time travel

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time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 23rd, 2013, 10:58 pm 

Hello everyone,i am new to this site,and although im not an academic,i find myself having a growing interest in science,particularly physics,which i have an A-level understanding of.I was wondering if anyone could answer me a question on the subject of time travel-from what ive read and understood-one could in theory travel in time using a black hole-but would it be possible to travel in time without moving significantly in space?
Im sorry if this is a very basic question and some more knowledgeable than myself have to "think down" here,but id be very grateful to anyone who could answer this and if possible outline how it could be achieved.
Many thanks.
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Re: time travel

Postby Marshall on February 23rd, 2013, 11:10 pm 

Just wanted to say hello. I don't have any knowledge of proposed time-travel methods. So I don't have a useful response to make.

It's possible one of the moderators covering this Beginning Science section of the forum (Bio, Jordan, ChemE) will be able to respond.

You sure picked a hard one, though. Maybe you should try starting off with an easier question! :^D
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Re: time travel

Postby Marshall on February 23rd, 2013, 11:20 pm 

Please try not to make multiple posts. You have posted the same thing three times. It makes work for the mods because they have to delete the duplicates.
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Re: time travel

Postby Watson on February 24th, 2013, 11:27 am 

I think the only time travelling you will do with a black hole, is to travel to a most uncomfortable future experience, one way, no refunds.
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Re: time travel

Postby Gregorygregg1 on February 24th, 2013, 1:21 pm 

Actually, I think a fully functional time machine was constructed in the early 1900's using a Tesla coil and a Bakelite housing, but it only worked in a forward direction in one second intervals.
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Re: time travel

Postby CanadysPeak on February 24th, 2013, 3:12 pm 

Gregorygregg1 wrote:Actually, I think a fully functional time machine was constructed in the early 1900's using a Tesla coil and a Bakelite housing, but it only worked in a forward direction in one second intervals.


As I sometimes mention (half tongue-in-cheek), I have a very good time machine on my front porch - a rocking chair. I find that, if I sit very, very still, I can move through time at almost the speed of light.
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Re: time travel

Postby ronjanec on February 24th, 2013, 4:23 pm 

Gregorygregg1 wrote:Actually, I think a fully functional time machine was constructed in the early 1900's using a Tesla coil and a Bakelite housing, but it only worked in a forward direction in one second intervals.



What happened when he "arrived in the future" Greg? Did anyone try to eat him?
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Re: time travel

Postby AhmadR on February 24th, 2013, 6:09 pm 

Using a black hole? I think you mean wormhole, because travelling into a black hole would leave you compressed to a state of almost non existence.
And worm holes are still fictional/theoretical
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Re: time travel

Postby Obvious Leo on February 24th, 2013, 6:41 pm 

Canady. Bingo.

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Re: time travel

Postby Obvious Leo on February 24th, 2013, 7:01 pm 

Canady again. I didn't want to haul you up on a technicality and risk censure if not banishment by doing so therefore I phrase my words carefully.

In my wholly personal and layman's unproven opinion you travel through time at exactly the speed of light, not nearly the speed of light. However if you rock your chair just slightly you fractionally alter your referential frame. c remains constant in your continually altering referential frame but is ever so slightly different from the also constant c of your chair at rest, if this makes sense.

This means you have something to look at from your porch.

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Re: time travel

Postby CanadysPeak on February 24th, 2013, 8:08 pm 

Obvious Leo wrote:Canady again. I didn't want to haul you up on a technicality and risk censure if not banishment by doing so therefore I phrase my words carefully.

In my wholly personal and layman's unproven opinion you travel through time at exactly the speed of light, not nearly the speed of light. However if you rock your chair just slightly you fractionally alter your referential frame. c remains constant in your continually altering referential frame but is ever so slightly different from the also constant c of your chair at rest, if this makes sense.

This means you have something to look at from your porch.

Regards Leo

I travel through space-time at c. I have to sit veddy, veddy still to minimize the space part.
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Re: time travel

Postby Obvious Leo on February 24th, 2013, 8:21 pm 

Minimise yes. Eliminate no. We remind ourselves that there is no such thing as absolute rest in an expanding cosmos.

