Hydrogen Fuel Cells

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Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on October 31st, 2014, 12:04 am 

So for the past 15 years I have followed the fuel cell industry. (the past five I have been out of the loop a lot though doing other things) In that time I have seen the rise and fall of many companies. I have seen hydrogen fueling stations open and close. I have seen applications from everything from cellphone chargers, to cruise ships, airplanes, fork lifts, Arnold Schwarzenegger's Hummers, mopeds, night vision goggles, ATVs, motorhomes, and cell towers. I have personally driven about 20 different hydrogen powered vehicles from nearly every auto company. I have attended several events, including one at the US Senate. I have not seen one explosion, or injury reported. Let me now introduce you to the hydrogen fuel cell. The battery of the future (and power plant if you run them off any number of waste products (depending on how you define them)). hehe :)

I was just reading the recent round of news and it gets me really excited. They haven't just been blowing smoke the past 15 years. It's been a gradual build, and with the latest news, it seems to really be picking up steam finally. The chicken and egg problem is getting figured out on the fueling stations vs the cars. If you build them, they will come.

For those of you out of the loop. It's a huge growing industry, and we are really in the transition of an energy revolution.
I will paste some of the recent headlines and maybe a summary. These are the main headlines for October 2014 alone.

Air Products Signs $25.5 Million Deal with FirstElement Fuel for California Hydrogen Fueling Station Equipment

They are building 50 hydrogen stations in California during 2015

New York Governor Cuomo Visits Plug Power Facility in Latham, New York

Linde to Build and Operate First Retail Hydrogen Station in U.S.


"On October 6, Linde announced that it was nearing completion of its first retail hydrogen fueling station in West Sacramento, California. " There have been many stations in California but apparently none were retail until now?

EPA Administrator Visits the FuelCell Energy Park in Bridgeport, Connecticut

"15 megawatt (MW) fuel cell park. The one-and-a-half acre installation, located on a brownfield site, is powered by FuelCell Energy's fuel cell power plants."


Connecticut Governor Malloy Announces $5.1 Million in State Microgrid Funding Including FuelCell Energy Deployment

Ballard Power Announces Multi-Year Fuel Cell Supply Agreement with Plug Power

Daimler, Linde, and Partners to Collaborate on Expansion of Germany's Hydrogen Fueling Stations

Iwatani Expects Hydrogen Sales to Jump on Fuel Cells


"Iwatani currently supplies 60 percent of the hydrogen fuel in Japan, and is the country's sole provider of liquid hydrogen. Japan's Prime Minister recently committed to creating a 'hydrogen society' in Japan, providing funding for hydrogen fueling stations, as well as fuel cell power for homes and businesses. "

Sandia Labs Concludes that Fuel Cell Lights are Ready for Commercial Use

"On September 30, researchers at Sandia National Labs (SNL) concluded a pilot program for mobile lighting systems using fuel cells. The five year program established the technology's proven track record in applications such as construction, sports, entertainment and in airports. "

Bloom Energy, Washington Gas, and Macerich Announce Fuel Cells at Danbury Fair Mall

Ballard to Deploy ElectraGen Fuel Cell System for Jamaican Cellular Network

FuelCell Energy Awarded $3.2 Million for Development of Next-Gen Fuel Cell Power Plants

UK Government Announces £11 Million in Funding for Hydrogen Fueling Network

Hydrogenics Announces Celerity Fuel Cell Product Line for Medium and Heavy Duty Trucks


After 15 years I must say Hydrogenics is one of the most successful so far. Also one of the better investments if you are into that kind of thing.

Mercedes-Benz Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Reaches 300,000 Kilometer Mark

CALSTART Announces the Country's First 60-Foot Fuel Cell Electric Bus


"On October 13, CALSTART announced that it had received approval form the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) to develop North America's first ever 60-foot fuel cell electric bus (FCEB). "

There are many fuel cell busses in operation for the past several years around the world. I guess none were 60 foot until now.

