like smoke. Sound is really easy to fake.

I totally agree about the camera man, and when videos have lots of rapid movement it's easy to fake cuts between clips and things like the kick of the gun.

The best part is the acting when he holds the gun up and turns around.

Funny tho.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Braininvat on December 28th, 2015, 9:29 pm 

The insufficient recoil is also telling.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby zetreque on December 28th, 2015, 9:34 pm 

Also notice the reeds are blowing in the wind at the end, they are not blowing in the beginning. That hints the ending was filmed at a later time. The sky is lightened to hide the difference in clouds possibly. The color of the gun looks slightly darker when he is shooting it, but that could be just me.

Always be suspicious of that kind of jerky camera movement.
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Re: Parrots use stone tools

Postby Paralith on December 29th, 2015, 3:03 pm 

Marshall, it was a piece of viral video marketing for the latest Planet of the Apes movie. That is a CGI chimpanzee.

It is possible to train a young chimpanzee (the one depicted in the video looks like it would be around ten years old or less) to swing around an object like an AK-47, and you could probably even train one to pull the trigger and slowly accustom him/her to the loud sound and recoil. But the latest Planet of the Apes movies are champions in using CGI apes instead of live apes, the use of which is highly unethical.

Only juveniles are small enough to handle with a reliable degree of safety, and to train them for entertainment requires taking them away from their mothers and for the most part away from other apes, and they certainly don't get to experience anything like a natural social group. As soon as they mature and get too big and strong, they have to be gotten rid of, and many ex-entertainment apes have ended up in tiny roadside zoos living under atrocious and lonely conditions. Introducing them to the social group that they sorely need is also difficult, since they weren't raised in a social group and don't really know how to interact with other apes.
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