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Re: time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 24th, 2013, 9:11 pm 

Thanks for all the responses-might as well tackle the big questions first i suppose...in mentioning the black hole-i meant more travelling near to it-as i know that to travel into it would mark the end of one's time travel adventures in a most messy way...i'm not an expert and only have a laymans interest,so i apologize in advance if my questions betray a lack of understanding.Hopefully,replies that give food for thought can help with this!!
I kind of reasoned that travel to the past would be frought with complication,for example,.if u travelled back in time,then returned to the space from which u left,but a minute or 2 earlier,would u not see yourself preparing to go into the past??And would that mean that there were now TWO of you now existing in the present??Can of worms is the phrase that springs to mind!!

A friend suggested to me that all ud have to do in theory would be to get close to a really massive object,thus slowing down your time compared to those u left behind...but it wasnt quite satisfying as an answer,because obviously ud still have 2 travel in space to reach the massive object.

So then,there is no theory which would allow u to travel forward in time yet not moving in space at all??

Im sorry if this question betrays lack of knowledge,as i say-i've only done science to A-level and scraped a B grade-13 years ago-so im rusty2say the least,and am only now getting the bug again for knowledge....so it would be that as space and time are intertwined,travel in one dimension(time)would automatically include travel in the other(space)?

Again,thanks for your replies....Fascinating subject-i feel that some time in the future,discoveries will be made to enable the theory of travel to the future a reality-what i'd give to be around for that!!
I'm interested to know-What is your opinion on that?
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Re: time travel

Postby Gregorygregg1 on February 24th, 2013, 9:31 pm 

asthmaticdragon wrote:Again,thanks for your replies....Fascinating subject-i feel that some time in the future,discoveries will be made to enable the theory of travel to the future a reality-what i'd give to be around for that!!
I'm interested to know-What is your opinion on that?

I apologize for sounding flippant, but I have traveled this path before. I find it always leads to the same conclusion: "is it possible to travel back in time?" In my opinion, no.

CanadysPeak wrote:As I sometimes mention (half tongue-in-cheek), I have a very good time machine on my front porch - a rocking chair. I find that, if I sit very, very still, I can move through time at almost the speed of light.


I suppose your time machine might be effective, but perhaps would function more efficiently with the addition of a beverage. The lubrication provided thereby facilitating the fluidity of your trans-time progress. I also suggest the addition of some volatile substance to provide a medium for what could be an intoxicating experience.
Last edited by Gregorygregg1 on February 24th, 2013, 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 24th, 2013, 9:34 pm 

Now,at risk of embarrassing myself,because i dont really know much about this at all-was there not evidence of a certain type of particle (was it the muon or am i just inventing words here?!) in particle accelerator experiments that was found to be travelling in time somehow?
Again-sorry for the ignorance here-i think i remember either reading or seeing something about this...can anyone enlighten me here please?
Thanks.
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Re: time travel

Postby Marshall on February 24th, 2013, 9:39 pm 

asthmaticdragon wrote:...
I kind of reasoned that travel to the past would be frought with complication,for example,.if u travelled back in time,then returned to the space from which u left,but a minute or 2 earlier,would u not see yourself preparing to go into the past??And would that mean that there were now TWO of you now existing in the present??Can of worms is the phrase that springs to mind!!

A friend suggested to me that all ud have to do in theory would be to get close to a really massive object,thus slowing down your time compared to those u left behind...but it wasnt quite satisfying as an answer,because obviously ud still have 2 travel in space to reach the massive object.

So then,there is no theory which would allow u to travel forward in time yet not moving in space at all??
...


Some people have made a study of this. I haven't so can only give you my personal view. I think your reasoning is correct about time travel into the past. It is fraught with complications, such as the example you gave. It just does not make logical sense (to me) that a person could transport himself into his own past.

I want to leave open the possibility that INFORMATION can be transmitted back into past. Most likely it cannot be, in any form. But I don;t want to sound too confident---there might be some form of information we don't know about that could be transmitted back in time in some way we have not imagined.