FuelCell Energy Awarded Contract to Evaluate New Applications for Direct FuelCell Power Plants

Ballard Power Signs MOU for Development of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Powered Trollies in Latvia


"...to collaborate on the development and deployment of hydrogen fuel cell trolley buses for the city of Riga, Latvia."

Japan Identifies Surplus Green Energy as Method to Produce Hydrogen for Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles

ITM Power Takes Delivery of Hyundai's Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle


"On October 20, ITM Power announced that it has taken delivery of one of Hyundai's first ix35 fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) in the U.K. "

Ballard and Van Hool Launch Service Center for European Fuel Cell Electric Buses

European Commission Adopts New Rule to Ensure Minimum Coverage of Alternative Fueling Infrastructure


"On September 29, the European Commission adopted new rules for European Union (EU) member states to ensure the construction of alternative fueling stations across Europe by 2025. The rule covers a variety of alternative fueling infrastructure, including hydrogen refueling stations. "


I can't wait. I sure hope to see the day when most of the vehicles on the road are some sort of hydrogen powered and we can get back to clean skies around the foothills and maybe even the cities. When we can fly in airplanes and see for miles without the haze. Of course I have also read all kinds of theories about the effect to the atmosphere if industry and vehicles ran on hydrogen. All that water vapor could actually grab onto other emission particulate. At this point, I haven't read anything credible on the matter, and speculation is all I can see anyone doing. However, I don't know about you, but I choose breathing water vapor over gasoline byproducts (including mercury which gets into the food chain)
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on October 31st, 2014, 12:58 am 

"December 3 marks the next deadline for industries to submit their Part I application for the Department of Energy's $4 billion in available loan guarantees for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE) Projects. As a part of the President's Climate Action Plan, the DOE has allocated $4 billion in loan guarantees to promote EERE projects that avoid or reduce greenhouse gas emissions."
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Braininvat on November 1st, 2014, 5:33 pm 

Have been a fuel cell fan for many years. We need politicians with balls, to fend off the Koch brothers and their plutocrat kin. Just watch the fossil fuel boosters try to put the fear in people of vehicles that are fueled with hydrogen; no matter how safe it becomes, they will be whispering "Hindenbergh" in our ears. Hope they are drowned out by the vast majority of citizens who live in urban areas and would realize a great improvement in their air quality.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Braininvat on November 18th, 2014, 11:35 am 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/18/sc ... rooms.html

saw this at NYT this a.m.

talks about some of the advantages FC cars have over battery cars
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby doogles on November 19th, 2014, 6:26 am 

Good day to you Zetrique and Braininvat.

I am totally ignorant of hydrogen-powered cars. What is the brief principle involved> Do they need to be plugged into electricity outlets?
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Marshall on November 19th, 2014, 7:09 pm 

Doogles, do you have a picture of how electrolysis works? The fuel cell reaction is the reverse of that.

First think about electrolysis, using electricity to convert water into fuel and oxygen----hydrogen comes out one pipe and oxygen comes out the other.

the way it works is simple, in naturally occurring water there is always some molecules which have randomly divided into H+ and OH- ions. the H+ is a hydrogen atom that is missing its electron, so it is positively charged and so it is attracted by a negative charged wire or "electrode" that you stick into the water. The OH- is a negatively charged thing made of two atoms with an extra electron.

That is just how nature works. In all water there is some ionization and some neutral H2O molecules break up this way into charged fragments called ions.

So then if you stick two wires into the water, one wire neg and the other wire pos, the opposite charged ions will swim to the opposite charged wires and hydrogen ION will GET THE ELECTRON IT NEEDS and become hydrogen gas and BUBBLE UP around that negative wire (which is supplying the H+ ions with the electrons they are missing) and be caught in a pipe. And hydrogen gas will go out that pipe on that side.

And at the positive wire the OH- ions will swim in and touch the wire and give up two electrons, the extra one and one off of the H, making a new H+ which is repelled and swims back over towards the negative wire, AND making oxygen gas which bubbles up along the wire and goes out ITS separate pipe.

So using electricity you can make chemical fuel out of water.

