Tyranny by the Majority

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Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 1st, 2016, 5:53 pm 

I am furious. Why?

Around 2008, I invested over $6,000.00 dollars in landscaping. New Lawn, timed Sprinkler System and removal of dead Trees. A few years back, SoCal started facing a severe Drought. All residents received a notification that we must reduce our water consumption for irrigation by 50% or face heavy fines. They required everyone to water on alternate nights instead of every night. Violation of said schedule would result in heavy fines (if you water on a night that is not allowed by your address) Simply doubling the amount of water on valid nights doesn't cut it, as it would result in no decrease in actual water usage.

So, I had to watch my investment wither up and die (dry?).
So now, virtually every front yard looks like an abandoned field minus the weeds. You can see dirt/soil in many places. Every house looks this way.

So why am I mad, you may ask?

I just got (as I assume everyone else has) a notification from the city that I must increase my irrigation to restore my lawn to health or face a $1000 dollar per day fine until I comply. Or I can use an alternate form of dirt cover costing between $3.50 to $15 dollars per square foot. Thus investment would range from $1500 to $6000 approx. Most of my neighborhood is Senior Citizens, like myself, with many on limited Social Security incomes, barely adequate for survival. So alternative landscaping ranges from painful to impossible.

Technically, dead lawns is the norm, so the Majority are actually conformed to each other. The city wants to attract more buyers into the area and improve business viability. Therefore, they must resist the appearance of neighborhoods that appear to be trending towards slums. The houses all look nice but bare dirt is offensive to many people. The city wants bare dirt outlawed... during a Drought. And we must foot the bill to conform to some ideal that is basically irrational opinion of some remote majority.

"Dirt is Ugly"?

Now, if some leaves from one of my trees should blow on my neighbors yard, I can see him asking me politely to rake them up, which I would happily do. But the Draconian Tone of the Notice to increase my irrigation (or else!) just further exasperates me. The city can't afford to foot the bill so it resorts to Authority and Threats. They would claim their Authority stems from Majority Opinion while the Majority of front yards is exposed dirt/soil (not by choice).

How do you fight City Hall?

I might also mention that the value of a persons home/property is based on a set of standards and thus the value of the homes affected (all) have dropped in value with a resulting decrease in taxes paid to the city. I have to wonder if this figures into their incentive to attack its citizens.

Anyway, Authority comes from Majority.. so I must wonder if they are not over stepping their bounds? Given the Majority of homes have dead or dying front yards.

Right now.. my plan is to issue a notification to the Water Authorities that I can no longer comply with their demand for reduction of water consumption by reduced irrigation levels due to direct threats of local city Authority.

I thought of addressing the city counsel with a formal complaint, but the Authority of Law is on their side, so I would be wasting my breath. You can't argue with Authority. You need more!

Other than that, the only other recourse is to help organize a peaceful march on City Hall with demands for their rational behavior. Hope that doesn't get out hand and result in a riot with folks getting killed by the enforcers of said Authority.

Any other suggestions leading to a way out of this insanity would be much appreciated.

Ps. I'm moving somewhere else soon.. as soon as I can complete certain obligations that is keeping me local to this area. Perhaps Colorado, with a higher tolerance for weed..lol.

Best Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Braininvat on October 1st, 2016, 6:38 pm 

I like the peaceful demonstration option. City council....you elect them, right? Make them aware what happens to their reelection chances if this outrage continues. Any responsibile council would promote xeriscaping....you all live in a desert, right? There's simply not enough water in that climate to have the sort of lawn that would be easy in Maine. There are places in eastern Colorado and New Mexico now where rural people have wells go bone dry....they have to haul tanks of water out to their property, to have water to drink and take very brief showers and that's it. A rock garden could be pretty, mixed with cacti and succulents and other water-miser groundcovers. Also, don't underestimate power of making a complaint at a council meeting. You might discover you've got the audience on your side, others might speak up.