As far as going FORWARD, you are quite right! If you have a rocket with a lot of fuel you can hover near the horizon of a black hole, without falling in. Being close to the intense gravity---or more exactly being deep down in the potential well of the hole---would make you age slowly, and when you came back after what seemed like a little while to you your friends might all have grey hair, or be bald, or something.
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Re: time travel

Postby CanadysPeak on February 24th, 2013, 10:02 pm 

Gregorygregg1 wrote:
asthmaticdragon wrote:Again,thanks for your replies....Fascinating subject-i feel that some time in the future,discoveries will be made to enable the theory of travel to the future a reality-what i'd give to be around for that!!
I'm interested to know-What is your opinion on that?

I apologize for sounding flippant, but I have traveled this path before. I find it always leads to the same conclusion: "is it possible to travel back in time?" In my opinion, no.

CanadysPeak wrote:As I sometimes mention (half tongue-in-cheek), I have a very good time machine on my front porch - a rocking chair. I find that, if I sit very, very still, I can move through time at almost the speed of light.


I suppose your time machine might be effective, but perhaps would function more efficiently with the addition of a beverage. The lubrication provided thereby facilitating the fluidity of your trans-time progress. I also suggest the addition of some volatile substance to provide a medium for what could be an intoxicating experience.


Aye, it's not time travel that bedevils me, but space travel. As I sit on my rocker, I often feel the warmth of the sun in my old bones, and I marvel that those warming rays are eight minutes old, but then I wonder if the sun is there now. I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to travel those measly ninety million miles without also going through time. And, why does the light of the sun always come toward me, never does it go backwards? What's up with that? A real puzzle.
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Re: time travel

Postby Marshall on February 24th, 2013, 10:04 pm 

asthmaticdragon wrote:...particle accelerator experiments that was found to be travelling in time somehow?
Again-sorry for the ignorance here-i think i remember either reading or seeing something about this...can anyone enlighten me here please?
Thanks.


There was what seemed for a while like evidence of neutrinos traveling faster than light but that was eventually laid to rest (a problem was found in the equipment).

If information could be sent faster than light in our frame of reference that might somehow look like transmission backwards in time to someone in a moving frame. But it was debunked.

there have also been wild speculation about backwards causation involving the LHC (large hadron collider).

Of course quantum mechanics holds uncomprehended processes. At small scale, particle scale, under special conditions, particles do things which aren't consistent with ordinary macroscopic lifesize-world logic.

But so far AFAIK the speculations about backwards transmission of information have not panned out. Stuff people speculated about didn't happen. I've forgotten the details already.

I think there is a lot of stuff we simply do not know and aren't ready to understand so there are questions that cannot be given a definite answer at this point. I think the possibility of backwards transmission of information cannot yet be absolutely ruled out on theoretical grounds (basically because our theory is not yet good enough or complete enough). Just my two cents.

I'd love it if in my lifetime people got a theory of what TIME is that was good enough so that they could definitely say backwards transmission of information is outright impossible. that would be progress.
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Re: time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 24th, 2013, 10:19 pm 

So remember to pack a bottle of hair dye before u set out on ur trip,right?
Thanks-it's good to hear other peoples personal opinions on stuff like this-i don't have many people in my life that i could have this conversation with-so i appreciate your time here.
Do u mind me asking what it is u do for a living?
And are the people responsible for this site professional scientists or dedicated amateurs or both?
Also,when u say information,could u elaborate at all on that-what kind of information etc?

But if ur fed up answering,its cool lol-im gonna search for some info on the muon,see where that takes me as im sure it was discovered that it was a particle that could actually travel in time.
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Re: time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 24th, 2013, 10:25 pm 

Thanks Marshall-going to re-read ur last post a little more slowly this time and let it sink in!
It's strange,as i think u just pointed out-people seem to have LOTS of BIG questions about time that are both interesting and though provoking,and yet no-one seems to REALLY know exactly what time is...i think it's probably thee deepest thing one could think about...it's mind boggling.Most of physics is,do you know a lot about Quantum Theory?
Dont know a lot about it myself,but i do know im pretty much totally baffled by it,as i imagine most people are.
Maybe the US military will come to engineer a muscle skeleton for the mind,a thinking cap if u will-that'd certainly help me out!!
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Re: time travel

Postby Watson on February 24th, 2013, 10:43 pm 

first welcome asthmaticdragonm and second

But if ur fed up answering,its cool

no one here gets fed up with questions or helping others.