But that is not a FUEL CELL. It is an electrolysis cell (lysis means "splitting"). A fuel cell is the REVERSE.
You pipe in hydrogen thru one pipe, and oxygen (or air will work because it contains oxygen) in thru another pipe, and the hydrogen wants to go into solution, or get thru a kind of membrane which rejects gas and only passes ions. so the hydrogen GIVES UP an electron and goes through. And the oxygen SWALLOWS an electron at the other side of the fuel cell and its ion goes out and meets the hydrogen ion and they combine to make water.

So from a fuel cell you get electricity and water out.

It is the opposite of an electrolysis cell where you put water and electricity in.

Fuel cells are quiet and efficient. But they are bulky and I believe a bit expensive. The alternative would be an internal combustion engine using hydrogen, which is noisy and comparatively inefficient, but can be made more compactly and cheaply than a fuel cell. I wonder how compact and cheap fuel cells have become, since I last looked. They may have improved them.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby doogles on November 20th, 2014, 7:32 am 

Thank you Marshall for that information. It describes the basic principle well.

I must admit that I was a bit lazy last night and had failed to check the link provided by Braininvat. This shows the design of the equipment needed in the car itself very well. I thank you for the link BIV and apologise for my lazy lapse.

It’s obvious that a fuel cell is needed as well as a fuel (hydrogen) tank. And I think this is where we still have some practical problems with hydrogen –driven vehicles. Apparently the fuel cells are still fairly expensive (That may change with numbers), and hydrogen fuel outlets need to be available. Obviously increased usage could result in more outlets.

But the biggest question mark hanging over the technology appears to be in the commercial production of hydrogen gas itself. There was a claim in the link provided by Braininvat that the vehicles using hydrogen cells do not themselves emit greenhouse gases. This is true.

But the current economical methods of collecting and storing hydrogen gas do produce greenhouse gases.

If this is so, then hydrogen-driven vehicles remain expensive at the moment, and the current economic technologies for producing the hydrogen gas still produce greenhouse gases.

Having said that, I might add that to date, to the best of my knowledge and belief, we have not yet seen a basic experiment demonstrating that any of the greenhouse gases actually hold the heat that they absorb for any length of time. I realise that there is evidence that they absorb infrared emissions, but not that they hold that energy for any length of time. Can anyone enlighten me?
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on November 25th, 2014, 1:43 pm 

doogles » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:26 am wrote:Good day to you Zetrique and Braininvat.

I am totally ignorant of hydrogen-powered cars. What is the brief principle involved> Do they need to be plugged into electricity outlets?


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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on November 25th, 2014, 1:48 pm 

Launching in the US/Europe this summer (so they say) starting in southern California. At the end of that video is a link to another video where a guy tours it at a 2014 car show. I was just going through the latest news this morning. I'd be excited to go to an event and drive the next round of cars from all the automakers.

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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on November 25th, 2014, 1:59 pm 

doogles » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:32 am wrote:Thank you Marshall for that information. It describes the basic principle well.

I must admit that I was a bit lazy last night and had failed to check the link provided by Braininvat. This shows the design of the equipment needed in the car itself very well. I thank you for the link BIV and apologise for my lazy lapse.

It’s obvious that a fuel cell is needed as well as a fuel (hydrogen) tank. And I think this is where we still have some practical problems with hydrogen –driven vehicles. Apparently the fuel cells are still fairly expensive (That may change with numbers), and hydrogen fuel outlets need to be available. Obviously increased usage could result in more outlets.

But the biggest question mark hanging over the technology appears to be in the commercial production of hydrogen gas itself. There was a claim in the link provided by Braininvat that the vehicles using hydrogen cells do not themselves emit greenhouse gases. This is true.

But the current economical methods of collecting and storing hydrogen gas do produce greenhouse gases.

If this is so, then hydrogen-driven vehicles remain expensive at the moment, and the current economic technologies for producing the hydrogen gas still produce greenhouse gases.

