Hydrogen Fuel Cells

[zetreque]

Hydrogenics Achieves Major Milestone with Successful Completion of Factory Acceptance Testing
of World’s Most Powerful and Power-Dense PEM Electrolyzer

At the core of this application is a single 1500E PEM electrolyzer stack rated for 1.5 megawatts of continuous power. The system will be delivered to E.ON’s Reitbrook site in Hamburg, Germany as part of a Power-to-Gas hydrogen injection plant that will use excess renewable energy. ... This single 1.5MW stack delivers a power density of 4000 watts/litre -- a new industry benchmark.”

[zetreque]

May Headlines

FuelCell Energy Proposes 63 Megawatt Fuel Cell Park for Beacon Falls, Connecticut

Plug Power Announces Big Box Retailer as New GenKey Fuel Cell Customer

Bloom Energy to Install Fuel Cells at Equinix Silicon Valley Data Center

Toyota, Mazda Form Long-Term Partnership to Share Fuel Cell Technologies

Hydrogenics and Alstom Sign €50 Million Agreement to Develop and Commercialize Hydrogen-Powered Commuter Trains in Europe

2.6 MW of Doosan Fuel Cells Begin Operation at South Korean Utility Facility

Ballard Receives Order for Breakthrough PEM Technology Solutions Project with Nisshinbo

Germany's First Hydrogen Fueling Station on the Autobahn Begins Operation

Hyundai Announces Pricing for Tucson Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle in UK

Proton OnSite to Receive "E" Award from President Obama for Expansion of U.S. Exports

Toyota Mirai FCEV Coming to Eight California Dealerships this Fall

Plug Power Announces Master Sales Agreement with Large Footwear Manufacturer for GenKey Fuel Cell Solution

FuelCell Energy Announces Tri-Generation Solution for Production of Power, Heat, and Hydrogen for Transportation and Industry

Ballard Receives Order for Additional Next-Gen Fuel Cell Bus Module from Solaris

Linde Announces Compact Hydrogen Generator Technology

Hydrogenics Completes Factory Acceptance of German PEM Electrolyzer

Bloom Energy Recognized as Number 3 on CNBC's Disruptor 50 List

Toyota Announces Technological Breakthrough for More Efficient, Durable Fuel Cell Stacks

City of Riverside Demonstrates Environmental Leadership with Carbon Neutral On-Site FuelCell Energy Power Plant

Plug Power to Supply Uline with GenKey Fuel Cell Solution at Wisconsin Distribution Center

Linde and OMV Open Hydrogen Fueling Station in Innsbruck, Austria

Connecticut Governor Announces New Rebate for Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles

[Dave_C]

Hi z,

Plug Power Announces Big Box Retailer as New GenKey Fuel Cell Customer

...

Plug Power Announces Master Sales Agreement with Large Footwear Manufacturer for GenKey Fuel Cell Solution

...

Plug Power to Supply Uline with GenKey Fuel Cell Solution at Wisconsin Distribution Center

What do you know about Plug? I read an article a few months ago in Scientific American about some companies that are essentially "pyramid schemes". Consider a company with low or negative income but promises employees or investors large sums of money in anticipation of a sudden and significant improvement in profitability, for whatever reason. The SciAm article suggested such companies might be considered pyramid schemes. I wonder if that doesn't apply to Plug? I'd love to hear otherwise, but I've also heard a lot about their business practices which seem highly questionable.

[zetreque]

I don't know specifically about plug but I would say it's extremely common for all companies and the only difference is some actually make money. I am still surprised at how some companies can somehow keep filing bankruptcy and losing money for years, and still make public offerings and fool people into giving them more money. The best example off the top of my head for that is "Proton OnSite" formerly known as "Proton Energy" formerly known as "Distributed Energy Systems" formerly known as "several names every time they claim bankruptcy or pull some sort of scam to come up with more money, and yet they are constantly in the news for giving out scholarship to college students and claiming breakthroughs. They are even in the list of headlines I just posted.