I don't see how they can enforce this. Are there really lawn police in sufficient numbers to track what everyone does? If so, Cali is even crazier than I thought! :-)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Serpent on October 1st, 2016, 7:17 pm 

I spent a few month in a 4-bedroom house in Aneheim Hills, rented for 2 people with no furniture, by the contractor that recruited us in Canada (who never actually got the job done but wasted a whack of LA's money). All of our neighbours had lovely gardens with water-features and swimming pools. The sprinkler came on automatically from 6 to 7am daily; the yard maintenance team came on Thursday mornings; the pool-man came every second week to put more bleach in the picturesque fake spring that the dogs weren't allowed to drink from.
Walked two blocks down our steep street to the park, big open field, flowerbeds and trees, across from the library with its velvet lawn and flowering shrubs; a pleasant meandering road to the shopping plaza with lush grass verges and pepper trees alongside.
Walked up half a block to the top of the hill where the houses ended: sand, rock, odd clumps of coarse grey mesquite grass, crooked little bare ironwood trunks. Desert.
We just stared in disbelief: Don't they know?
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby BadgerJelly on October 2nd, 2016, 7:20 am 

You live in America?

Sue them
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby vivian maxine on October 2nd, 2016, 9:32 am 

Dave, send them to Petaluma for lessons in how it is done. That city is coming to homes to help plan attractive yards that will not need so much water - if any. They are then giving coupons to residents who need help in paying for the upgrading (right word?). The coupons allow the residents to go to a certain dealer nearby and pick up items that they need to refurbish their yards: prairie type grasses, statues, anything suitable to an arid yard. My friend who lives in Petaluma was one of the lucky ones. She still had the expense of hiring a yard man to help her with the heavy work but she now has a lovely yard and never has to water.

P. S. I'm sure that doesn't include green grass, unfortunately. :-(
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 2nd, 2016, 5:21 pm 

Thanks Vivian,

San Bernardino filed for Bankruptcy in 2012, it is still ongoing in courts. When the plan to improve the looks of the neighborhoods went into effect, help was offered. The response overwhelmed the resources and the offer was rescinded.

Ever hear of the Frog and pan of boiling water? If you toss a frog into boiling water, it will jump out. But put the frog into the pan first and bring to a slow boil, the frog will croak instead.

The same seems to be happening here. If the city tried to enforce code on everyone at the same time, the outcry would have been huge. But doing one street per month prevents a major disturbance. It's easier if one prevents a Mob reaction. Most folks around here are old and retired. They don't want to fight and storm the castle.

I'm betting I would need permission for a protest march.. think they will give it to me?

A petition might work.. but that is a lot of time, effort and money. I suppose the best solution is to give up our back yards and reroute that water to the front yards. I hate to sacrifice (my lawn is withered but not dead yet) my back yard, but I doubt I would be the first forced into that choice. Means I will have to replant my back yard before I can sell my house someday.

My more immediate need is towards the roof of my house.. the roof leaks but because it rarely rains, not a major issue until I sell. So where to move to? Seattle seems very nice, I spent a week there awhile back on a project. The only place where Tap water tastes like Bottled water.. in my various work related travels. It's close to the ocean, so it doesn't get much (if any) snow.. which I want to avoid as much as this drought.

I have to wonder if this drought is the tip of the iceberg in regards to global warming? A recent Science article says we have passed the critical threshold for carbon in the air and our fate will be like that of Venus. Glad I won't be around long enough to see this become super serious and one of the reasons I never had kids. They will inherit our mess.

Later and best wishes,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Natural ChemE on October 2nd, 2016, 7:57 pm 

Dave_Oblad » October 2nd, 2016, 4:21 pm wrote:I have to wonder if this drought is the tip of the iceberg in regards to global warming? A recent Science article says we have passed the critical threshold for carbon in the air and our fate will be like that of Venus.

Global warming should make stuff wetter.

Since global warming's just starting to pick up (Earth Temperature Timeline, xkcd), the effect's not been too noticeable, though some researchers claim that the increase in precipitation's observable:
Global warming already driving increases in rainfall extremes, Nature News (2016-03-07) wrote:Get ready for rain: climate change is already driving an increase in extremes of rainfall and snowfall across most of the globe, even in arid regions. And this trend will continue as the world warms, researchers report today in Nature Climate Change.

The role of global warming in unusually large rainfall events in countries from the United Kingdom to China has been hotly debated. But the latest study shows that climate change is driving an overall increase in rainfall extremes1.

“In both wet and dry regions, we see these significant and robust increases in heavy precipitation,” says Markus Donat, a climate scientist at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, who is the study’s lead author.