Having said that, I might add that to date, to the best of my knowledge and belief, we have not yet seen a basic experiment demonstrating that any of the greenhouse gases actually hold the heat that they absorb for any length of time. I realise that there is evidence that they absorb infrared emissions, but not that they hold that energy for any length of time. Can anyone enlighten me?


firstly, I have no idea what method you are referring to for generating hydrogen that would produce "greenhouse gases". I don't want to sound like a fool over-guessing how many ways, but there are a LOT of ways to generate hydrogen. All of which have a cost benefit analysis.

Second: I have been hearing that same exact story for years, while they continually develop better electrolysis and ways of generating hydrogen.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby doogles on November 26th, 2014, 3:05 am 

Good day to you Zetrique. I looked up a few articles on hydrogen production after Marshall and Braininvat provided the basic principles in earlier articles. My impression was that there were still a few problems as far as cost-efficiency were concerned.

After your last posting I searched a bit further and found this article, published in 2012. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 112927.htm , which states that “Scientists have produced hydrogen, a renewable energy source from water using an inexpensive catalyst under industrially relevant conditions (using pH neutral water, surrounded by atmospheric oxygen, and at room temperature).”

The authors acknowledge the problems with greenhouse gas production as a byproduct of hydrogen production – “H2 is currently produced from fossil fuels and it produces the greenhouse gas CO2 as a by-product; it is therefore neither renewable nor clean. A green process such as sunlight-driven water splitting is therefore required to produce 'green and sustainable H2'.”

As you can see, it describes a newer, cleaner, as yet experimental, method of producing hydrogen. The authors add "Our research has shown that inexpensive materials such as cobalt are suitable to fulfil this challenging requirement. Of course, many hurdles such as the rather poor stability of the catalyst remain to be addressed, but our finding provides a first step to produce 'green hydrogen' under relevant conditions."

I'm just an interested bystander in this area Zetrique, but I do like to be informed, and I thank you for that. Do you know of any later developments in this field of hydrogen production, Zetrique?
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on November 26th, 2014, 4:34 am 

Hello Doogles,

I have read so many articles about hydrogen they get really repetitive to me. The statement that hydrogen is currently produced by fossil fuels is old thinking. Hydrogen is/was mostly created and used by fossil fuels. It's a major requirement for the production of gasoline at oil refineries.

New world thinking is through electrolysis. "They" are now setting up solar and wind powered stations along natural gas pipelines. As we know, wind and solar are not continuous, so what happens is they create hydrogen when there is wind or solar, and then inject it into the gas pipeline to increase it's energy content into the already built natural gas infrastructure.

The solar and wind electrolysis technology is increasing at an exponential rate. It's similar to computers. Soon as you buy a windows 7 machine, they come out with windows 8 that has like twice the power (unfortunately the software requires twice the power as well, so you end up with the same speed.

It is true that a large portion of hydrogen is produced by fossil fuels, but it's becoming more efficient and by using cleaner fuels all the time. Where it was once produced by coal, it's now produce by natural gas, and the direction is toward one of solar and wind which that feeding it into the natural gas pipeline is a stepping stone in the ever increasing direction toward less dependence on fossil fuels, so long as population growth ever comes under control.

When articles simply say that it's produced by fossil fuels doesn't really give any depth. It seems like someone saying, The world looks flat where I live, so there is no need to consider exploring to improve my idea of what the world is. Generating hydrogen still produces green house gases, so we may as well just keep digging up coal to burn without trying to slowly work toward a better solution.

Another thing to look out for is solid oxide fuel cell systems, or dirty gas fuel cells. Fuel Cell Energy is a company that leads in this, and they are increasing technology at an exponential rate. I once put together a whole system proposal for one of their units, and two years later, the same units were half the size, and lasted twice as long. They have fuel cells that can take any sort of dirty "natural" gas, or burned waste, cow farts, or beer brewing byproducts and feed it into these things which generate power and negligible toxins compared to traditional sources.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby doogles on November 26th, 2014, 4:53 pm 

Thank you for that Zetrique. It looks as if we are getting closer to commercially competitive hydrogen propulsion every year.