"Proton OnSite to Receive "E" Award from President Obama for Expansion of U.S. Exports"

The problem I've noticed with many "clean energy" or "environmental" companies is the leadership has the environment in mind more than they do making a profit. That is a good thing, unless you are an investor looking for profit of course. This I know most true for the company "energy conversion devices" which I just looked up while writing this for the first time in years and I now see they are listed on the pink sheets. Can't say I'm surprised, but it's sad. They were working on thin film where they could print out solar film. I listened to several conference calls though and they really didn't have any concept of profit, they would reinvest more than they had in R&D for new ideas far and wide instead of working on existing ones.

Most companies are scammers, liars, and con artists, and the investing mechanisms we have to invest in ideas leave much to be desired because, the main one being the stock market, is not only full of deceitful companies, but the investor arena is full of traders that are all out to lie and do whatever manipulation they can to take money from people less informed than they are.

[zetreque]

In addition to the above post.

This is constantly in the news. How a small company that has tricked investors, claimed bankruptcy, and changed names to escape debt multiple times can put out 2 million into scholarships doesn't make sense to me. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth of investors as if it wasn't already hard enough to get people to invest in clean energy. It's great and all to fund education and stuff, but IMO Some of these companies have no concept of making a successful product/company because they get too sidetracked on multiple do-gooder pursuits.

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article ... /305289925

Proton OnSite of Wallingford recently gave out $36,000 in scholarships to three high school seniors as part of The Proton OnSite Scholarship and Innovation Program. The program was created to help fuel the future careers of science and technology students. Proton OnSite has awarded more than $2 million to 25 high school students over the past six years through the scholarship program, which is devoted to building the next generation of scientific innovation.

[Dave_C]

I guess I haven't looked at it as those in the company simply don't know how to make the company successful. You could be right, the leadership may simply be incompetant. From what I know, they are essentially trying to create a market where one doesn't exist yet, by competing direcly with batteries* for the material handling market. Their logic seems to be that by creating this large market, the production of fuel cell packs will increase and the higher quantities will reduce costs. With reduced costs, Plug can turn a profit. Unfortunately, from everything I've heard, Plug simply hasn't been able to turn a profit. But they're into it pretty deep now. The strategy for reducing fuel cell pack costs is to increase their market even further, hoping for improvements and cost reductions in their products. Near as I can tell, this isn't working out, though it may be improving. I'm not up on their finances to be honest.

Recently, they decided to go into the supply side as well. The concept seems to be to install the hydrogen storage and dispensing systems in an effort to reduce those costs, but from what I gather, they've run into a lot of problems that they didn't expect.

On the bright side, Toyota and Hyundai seem to be on the verge of leasing fuel cell vehicles in California and those companies have obviously been highly successful so hopefully that will worrk out!

*Batteries used in forklift fleets at large warehouses.

[Darby]

Leasing is definitely the way to go for consumers, until the technology and supply/support infrastructure expands and matures enough to be more reliable and competitive.

[zetreque]

Some June headlines. Headlines can be a little misleading, but I think its neat to just post the headlines to try to get a broad picture of the progress of the technology and glancing from month to month. A lot more infrastructure and safety regulation announcements this month.

Honda Announces Increased Focus on Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles, Commercial Launch in 2016

Doosan Corporation Wins $25 Million South Korean Contract to Supply Fuel Cells

Automakers Release Priority List of California Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

Ballard Signs $10 Million Deal for 33 Fuel Cell Electric Buses in China

Hyundai Announces Hydrogen Infrastructure Expansion in South Korea

Toyota Debuts Second in "Fueled By Everything" Mirai FCEV Video Series

Air Products Prism Hydrogen Generation Technology Goes Online at Global Tungsten & Powders

CSA Group Publishes Standards on Minimum Safety Requirements for Hydrogen

California Lawmakers Adjust Automaker Mandate for Zero Emissions Vehicles

Hawaii Natural Energy Institute Commissions Hydrogen Station at Marine Corps Base Hawaii

Air Liquide Commissions New Hydrogen Fueling Station in Isère, France

Kalibrate Delivers Hydrogen Infrastructure Planning Results to NREL

Hyundai Tucson FCEV Drivers Accumulate Mileage for Round Trip to Moon and Back

Air Products Supplies Back-up Fuel Cell Power for South African Schools

Plug Power Announces Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Expansion with Walmart Canada