Not so dry
Warm air holds more moisture, and previous research has found that global warming is already increasing the odds of extreme precipitation events. But climate models typically differ as to how that might play out at regional scales. Some models suggest that dry areas could become drier, but the new findings confirm that this rule does not hold over land; some areas see declines, but most get wetter.

'course I'm dodging the public policy issue with regards to the yard maintenance. That just seems like an unpleasant situation to have to deal with!
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Serpent on October 2nd, 2016, 9:35 pm 

Global warming may bring more rain - but not always where we need it or want it.
Meanwhile:
https://www.houselogic.com/by-room/yard-patio/lawn-paint-keeps-grass-green/
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Braininvat on October 2nd, 2016, 9:43 pm 

Dave, as per my post, I was curious as to your thoughts on xeriscaping. If the city doesn't have to spend future funds on water sources and new pumping and treatment stations, by means of helping pay for residents to xeriscape and thereby greatly reduce water needs, then there might be more political momentum that direction. Spend money to save money? If city councils don't grasp that concept, then they are braindead and need replacement.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 3rd, 2016, 6:02 am 

Hi Biv,

Actually, I like the idea because a neighborhood that looks good raises the value of the homes in that neighborhood and, since I intend to sell my home soon, added neighborhood value will increase my asking price for my home.. I make more money.. yippee!

What I don't like is being the "rope" in a tug-of-war between city and state Authorities. I also don't like being threatened by Authority. I don't like Bullies, which they are. If their notification showed any inclination towards sympathy or understanding of our predicaments, I might not feel so reactionary and hostile. A bit of sugar could help a lot. But: "You will comply by this date or face a fine of $1000.00 per day and maybe a lien on your house".. just doesn't cut it with me.

Both Authorities used the same tactic.. not unlike having to pay protection money to the local mob. That's what it feels like. I hate abuse of power.

It's not like I have a hole in my walkway posing a danger to pedestrians.. It's a beautification campaign. What happens when they don't like the color of my house or the old car I drive? Or even the color of the people living in my neighborhood? My previous neighborhood had an issue with TV Antenna's visible on the roofs, forcing us to switch from Free TV to Cable (pay TV).

Personally, I'd like to knock down my house and replace it with a Geodesic Dome style house.. just to make the point that Enforced Conformity should not be allowed. It's a bad path to walk and why I enjoy seeing a person in public with Green Hair.. non-conformists.. taking a stand.

Conformity is basically an irrational mental illness in my opinion. It is just a small step away from Racism or Anti-Gay movements. Such enforcement is the very antithesis of Human Freedom.

Anyway, I made my decision to sacrifice my Back Yard so the visible Front Yard looks better. I hate it.. but don't see another affordable choice. Note: I live right on top of the San Andreas fault line, so the sooner I move, the safer I will be.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box for now.. have to go to bed.

Best wishes and thanks all,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Braininvat on October 3rd, 2016, 10:10 am 

They really do sound like mobsters. Bullies. Thugs with a ridiculous ordinance on their side.

Have you considered calling the LA Times and talking to a reporter. This seems like a juicy story of government thuggery (and cruel treatment of older folks on fixed incomes) that the paper might be interested in covering.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Braininvat on October 3rd, 2016, 11:56 am 

http://www.vvdailypress.com/article/20140807/news/140809851


“We received the water conservation notices from the state and county,” said SVL Association General Manager Glenn Grabiec. “I really don’t know what they’re going to do to enforce the watering regulations.”

Grabiec said the association is doing all it can to help the residents during this emergency conservation period.

The governor has also implemented an executive order prohibiting homeowner associations from fining residents as it relates to water conservation issues,” Grabiec said. “We’re still enforcing our own regulations when it comes to the growth of bushes, weeds, trees and other vegetation. So a brown lawn is fine.”


(boldface mine)

Maybe you should contact someone in Sacramento?
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby SciameriKen on October 3rd, 2016, 11:56 am 

You are spot on in your assessment of this situation and I'm sorry to hear it! Its one thing if you are in a private community, but this is local government! Is maintaining property value even an item on the list of responsibilities? Would they need a specific law to cite against you? If so when was the law enacted - before you moved in?