You used a computer analogy which reminded me of a talk I heard at a Rotary meeting in 1974 by a computer programmer. He held up a matchbox and said that the effective components driving computers that used to occupy three rooms in the 1940s could now be contained in an area the size of that match box.

He also very prophetically announced that if we bought a computer and it broke down after a year or so, we should not bother to get it repaired - because new models would appear annually at twice the capacity for half the cost.

Hopefully, this will turn out to be something like the picture for hydrogen propulsion tecnology.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on November 26th, 2014, 5:52 pm 

doogles » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:53 pm wrote:Hopefully, this will turn out to be something like the picture for hydrogen propulsion tecnology.


How about solve the world water problems? :)

I'm sort of joking, but consider this. I have watched people drink the water out of the tail pipe of these things. They use it for advertising and marketing actually. Now I know they probably lack minerals that you get in normal water and such, but isn't it a nice thought to think that not only will the cars make our air cleaner, but we could refill our water bottles? It's a nice thought in a world where most people buy bottled water, and wells are drying up all over the country.

Can we kill two birds with one stone?
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on January 30th, 2015, 1:36 am 

Some random headlines this month:

Department of Energy Announces Up To $35 Million to Advance Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Technologies

Honda FCV Concept Makes North American Debut at Detroit Auto Show

Mercedes-Benz Unveils F105 Luxury Concept Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle at CES

Plug Power Identifies SouthernLINC Wireless as Multi-Year ReliOn Fuel Cell Customer

Air Liquide Completes Construction of Two Hydrogen Fueling Stations in Japan

Ballard Prototype Next Generation Fuel Cell Electric Buses Begin Trial in Hamburg, Germany
"With the addition of these two FCvelocity-HD7 buses in Hamburg, a total of 42 buses in Europe will be powered by Ballard fuel cell modules."

Hydrogenics Wins Two Hydrogen Fueling Stations in California and the United Kingdom

Proton Onsite Launches Megawatt-Scale PEM Electrolyzer

Toyota Mirai FCEV Receives Over 1500 Orders in Japan, Surpassing Forecast
"On January 15, Toyota announced that over 1,500 orders have been received for its Mirai fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) in the first month since the Japanese launch on December 15 of last year."
"Toyota originally forecasted to sell 400 units in Japan by the end of 2015 and hopes to sell 3,000 in the United States by 2017. The automaker recently announced that it was also making all of its fuel cell related patents free to use through 2020."

Intelligent Energy Meets Deployment Target for Fuel Cell Telecom Units in India

Doosan Fuel Cell America Partners with Becker & Becker to Install Fuel Cell in Downtown Hartford, Connecticut




"On January 5, Toyota announced at the 2015 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, Nevada that it was making all 5,680 of its fuel cell patents available for royalty free licensing to help spur the initial market introduction of fuel cell electric vehicles. "


Department of Energy Announces Up To $35 Million to Advance Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Technologies
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby wolfhnd on January 30th, 2015, 6:43 am 

Why don't we switch to natural gas on the way to hydrogen?
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on January 30th, 2015, 11:36 am 

wolfhnd » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:43 am wrote:Why don't we switch to natural gas on the way to hydrogen?


"We" are. Have been doing it for a little while now.


http://www.hydrogenics.com/hydrogen-products-solutions/energy-storage-fueling-solutions/power-to-gas
By storing hydrogen or substitute natural gas in the existing natural gas pipeline network and associated underground storage facilities, the stored energy can be discharged where and when it is needed most. This results in a higher overall integrated system efficiency.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby wolfhnd on January 30th, 2015, 12:06 pm 

I'm a member of the Picken's Plan. http://www.pickensplan.com/

I like the idea of electrical cars but battery waste, heavy trucking and distribution loads makes me favor hydrogen.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Gregorygregg1 on January 30th, 2015, 2:05 pm 