Ballard Signs Framework Agreement for Fuel Cell Module Development to Power Trams in China

CTtransit Announces Purchase of 400 Kilowatt Doosan Fuel Cell

Ballard Power Announces FCvelocity-HD7 Fuel Cell for Transit Applications

Air Products Provides India's First Renewable Hydrogen Fueling Station

Dominovas Energy and Delphi Sign Solid Oxide Fuel Cell MOU

EVConnecticut Announces Hydrogen Fueling Station Grant

Hawaii Governor Signs Legislation Designating State Hydrogen Implementation Coordinator and Working Group

[Darby]

Improved efficiency and reduced cost for Ceramic Fuel Cells

[zetreque]

Improved efficiency and reduced cost for Ceramic Fuel Cells

I have been waiting for this for several years. It was Honda I think was one of the first working on it and was hoping that we would already have a fuel cell car with fueling station in our garage by now. They solved the chicken and egg fueling infrastructure for hydrogen problem by thinking they would just give their first lease customers a fueling station in their garage.

The interesting thing I think would be to figure out this...

Turning natural gas to electricity right at the site of use and on demand would eliminate all that wasted energy through transmission from a large centralized power plant. A plant that also needs to ramp up and down to meet demand and often run at less efficient uhhh RPMs?

I wonder how much energy and cost is associated with the transmission of that energy and if it is comparable enough to make up the difference for fueling your car out of your garage.

In other words. If you live in a state/area where you already get say 90% of your electricity from natural gas (such as Nevada), how much natural gas would be saved by not having to transmit it to customers and is that saved energy enough to fuel your car?

[Watson]

What sort of mechanism uses NG to get electricity? Is there something more high tech than a steam piston generator.

I have a gas stove that pumps out a lot of heat on the those cold winter days. I'm told this heating is half the price of hydro, in these parts. If that same heat could be making electricity at the same time as providing heat the electricity it provided would be free.

[zetreque]

What sort of mechanism uses NG to get electricity? Is there something more high tech than a steam piston generator.

I have a gas stove that pumps out a lot of heat on the those cold winter days. I'm told this heating is half the price of hydro, in these parts. If that same heat could be making electricity at the same time as providing heat the electricity it provided would be free.

It works through chemical reactions that strip electrons away and reroute them giving you a different product. Heat is also a byproduct and they call these systems co-generation where you can use the heat to heat your home or swimming pool. The simplest example is letting hydrogen combine with oxygen to form water and in the process the electrons are re-routed.



I think in most cases hydrogen is always split away from its reactant (natural gas in this case) for the above picture reaction example and you are left with carbon in some form, water, and heat.

[Watson]

Thanks, I looked it up. That is exactly what I was thinking of. I'll look more into it later, but what I see so far is for implementation in larger complexes. I wonder if they have something smaller scale, more residential.

[zetreque]

clearly the demand for something like this is there because I hear people get excited about it all the time when hearing about it, but the technology doesn't seem to be there yet. You can buy these systems right now but they are expensive. A friend of mine got really excited when first hearing about it wanting to install one in his RV.

I just found this. I'm not sure if it's a scam or what, but sounds great. I will have to investigate more.
http://globalenergydevices.com

[zetreque]

I just found this. I'm not sure if it's a scam or what, but sounds great. I will have to investigate more.
http://globalenergydevices.com/

Wow. I just looked around the website. It is exactly what I experimented doing several years ago (maybe the inventor ripped of my youtube video lol :D). I didn't have the time to get really into it, but I built and installed a system on my truck. I posted about it in another thread on here. viewtopic.php?f=77&t=29076&p=284395#p282763

It might be worth me spending the time to get back into it since I already had it all figured out and the "skeleton" of the system still built in my truck. I am not seeing on the website how much hydrogen those units output but I'm sure they output a lot more than mine did.

[Watson]

That does seem to good to pass up. I'll keep it in mind for another day, but I don't see how the water is not freezing at colder temps?

[zetreque]

That does seem to good to pass up. I'll keep it in mind for another day, but I don't see how the water is not freezing at colder temps?