I like Vivian's suggestion - some drought tolerant prairie grasses -- or maybe Dandelions? Those things seem impossible to kill and if you mow them down they can look like grass :)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby vivian maxine on October 3rd, 2016, 12:10 pm 

SciameriKen » October 3rd, 2016, 10:56 am wrote:You are spot on in your assessment of this situation and I'm sorry to hear it! Its one thing if you are in a private community, but this is local government! Is maintaining property value even an item on the list of responsibilities? Would they need a specific law to cite against you? If so when was the law enacted - before you moved in?

I like Vivian's suggestion - some drought tolerant prairie grasses -- or maybe Dandelions? Those things seem impossible to kill and if you mow them down they can look like grass :)


Oh! I'd go for dandelions! Lovely flower. Grass can need extra coaxing to grow well around most of the limestone-based Ozarks. When I lived there, many people were planting one particular grass that they said tolerated summer drought well. Its only problem was that it browned up earlier in the fall. I do not remember the name. Only remember that, when we had heat and drought, it would be a good green when all the other grasses were burning up and brown. I don't know how it would do in California, though. We have a lot of underground water here which no doubt explains Mark Twain National Forest. Makes a difference.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 3rd, 2016, 3:47 pm 

Thanks Biv,

I'll look into that aspect soon.. not sure if City Authority is covered under this State umbrella.

Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby vivian maxine on October 3rd, 2016, 4:24 pm 

Dave_Oblad » October 3rd, 2016, 2:47 pm wrote:Thanks Biv,

I'll look into that aspect soon.. not sure if City Authority is covered under this State umbrella.

Regards,
Dave :^)


Might be, Dave. Surely is here. The city of Saint Louis wanted to establish a minimum wage of $15. State told them they didn't have that authority. Keep hoping.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby BadgerJelly on October 4th, 2016, 6:08 am 

Do you know any lawyers? I am what they are demanding, or the way they are doing it, can be interpreted as illegal in some way. Most organisations act like bullies simply because they know how to fool the general public into thinking they can do nothing to stop them.

What they are doing may not be illegal, but it may not be legit either and they are just hoping to dupe residences into action rather than having to foot the bill themselves. They probably even skew their own moral compass somehow and believe their own creative nonsense.

Contacting LA Times seems like the best idea though and a far easier course of action to take.

Just remember there are likely a number of people in power who can do something, but simply don't have the weight of the public or press behind them to safely force a change.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 4th, 2016, 4:02 pm 

Hi BJ,

Thanks, but not sure I want to become so visible, I haven't time to go on a crusade or get Public Attention. I did go to the website Biv suggested and posted a comment condemning their actions.

The irony is that they expect the Homeowners to foot the bill, during this times of financial hardships faced from the failed Pyramid Scheme that banks attempted. The Irony comes from the fact that the City is in the process of a 4 year old Bankruptcy and cant' afford to pay its own bills either.

How do they expect homeowners to do what they themselves can't do? It's insane.

Even worse, I just noticed my compliance date is 10 days from notice delivery. 10 days? To restore my lawn? What are these people thinking? But I may leak the story anonymously to a major newspaper, just for the sake of others in my situation.

But really, all I want is for them to be reasonable and knock it off with the scare tactics. Is that too much to ask?

Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Fuqin on October 4th, 2016, 11:11 pm 

Speaking as a landscape designer, I always recommend that you should never plant lawn , always use native flora .
Assist the ecology dont fight it.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 5th, 2016, 12:08 am 

Thanks Fuqin,

But I already have a lawn (albeit a very thirsty lawn). But I noticed the lawn in the shade looks pretty good.

Someone above mentioned letting the lawn grow longer, thus allowing it to provide its own shade and helping the soil retain water longer. I'm gonna try that right off. My gardener always cuts the lawn like I live on a Golf Course.

I think it might be possible to restore my Lawn without using more water.. we'll see.

Unfortunately, the local desert Flora is quite ugly.. but I agree with your basic stance.

Note: My mother had Jasmine plants put in my back yard. They get zero water yet are thriving and grow fast. I may put those in front as well, since my current front bushes look like they have been in a fire.

Best wishes,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm 

Hi all,

For those following my plight.. here is an update:

I may have to rename this thread: Tyranny by the Minority.

I have found that the City does NOT enforce Landscaping codes unless a complaint has been issued by a Resident. Obviously, they do not want to aggravate the residents that put them in office nor provide ammo for their opposition. They generally maintain a lax attitude, until a complaint is filed.