I thought Hydrogen was the answer to alternative energy back around 1998. I started investing in companies like Plug Power and eventually watched my investments shrink. I wound up loosing about $17,000 before I cut my losses. It would make me feel a lot better about the loss if these folks finally made it. I loved the idea of using fuel cells for residential and business power, eliminating the power grid. Our current system of delivering electricity (no pun intended) is a national security disaster waiting to happen. There were some folks, a husband and wife team of chemical engineers, back in the 90's who had invented a solid hydrogen storage system you could draw hydrogen from on demand, but if you lit a match to it, nothing would happen. Both were in their late sixties or early 70's at that time, they may still be alive. There was also a group of biologists in California who were able to engineer algae that produced Hydrogen as a by-product of photosynthesis. At the time it looked like a technology ready to take off. I lost my shirt in hydrogen, but I still think it would be the best investment we could make. Electric cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells don't have the range problems of Lithium battery cars, and there is far less potential danger to the environment from Hydrogen than Lithium. Lithium is a drug that flattens the affect of people with manic depressive disorders. You can envision a world of zombies if Lithium pollution becomes a big thing. Good thread zetreque.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on January 30th, 2015, 2:50 pm 

I also have been investing in hydrogen fuel cell companies in the stock market since about 2001. I have been diversified and traded a lot so I have remained just below break even. A lot have gone bankrupt, but I actually made a lot of money in a couple that went bankrupt by selling at the spikes over news which saved my A$$

Hydrogenics has been one of the ones that lasted, and the only one I trade now, but actually not that often.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on February 27th, 2015, 4:44 am 

some more recent Headlines.... looks good. still slowly building under people's noses.


On February 12, Toyota announced, along with Nissan and Honda, a joint effort to accelerate the development of hydrogen fueling infrastructure for fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs).
The collaboration, which will take place only in Japan, is based on the Strategic Roadmap for Hydrogen and Fuel Cells, which was developed by the Japanese government in 2014.


Ballard Power Signs $80 Million Deal with Volkswagen for Fuel Cell Intellectual Property

On January 30, the Connecticut State Bond Commission approved a $10 million loan to FuelCell Energy. The loan will be used to help FuelCell Energy expand its manufacturing facilities in Torrington, estimated to create 325 jobs over the course of the next five years.

On January 9, Becker Development Agency announced that the new apartment complex in downtown Hartford, Connecticut, will be ready by mid-April of this year. The complex, previously the Hartford Bank Building, will be powered by a 400 kilowatt (kW) Doosan fuel cell, which was delivered in early January.

Stop & Shop to Install Bloom Energy Fuel Cell in Mt. Vernon, New York Supermarket

Air Products Signs Agreement with Suzuki Shokan to Develop Hydrogen Fueling Infrastructure for Japanese Material Handling Market

Thüga Group's Power-to-Gas Plant, Built by ITM Power, Exceeds Expectations

Kansai International Airport in Japan to Acquire Fuel Cell Powered Forklifts

Johnson Matthey and Technical Fibre Products Announce New Fuel Cell Electrode Technology

On February 17, Ballard Power announced that it expects to supply ten modules to power fuel cell electric buses (FCEBs) as part of two projects that were recently awarded funding by the U.S. Federal Transit Administration (FTA) under the Low and No Emission (LoNo) Vehicle Deployment Program.

On February 19, The Northeast Electrochemical Energy Storage Cluster (NEESC), administered by the Connecticut Center for Advanced Technology Inc. (CCAT), announced the release of the 2015 Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Development Plans for each of the eight states in the Northeast United States.

As of February 6, Kraftwerk, a portable solid oxide fuel cell (SOFC) charger for USB devices like smartphones and tablets has more than doubled its Kickstarter funding goal of $500,000. Developed by the European company eZelleron, the device has the capability to charge an average smartphone 11 times on a single butane cartridge.

On February 18, Sandia National Laboratories (SNL), with support from DOE, released a workshop report titled "Transitioning the Transportation Sector: Exploring the Intersection of Hydrogen Fuel Cell and Natural Gas Vehicles."
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Darby on February 27th, 2015, 12:11 pm 

The main problems I see with hydrogen fuel cells ATM are two fold:

For the transportation sector: the biggest problem is not so much generation of hydrogen, but rather the infrastructure for safe & economical distribution and utilization, both. You have to grow both at the same time, which is not easy.

