Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

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Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby toucana on January 21st, 2017, 6:29 am 

Read Wired's account of volunteer scientists in a race to preserve climate change data-sets before the Trump administration take charge:

https://www.wired.com/2017/01/rogue-scientists-race-save-climate-data-trump/

From George Takei's Twitter feed today :

"The White House removed its climate change web page, and the healthcare, civil rights and LGBT sections. Just thought you should know".
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby hyksos on January 21st, 2017, 8:18 am 

The 21st century equivalent of imprisoning Galileo.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2017, 11:21 am 

Web pages don't make good bonfires, alas!

I was just looking at the EPA's extensive information yesterday and wondered where they could put it all for safekeeping.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Braininvat on January 21st, 2017, 11:31 am 

Several members feel that I, and several others here, have been too harsh on dear old Donnie.

I really hope you all are paying attention.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2017, 12:40 pm 

Name your confederates. It might go easier on you.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Braininvat on January 21st, 2017, 2:07 pm 

Spit-take!

Wiping coffee off keyboard.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby zetreque on January 21st, 2017, 2:29 pm 

hyksos » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:18 am wrote:The 21st century equivalent of imprisoning Galileo.


Except there are far more humans on the planet now taxing resources and tampering with natural systems.


Brain, please be more specific with what you are talking about for clarification.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby someguy1 on January 21st, 2017, 4:53 pm 

Braininvat » January 21st, 2017, 9:31 am wrote:Several members feel that I, and several others here, have been too harsh on dear old Donnie.

I really hope you all are paying attention.


I will judge him on what he does, not on what leftist protesters say he is going to do. That's fair, yes? Just like we should just Obama on the fact that the US was at war every day of his two terms in office (an all time record), instead of calling him a saint based on his Nobel peace prize.

When he deletes the data, I'll criticize him for that. But if it's ok with you I will not criticize him based on anyone's fear that he'll delete the data.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Braininvat on January 21st, 2017, 5:08 pm 

When a leader's words, based on their past deeds, inspire fear in many people (I'm a moderate Independent, not a Leftist, btw, so I guess it's not just one faction that finds Trump scary), I consider this a critical gap in leadership. I am glad to know you're witholding judgment and are not a foam finger waving partisan. I'm not sure our perspectives differ that much. We both care about the integrity of science and intellectual freedom to foster robust science. If his actions follow his words spoken to date, then we will both have reason to pay close attention and bear witness. That is what my earlier post referenced, SG.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby someguy1 on January 21st, 2017, 5:32 pm 

Braininvat » January 21st, 2017, 3:08 pm wrote:When a leader's words, based on their past deeds, inspire fear in many people (I'm a moderate Independent, not a Leftist, btw, so I guess it's not just one faction that finds Trump scary), I consider this a critical gap in leadership. I am glad to know you're witholding judgment and are not a foam finger waving partisan. I'm not sure our perspectives differ that much. We both care about the integrity of science and intellectual freedom to foster robust science. If his actions follow his words spoken to date, then we will both have reason to pay close attention and bear witness. That is what my earlier post referenced, SG.


I regard myself as a moderate independent too. I've just always hated Hillary. I find Trump a refreshing breath of fresh air. I oppose many of his policies. His immigration policies and his rhetoric on Mexico are just awful, they make me sick to my stomach. But when he talks about a wall, that's not the same thing as building a wall. And you may know that Hillary (and especially "liberals" like Biden and Dianne Feinstein) have been huge proponents of the ruinous drug war that's destroyed parts of Mexico. Hillary voted for the 2006 Secure Fence act which militarized much of the border. So I simply don't see Trump as uniquely evil even though I wish someone else (besides Hillary!) had become president. My guy was Jim Webb. He lasted about five minutes in the Dem primaries.