After a few interviews with neighbors, we found the culprit is the fellow that lives across the street from me. He has already moved and brought in landscapers to fix up his yard, which looks worse than mine right now. As soon as this work is complete he will be putting his home on the market to sell. As stated earlier, the asking price is affected by the home, property and neighborhood.

His complaint only extends to the homes visible from his front yard, which is 5 homes, me being in the middle across the street. Also, I only have 10 days from issue of violation to comply. So I did some research on how other residents in SoCal have handled this problem. I got my solution:

I'm going to Paint my Brown lawn Green. You heard me right..lol.

It's not really paint but a kind of non-toxic food dye. It only lasts a few months as lawn keeps growing.. except where it's not growing well and that remains green for a long time. But following Fuqin's suggestion, I have already told my Gardner to stop mowing. Hopefully, the good lawn will eventually provide shade for better growth and moisture retention and spread over the brown areas. I'm also going to move my watering times further back from dawn to allow the water more time to soak in.

I am replacing my front bushes with Jasmine. My backyard Jasmine plants grow faster than I can trim them. They always seem to be in bloom and I'm not giving them any water at all. There is 20 feet of patio between them and the lawn that gets water. I don't get it, but my front bushes look like dried branches with little foliage and they get some water. Note: the front of my house faces East.

Eventually, I'll probably replace the front lawn with a sod type more suitable to arid places. But this current plan at least gets the yard Police off my back for now. I am aware of the danger to the micro-organisms in the soil etc.

I should thank this fellow, if I see him again, as I intend to move next year anyway and he has done me a favor by increasing the value of my home just in time.

A final note that the experts are predicting the current drought response is radically insufficient and we will basically run out of water in about a year. The water districts are fighting in courts to raise the charge cost of water because they have fixed operational costs and insufficient intake from billing customers to cover said costs of staying in business. Our Governor is more interested in his Legacy of a nearly useless Bullet Train for a Billion dollars and avoidance of the pending doom by drought. I need to leave...sigh..

Ok, maybe not a totally useless Train.. as people will be wanting to leave this area as fast as possible.. soon.

Note: Any suggestions on where to live? Low cost of living, far from natural disasters and nice people?

Best wishes,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby vivian maxine on October 7th, 2016, 5:35 am 

"Far from nice people". Dave? With that stipulation, I cannot recommend Missouri. :-) Seriously Missouri - and the midwest in general - is far cheaper living than what you have in California. In fact, almost any place is cheaper living than California - at least in the area where my friend lives. I don't know how anyone makes ends meet out there. One thing I can promise. We have water here. But we also have nice people. Laid back, easy going, friendly.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 7th, 2016, 4:41 pm 

Hi Viv,

Sorry, that should have read: "far from natural disasters and having nice people?".

Thanks, but so far, Seattle still looks to be my top choice. Very green, rains a lot and no snow.. too close to the ocean for snow but not so close to worry about Tidal Waves. I've become an indoors person in my old age and rainy weather doesn't depress me anymore, rather it justifies my reluctance to go outside..lol.

20 years ago, I was very physical, into recreational activities from Scuba Diving to Sailing to Skiing. Nowadays, give me a small Home, TV, Internet, a stocked Refrigerator, a comfy Bed and I'm good to finish out my life.

Best wishes,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 7th, 2016, 7:54 pm 

Oh, sorry Serpent..

I just noticed, looking over this thread, that you had already touched on Lawn Paint. I should have followed your link but was rushed at that time of reading and I forgot to follow up later. My bad...

Thanks for the heads up.. wish I had paid better attention.

Best Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Braininvat on October 7th, 2016, 8:04 pm 

Good plan, Dave. I had wondered earlier if someone had ratted on you, since cities don't enforce that kind of code unless they get complaints. I've seen that green lawn paint used several places in the arid West. Portland is also nice, btw - green, progressive, friendly, and a touch warmer than Seattle. I also found Fort Collins, CO quite pleasant -progressive, nice old part of downtown, affordable housing (by SoCal standards), good bus system, and cultural events in Denver not that far away.
But it does snow there.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 7th, 2016, 9:49 pm 

Hi all,

Thank Biv, I'll consider anyplace that doesn't snow. We have Snow here but it's smart Snow. It stays up on top the local Mountain range about 30 minutes from my home.