For the CHP sector: the vast majority of existing infrastructure is based on natural gas from utilities, and it's NOT just a simple matter of changing the contents being pumped to a typical household from NG to hydrogen. The gases burn differently (hydrogen is much more explosive) - if, for example, you switch the NG line on a typical residential home to hydrogen, the CHP will run fine, but the NG-fired kitchen stove and NG-fired clothes dryer will both explode, because they're not designed for it, and I'm not sure they can be readily adapted. More likely, you'd have to completely replace the entire lines into and around the house, as well as the appliances connected to it. Oh, and even if you can get the hydrogen to work for a household, you'd need to mix in some Methanethiol for leak detection - but then again, hydrogen is so explosive that by the time you smell the Methanethiol the situation is already potentially deadly. I'd like to see an article on that, rather than simply speculating.

I'm tempted to conclude that although fuel cells are definitely the most promising energy sector on the horizon for substantially reducing carbon emissions (provided the electrolysis side of the equation is powered by equally low carbon sources like renewables and/or nuclear), it won't necessarily be hydrogen that supplies the oompf in the near term ... until the requisite infrastructure for hydrogen distribution & utilization can sufficiently propagate, it will more than likely be natural gas for CHP and propane for vehicles, that will be used as the fuel for this technology.

So yes, it's a given that ultimately we'll need to run the technology off hydrogen electrolized (sp?) from water, but in the near term we're gonna have to rely on gaseous hydrocarbons until the technology matures and propagates.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on February 27th, 2015, 12:55 pm 

Darby » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:11 am wrote:The main problems I see with hydrogen fuel cells ATM are two fold:

For the transportation sector: the biggest problem is not so much generation of hydrogen, but rather the infrastructure for safe & economical distribution and utilization, both. You have to grow both at the same time, which is not easy.


http://www.fuelcellpartnership.org/
http://www.fuelcellpartnership.org/cars ... /caroadmap

as just an example for California, not to mention several organizations around the world with in depth plans that have been working on for decades.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on March 20th, 2015, 10:18 am 

Solving the storage and expensive metal (platinum) problem.

http://phys.org/news/2015-03-great-advancing-sustainable-energy.html

"We have developed a compound, Ni5P4 (nickel-5 phosphide-4), that has the potential to replace platinum in two types of electrochemical cells: electrolyzers that make hydrogen by splitting water through hydrogen evolution reaction (HER) powered by electrical energy, and fuel cells that make electricity from combining hydrogen and oxygen," said Rutgers Chemistry Professor Charles Dismukes.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on April 8th, 2015, 9:07 pm 

Here are some March headlines:




South Coast Air Quality Management District Opens One of the Largest Capacity Hydrogen Fueling Stations in California

IKEA to Install Bloom Energy Fuel Cells to Generate More Onsite Power at Store in Emeryville, California

Daimler to Upgrade Key German Plant for Fuel Cell Systems

Air Products Opens United Kingdom's First Supermarket-Sited Hydrogen Refueling Station

Hydrogenics Awarded $4.4 Million Grant by the California Energy Commission for Medium and Heavy Duty Fuel Cell Applications

Proton OnSite to Supply Electrolyzer Stacks for Multiple Submarine Fleets

Intelligent Energy Unveils New 100 kW Automotive Fuel Cell Architecture

Disney Announces 1 MW Fuel Cell Installation at Pixar Animation Studios

Linde Group Member BOC Opens UK's Largest Hydrogen Production and Bus Refueling Station in Aberdeen

Bloom Energy Installs Fuel Cells at Osaka Prefectural Central Wholesale Market in Japan

This following video counters the argument power companies try to make against renewable energy.