In fact that's my main beef with liberals. Throw them a bone on social issues and they'll look the other way on war and torture. At least when Trump starts a war, the left will show up in the streets to protest. Where were the anti-war protests as Obama and Hillary blew up the Middle East?
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Lomax on January 21st, 2017, 6:05 pm 

I agree with everything you say someguy1. But there is something you do not say. What of those sections which have gone missing from the White House web page? It is not liberals or the pre-emptively fearful scientific community who are to blame for that.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby someguy1 on January 21st, 2017, 6:23 pm 

Lomax » January 21st, 2017, 4:05 pm wrote:I agree with everything you say someguy1. But there is something you do not say. What of those sections which have gone missing from the White House web page? It is not liberals or the pre-emptively fearful scientific community who are to blame for that.


The question is how emotionally worked up someone's going to get from rhetoric and web pages. Every prez changes the White House website. Obama changed Bush's White House site. Trump's rhetoric doesn't bother me compared to Hillary's actual record on the Middle East and the problems of Mexico. You can't spend the next four years going ballistic every time Trump tweets or changes a web page. Let's wait to see what he actually does. And remember, even the GOP Congress hates him. How much will he actually be able to do? People act like Trump is a dictator, but we have a system of government that's designed to be inefficient, and not only the Dems but many of the GOPs want to restrain him. I'm just not joining the hysteria. I lived through Nixon and Reagan. And Bushes 41 and 43. There's an election every four years. Next time the Dems want to win an election, let them run a better candidate and a better campaign.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2017, 7:05 pm 

someguy1 -- I find Trump a refreshing breath of fresh air.

His immigration policies and his rhetoric on Mexico are just awful, they make me sick to my stomach.

Maybe it's been too long since you encountered actual fresh air. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to make you nauseous.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby someguy1 on January 21st, 2017, 7:31 pm 

Serpent » January 21st, 2017, 5:05 pm wrote:
someguy1 -- I find Trump a refreshing breath of fresh air.

His immigration policies and his rhetoric on Mexico are just awful, they make me sick to my stomach.

Maybe it's been too long since you encountered actual fresh air. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to make you nauseous.


Hillary was fresh air? I truly don't understand that kind of thinking. What point are you making? Whose fault is Trump? I'd say it's the fault of the Dems who ran a rigged primary to nominated such a flawed candidate. I'm sorry but I just can't join in the anti-Trump hysteria. I'll wait to see what he does. I oppose many of his policies.

Politics is a practical art. You don't get ideological purity.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2017, 8:08 pm 

someguy1 » January 21st, 2017, 6:31 pm wrote:Hillary was fresh air?

No... Fresh air is air that has not been filtered through the bottom of a football locker.
Do you know the meaning of any words anymore?
Whose fault is Trump?

The US has had a badly screwed-up electoral system from the start, which everyone has known for two hundred years, but did nothing to fix. Then they let two parties take over their whole system and laughed all other contenders and independents off the political stage. They allowed the whole process to become so commercial that only very big interest blocs can afford to back candidates. They devalued, derided and alienated their intellectual, so that no hint of political or social philosophy could get a hearing and defunded alternative (non-profit) media, so that the masses could never become more politically sophisticated.
Then they sat back and watched a loud minority in a self-indulgent snit foist a predictably and thoroughly undesirable administration on them, just because it made such a great circus.

What's Clinton got to with do with it?
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby someguy1 on January 21st, 2017, 8:38 pm 

Serpent » January 21st, 2017, 6:08 pm wrote:Do you know the meaning of any words anymore?


I envy you your moral certainty. I still don't understand the point you're trying to make. If hysterical fear of Trump makes you happy, I won't get in your way. Nor will I join you.

(edit) I see that what I wrote confused you. Happy to clarify. Two things are true:

1) I applaud Trump as a breath of fresh air who blew the lid off business as usual in Washington; and

2) I strongly oppose some of his stated policies.

I don't see those as contradictory. Politics is not about moral purity. I hope my point is more clear but if not just ask. Or toss insults if that's more your style.
Last edited by someguy1 on January 21st, 2017, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Lomax on January 21st, 2017, 8:46 pm 

someguy1 » January 22nd, 2017, 12:31 am wrote:
Serpent » January 21st, 2017, 5:05 pm wrote:
someguy1 -- I find Trump a refreshing breath of fresh air.