That is and always has been a problem with fuel cells. I think the cheap electrolyte/catalyst used is something like simple table salt which at least lowers the temperature at which water freezes.

That was one of the main reasons I didn't continue on with my experiment. Life made me too busy and I just forgot about it. My containers eventually froze and broke.

[Watson]

On the web page it was talking about using distilled water, and somewhere else it mention being safe at below freezing temps. Which might be the case if in use driving. But sitting over night in the driveway, I think not, unless you are taking the reservoir of water in when not in use.

[zetreque]

The space inside the cell might be too small to worry about the water expanding and causing damage but the lines and reservoir are of concern. For sure this is a project to start in the spring time. Get it all figured out, then finalize the design before winter.

Distilled water is probably to start without minerals that will corrode the plates. You still need an electrolyte to make the water conductive otherwise you won't produce any hydrogen oxygen at all. (pure water is non-conductive)

[Watson]

Good point and not one they mentioned, just that rain or tap water would not work as well for the reasons you mentioned.

I found this for home use, so there is such a thing.

http://world.honda.com/powerproducts-te ... eneration/

[zetreque]

Good point and not one they mentioned, just that rain or tap water would not work as well for the reasons you mentioned.

I found this for home use, so there is such a thing.

http://world.honda.com/powerproducts-te ... eneration/

I almost mentioned Japan too. It's good to know my memory is still working.

After announcing the development of its first-generation household cogeneration unit in 2002, Honda teamed up with water heater manufacturers to launch household gas engine cogeneration systems in Japan in 2003. Since that time, systems have been sold through gas utilities around the country under the ECOWILL brand. Today, more and more households in Japan are adopting cogeneration systems, and a variety of systems, including those based on fuel cell technology, have also entered the market, giving families more options than ever before.

My question still stands on if energy lost transmitting power over a distance equals the energy converted from a home unit to fuel a tank of hydrogen gas for a car. Hoping someone knows some ballpark numbers for energy lost in distance traveled over power lines, or I can look this up at some point. I think it's an interesting question after reading that article Darby posted.

[Dave_C]

Progress of Calif hydrogen station Webinar.

http://www.cafcp.org/getinvolved/events ... ns_webinar

[zetreque]

Progress of Calif hydrogen station Webinar.

http://www.cafcp.org/getinvolved/events ... ns_webinar

I had that in my phone to tune in, and then I got busy and missed it. I emailed asking if it was recorded, but no response.

[zetreque]

Here is another month's snapshot of headlines in the fuel cell world along with a couple videos. I figure if anyone is interested in a certain headline they could look it up or I could provide information.





Intelligent Energy Develops Long-Lasting iPhone 6 Prototype Powered by Fuel Cells

Bloom Energy and Constellation Sign Agreement to Develop 40 Megawatts of Fuel Cell Power Across Four States

Doosan Fuel Cell Announces Fuel Cell Installation at Norco College in California

FuelCell Energy Announces Sale of 5.6 MW of Fuel Cells to POSCO Energy

Hyundai Tucson FCEV Drivers Set 24-Hour Record in Germany

SCRA Completes Landfill Gas-to-Power Project at BMW Facility in South Carolina

ITM Power Launches RWE Power-to-Gas System in Ibbenbüren, Germany

On August 12, Ballard Power and Zenyatta Ventures announced a collaboration agreement to develop high-purity graphite for fuel cell technology components.

Hydrogenics Awarded Electrolyzer, Fuel Cell Contract in Fife, Scotland

On August 21, the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Energy Association marked the 50th anniversary of NASA's Gemini 5 mission, which was the first manned spacecraft to utilize fuel cells, launching the commercial fuel cell industry.

First Toyota Mirai FCEVs Lands in United Kingdom, Europe

Doosan Provides Insider's Look at Fuel Cells for High School Energy Ambassadors

California Energy Commission Approves Grants for Fuel Cell Transport Trucks at Ports

President Obama Announces $1 Billion Expansion of Loan Guarantees for Distributed Energy Projects

Department of Energy Fuel Cell Technologies Office to Host Events at Electrochemical Energy Summit 2015
DOE Makes Slides Available for Fuel Cell Material Handling for Shaving Building Peak Energy Usage Webinar



Hyundai Tucson FCEV Drivers Set 24-Hour Record in Germany

[Darby]

Here's an interesting alternative to backup generators for residential use ... a whole house battery backup.

http://simpliphipower.com/simpliphi-power-showcases-98-efficient-storage-solutions-without-hazardous-cobalt-or-heat-mitigation-requirements-at-solar-power-international/



You could hook a bunch of advanced L-ION batteries (approx 30-50AH each) in series, pair it with a cutover, and use it in lieu of a backup generator. The system could also be paired with solar power for off-grid use.