Ballard Power Hosts South African Government Delegation in Support of Fuel Cell Technology

First Mobile Hydrogen Fueling Station Opens in Tokyo, Japan

Japan, European Union to Standardize Fuel Cell Vehicle Regulations

British Columbia Government Announces New Incentive for Purchase of Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles

Apple Inc. Granted First Fuel Cell Patent, Paving Way for Days Long Battery Life

Heliocentris Announces HyDrive Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Experiement Kit

Startup Receives Grant to Advance Microbial Fuel Cell Technology with Brewery
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Darby on April 8th, 2015, 9:23 pm 



Very promising.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on April 17th, 2015, 8:39 pm 

Wallingford-based Proton OnSite joins California company on power-to-gas project
http://www.nhregister.com/business/20150414/wallingford-based-proton-onsite-joins-california-company-on-power-to-gas-project

Proton OnSite will take part in what officials at the company are saying is the first large-scale project to use electricity from renewable sources to make carbon-free hydrogen gas to be stored for producing power at a later time.


I'm not sure that is true. They are doing what Hydrogenics already did in Canada.


Proton has launched a new commercial-scale megawatt electrolyzer that the company says provides an increase in hydrogen production that is 13 times greater than compared to similar commercial systems.
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Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby Dave_C on April 18th, 2015, 10:20 am 

Great thread zetreque. I work in the fuel cell industry. Actually work for one of the companies you've mentioned, but there's a lot of info here I haven't been aware of. I guess my focus is more in the engineering area though so I don't see as much about the market.
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on April 18th, 2015, 1:38 pm 

Dave_C » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:20 am wrote:Great thread zetreque. I work in the fuel cell industry. Actually work for one of the companies you've mentioned, but there's a lot of info here I haven't been aware of. I guess my focus is more in the engineering area though so I don't see as much about the market.

Hello Dave_C,

That is cool, I have known a couple people that worked for some of the companies I listed. One curious thing is, I sometimes wonder if companies even look to see what their competitors are doing. Sometimes they get so caught up in their own research that they invent things in parallel (convergent parallel evolution). I even had a friend that worked at a company that researched the industry and he was still in the dark about so much that goes on. I know there is at least one person in the company though that sits at his/her desk google searching and feeling out into the world for a sense of what is going on. (I used to work for a company where that was the case)
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Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cells

Postby zetreque on April 29th, 2015, 3:33 pm 

Some April Headlines

Plug Power Rolls Out Fuel Cell-Powered Ground Support Equipment at Memphis International Airport FedEx Super Hub

Toyota Announces 'Fueled by Anything' Campaign, Video, with Help from Nuvera

Hydrogenics Awarded $4.4 Million in Projects from the California Energy Commission

Carmel Valley Planning Board Approves San Diego's First Hydrogen Fueling Station

ITM Power Awarded £2.89M to Build Two New Hydrogen Refueling Stations in London

Intelligent Energy-led Consortium to Deliver Range-Extended Fuel Cell Hybrid Electric Vehicles for Fleets

Ballard Inks Deal to Supply Next-Generation Fuel Cell Power Product for Eight Buses in China

Australia's First Hydrogen Refueling Station Opens at Hyundai Office in Sydney

Air Liquide Installs Hydrogen Station at France Logistics Hub

Johnson Matthey Fuel Cell Leads Project on Closed Loop Recycling of Precious Metals in Fuel Cells

Applied Research Center in South Carolina Tests Hydrogen Fueling Dispenser, in Partnership with NIST

FuelCell Energy to Install 1.4 Megawatt Fuel Cell at Flagship Pepperidge Farm Bakery in Bloomfield, Connecticut

Hyundai FCEVs Join Transport for London Fleet

ITM Power Awarded £1.79 Million for 0.5 Megawatt Electrolyzer Tidal Energy Storage

Comcast Celebrates Earth Day by Announcing Bloom Energy Fuel Cells in Berlin, Connecticut

Hyundai Tucson FCEV Functions as Power Plant at TU Delft in Netherlands

Colorado Students Unveil FCEV for Shell Eco-Marathon

H2USA, DOE Announce New Tools for Development of Hydrogen Fueling Infrastructure
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