I think what you are getting at is the thought experiment that one twin ages faster depending if they are on earth or on a spaceship.
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Re: time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 24th, 2013, 11:03 pm 

Thank you Watson-thats good to know...this is a subject that i've only recently begun thinking about,and started to look a little deeper into,so questions are the one thing i most definitely have in abundance.Its just that sometimes there are so many thoughts that it's hard to get them out coherently.Some much to learn,so little time(if only i had a time machine darn it!)

Yeah-i recognise the twins paradox,i've heard of that one before.

I think the thing that got me started on this thread was re-reading the Hitchikers Guide...the scene where they go from Margrathea to the Restaurant at the end of the universe-travelling in time but not in space...and it seems that this little sojourn remains,for now at least,rooted in science fiction.

Thanks again 2 everyone who has replied,much appreciated.
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Re: time travel

Postby Obvious Leo on February 25th, 2013, 12:56 am 

Try this one. I think we can all agree that it is impossible to witness an event that has not yet occurred. It is equally impossible, although less obviously so, to witness an event while it is actually occurring. ( Canady has to wait 8 minutes for his tan). This is because the light (information) from an occurring event takes a finite time to reach us, even if we jam our noses hard up against the action. Thus we can only perceive the past.

We live in a real and dynamic universe but we perceive only a hologram. Reality has moved on.

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Re: time travel

Postby Gregorygregg1 on February 25th, 2013, 2:26 am 

Obvious Leo wrote:Try this one. I think we can all agree that it is impossible to witness an event that has not yet occurred. It is equally impossible, although less obviously so, to witness an event while it is actually occurring. ( Canady has to wait 8 minutes for his tan). This is because the light (information) from an occurring event takes a finite time to reach us, even if we jam our noses hard up against the action. Thus we can only perceive the past.

We live in a real and dynamic universe but we perceive only a hologram. Reality has moved on.

Regards Leo

In other words, we are living in the past into which we cannot travel. And moving into the now that we cannot reach. Kind of makes you dizzy.
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Re: time travel

Postby Watson on February 25th, 2013, 2:54 am 

Makes a good case for existing in the moment as long as it was the past events approaching us from the past. Our future sun shine, is really a past radiation. But perception doesn't really make for time travel.
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Re: time travel

Postby asthmaticdragon on February 25th, 2013, 9:14 am 

Those last couple of posts were awesome-dizzy indeed!!
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Re: time travel

Postby Michael D on November 12th, 2014, 7:31 am 

I'm not a scientist, but like many people I like to philosophise about lots of things. Time travel is a fascinating topic which has inspired much debate and of course great stories. Time travel into the future may indeed be possible one day. Time travel to the past may be a little more problematic I think. One thing which is central to many questions of this nature is the speed of light. Einstein theorised that the speed of light is contant in a vacuum. Now, I know this has helped to answer some questions, but equally it has raised many others, after all it is only a theory and is not conclusive proof. What if the speed of light is not the ultimate velocity: After all space is not, strictly speaking, a vacuum as a vacumm, by definition, is devoid of all matter. I believe there is no definitive answer as yet to the question: Is time travel possible?
To site any paradox which might be created as a result of time travel as evidence against such a possibilty is illogical. Any such events should be debated independently.
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Re: time travel

Postby manishsqrt on September 5th, 2015, 1:03 pm 

Time travel is in theories, no such practical applications till date. But as per theory time delay is possible so one frame may be send back fourth in time in a relative aspect. For going into a time which has not occurred yet the very thing has happened theory must be accepted, though that theory is only in philosophies till date no such logical explanation is there.
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Re: time travel

Postby glennAms on September 7th, 2015, 12:15 am 

Time travel is possible.... if you put a person in stasis or a coma when he wakes up to a certain time then that is Time Travel....Sah!
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Re: time travel

Postby vivian maxine on September 7th, 2015, 6:19 am 

Just to add a smile to the idea. I was cruising the internet the other day and stumbled upon a site where amateur poets post. I cannot quote this little verse verbatim but did appreciate what he said. If you are going to travel into the future, you'd better figure out how to teach light to travel faster. Otherwise it is going to be terribly dark where you go with no light to guide you.

Happy Labor Day and watch out for the tachyons.
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