The option will become more competitive as prices continue to drop.

[Dave_C]

Another presentation open to the public:

Progress of California's Hydrogen Stations Webinar
October 8, 2015 - Open to public

Please join the California Fuel Cell Partnership for a brown-bag webinar about the progress of California’s hydrogen stations in recognition of National Hydrogen Day.

This webinar will provide a general,
non-technical overview of

1. The development status of California’s hydrogen stations
2. A first look at several of the new stations
3. A preview of CaFCP’s new station map

Presentations will be followed by a Q&A

Thursday, October 8
12:00-1:00pm
http://cafcp.org/oct2015-h2-station-pro ... gistration

[zetreque]

Once again I will miss it. I'm going to be in Great Basin National Park studying a watershed on that day.

As I type this I am out in the middle of the forest at a university field station where they don't have any cell signal but just so happen to have internet :)

[Watson]

With all the modern technologies, and yet the neanderthal phrase, as they tried to start fire in the rain still applies today.



"This sucks!!"

[Dave_C]

Once again I will miss it. I'm going to be in Great Basin National Park studying a watershed on that day.

As I type this I am out in the middle of the forest at a university field station where they don't have any cell signal but just so happen to have internet :)

Sounds like you'll be having a lot more fun!

I'm scheduled to be away on business myself so won't be able to listen in.

You'd think they'd ask their audience if we were available...

[zetreque]

Representatives Larson, Gibson, and Tonko Introduce Legislation to Extend Fuel Cell Tax Incentives

Plug Power Supplies GenKey Solution to New Home Depot Distribution Center

Keyes Hyundai in Los Angeles Latest Dealer for Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell

FuelCell Energy Selected for $23.7 Million DOE Carbon Capture and Sequestration Project

Sandia National Laboratories, Hydrogenics Collaborate on Port of Honolulu Fuel Cell Project

Doosan Finalizes Agreement with California State University San Marcos for Fuel Cell Installation

Toyota Announces Mirai FCEV on Display in Australia for First Time

ITM Power to Supply Hydrogen for Shell at Three Retail Locations in the UK

Air Products Provides Support for Fuel Cell at Health Care Facility in South Africa

Ballard Power to Launch New Fuel Cell Power Module Configurations in 2016

French President Visits Air Liquide for Presentation on Energy Transition through Hydrogen and Biogas

Hydrogen Mobility Europe Launches with €32 Million Funding

Hyundai Presents Fuel Cell Race Car for Gran Turismo
"Weighing in at just 972 kilograms (2,143 pounds), the vehicle's power-to-weight ratio rivals most supercars.

The concept car's dual fuel cell stacks generate 500 kilowatts (kW) (670 horsepower [HP]) and the super capacitor adds 150 kW (201 HP) using energy supplied by regenerative braking. Power is delivered through four in-wheel motors."

FuelCell Energy Achieves Industry Milestone
"On September 17, FuelCell Energy announced that it's
global fleet of Direct FuelCell® (DFC®) power plants reached significant milestone by generating four billion kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity since the first commercial installation in 2003.
In the past nine months alone, DFC® power plants have generated one billion kWh of power. "

ITM Power Opens Public Hydrogen Station Next to M1 Motorway

Hyundai Developing Self-Driving Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle

ITM Power and CEME Announce Agreement to Deploy Solar Hydrogen Station

Plug Power's ReliOn Hydrogen Fuel Cell Solution Takes First Place in WAN division of CTIA E-Tech Awards

French Company Prelodis Commissions Plug Power GenDrive Units at Site in France

Norwegian Prime Minister Opens Hydrogen Filling Station at Oslo Airport