Speaking of Home, here is a year-round cropped photo of the SoCal street I live on. Does this look inviting? Of course, I'd rather live in a forest by a stream.. but.. we'll see how that turns out.

Street.jpg
Southern street view from in front of my House.

Anyway, below is a photo of my back yard just after I got it all fixed up. I even went out and bought me a 10 foot diameter Trampoline for personal exercise being this is the first place I've ever lived that had a back yard. Unfortunately, it didn't take long for the Authorities to step in and give me notice to remove the Trampoline or raise the fence around the property to 6 feet and lock the Gate. The reason given was it posed a danger to neighborhood kids that might be tempted to jump on it and may hurt themselves.

The insult to injury was their request for photographic evidence of compliance.. that I had removed the Trampoline or made it inaccessible to kids.. are you kidding? I could just move the Tramp out of frame, snap a picture and put it back. Why put me through so much effort to produce required evidence?

Backyard.jpg
Backyard after removing Trampoline

Well, you don't ask a Graphics Artist to supply photographic proof of anything. So I photo shopped my above picture into the one shown below and sent it to them as evidence I had made the Trampoline inaccessible to kids. Ain't no kids gonna reach this dangerous sucker:

BackProtected.jpg
Note: Automated Gun Turrets are out of Frame.

The warning sign reads:
------------------------
No Trespassing!
Warning!
High Voltage Fence
Hungry Raptors
Deep Pool
Starving Sharks
Barbed Wire
Spiked Fence
Junkyard Dog

Violators shot on Site
------------------------

Anyway, I never heard back from them, but am still angry that my investment for the Trampoline was a waste.. rotting away in my Garage now. I love Trampolines and am very good on one.. when I was younger anyways.

Fighting Authority to my last breath (even though I never seem to win..rats).

Also, thanks for the Oregon suggestion Biv, I'll look into it.

At my age I need to look into legal pain suppressors and my first hand (10 years) experience with weed demonstrated its superiority over other options, prescription or otherwise (excluding addictive pain killers, they are very effective.. if you don't mind the side effects). Besides, when was the last time you laughed your butt off over a stupid movie while on Motrin?

And for the Anti-Pot enthusiasts.. your campaign is irrational and another form of Tyranny.

Best wishes everyone,
Dave :^)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby BadgerJelly on October 8th, 2016, 2:48 am 

If you are willing to leave the US there are too many choices to consider with a low cost of living. Plus such a change can breath new life into you. South/Central America maybe? Do you speak Spanish?
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby vivian maxine on October 8th, 2016, 6:56 am 

Dave_Oblad » October 7th, 2016, 3:41 pm wrote:Hi Viv,

Sorry, that should have read: "far from natural disasters and having nice people?".

Thanks, but so far, Seattle still looks to be my top choice. Very green, rains a lot and no snow.. too close to the ocean for snow but not so close to worry about Tidal Waves. I've become an indoors person in my old age and rainy weather doesn't depress me anymore, rather it justifies my reluctance to go outside..lol.

20 years ago, I was very physical, into recreational activities from Scuba Diving to Sailing to Skiing. Nowadays, give me a small Home, TV, Internet, a stocked Refrigerator, a comfy Bed and I'm good to finish out my life.

Best wishes,
Dave :^)


I knew what you meant. Was just a smile for you. Seattle is great. I like Oregon even better. Actually, I've never seen either but armchair travel is marvelous - and cheaper than the real thing. As for snow - it's such fun to look out at it and say "Goody, I don't have to go." :-)
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby Braininvat on October 8th, 2016, 10:51 am 

Dave, LMFAO at your photoshopped trampoline pic. What makes it so funny is picturing some officious bureaucrat seeing this as your "evidence."

I'm in South Dakota, the arid western edge of it, where snow is welcomed because it becomes water in the Spring.

Colorado has legal MJ and southern part, like around Pueblo, doesn't get much snow and has a mild winter.
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Re: Tyranny by the Majority

Postby vivian maxine on October 8th, 2016, 11:12 am 

braininvat wrote:I'm in South Dakota, the arid western edge of it, where snow is welcomed because it becomes water in the Spring.


And that water flows right on down to us. Thanks, Biv. :-)
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