His immigration policies and his rhetoric on Mexico are just awful, they make me sick to my stomach.

Maybe it's been too long since you encountered actual fresh air. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to make you nauseous.


Hillary was fresh air?

Many of Trump's fans are excited about somebody from outside "the establishment" to have assumed the highest office. But this is Establishment Thinking in a nutshell: to always take an attack on one side as a defense of the other.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2017, 9:04 pm 

someguy1 » January 21st, 2017, 7:38 pm wrote: Two things are true:

1) I applaud Trump as a breath of fresh air who blew the lid off business as usual in Washington; and

2) I strongly oppose some of his stated policies.

I don't see those as contradictory.


I thought they were. Sorry to have bothered you.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby wolfhnd on January 21st, 2017, 9:23 pm 

Maybe like Hillary they have something to hide.

The data belongs to the American public and I seriously doubt Trump would destroy government property. Just more fake news.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2017, 10:38 pm 

Lomax » January 21st, 2017, 7:46 pm wrote:[Maybe it's been too long since you encountered actual fresh air. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to make you nauseous.]

Many of Trump's fans are excited about somebody from outside "the establishment" to have assumed the highest office. But this is Establishment Thinking in a nutshell: to always take an attack on one side as a defense of the other.

What attack? It was a modest little joke on the words.
Where does all the other stuff come from? Why read so much more than I've written?
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Lomax on January 22nd, 2017, 12:12 am 

Serpent » January 22nd, 2017, 3:38 am wrote: Where does all the other stuff come from? Why read so much more than I've written?

Does someguy1's response not strike you as having taken your words as an attack on Trump?
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 22nd, 2017, 11:24 am 

Lomax » January 21st, 2017, 11:12 pm wrote:
Serpent » January 22nd, 2017, 3:38 am wrote: Where does all the other stuff come from? Why read so much more than I've written?

Does someguy1's response not strike you as having taken your words as an attack on Trump?


Yes, that and a lot more. Hillary, Democrats, moral certitude, hysterical fear..... Why all that? It's not the first time someone has read a volume of something entirely different between the lines I actually wrote, and I've often wondered about the viability of communication.
A second, uninvolved person's [your] characterizing my little sally as an attack merely compounded my perplexity enough to remark on.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Lomax on January 22nd, 2017, 11:33 am 

Serpent » January 22nd, 2017, 4:24 pm wrote:
Lomax » January 21st, 2017, 11:12 pm wrote:
Serpent » January 22nd, 2017, 3:38 am wrote: Where does all the other stuff come from? Why read so much more than I've written?

Does someguy1's response not strike you as having taken your words as an attack on Trump?


Yes, that and a lot more. Hillary, Democrats, moral certitude, hysterical fear..... Why all that? It's not the first time someone has read a volume of something entirely different between the lines I actually wrote, and I've often wondered about the viability of communication.
A second, uninvolved person's [your] characterizing my little sally as an attack merely compounded my perplexity enough to remark on.

Well my comment was on someguy1's reflex. Sorry if I implied that your words actually were an attack, if it matters. Either way the point I was making to someguy1 stands.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 22nd, 2017, 11:36 am 

Lomax » January 22nd, 2017, 10:33 am wrote:Well my comment was on someguy1's reflex. Sorry if I implied that your words actually were an attack, if it matters. Either way the point I was making to someguy1 stands.

Not offended, not chagrined, not damaged in any way. Mildly perplexed and always interested in the dynamics of verbal communication in different media.
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby toucana on January 23rd, 2017, 7:44 am 

In case you missed it here is a link to the story run by the Washington Post a month ago about a 74 point questionnaire sent by Trump's transition team to the Energy Department which demanded the names of all civil servants who had worked on climate change policies or had attended climate change related conferences.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/09/trump-transition-team-for-energy-department-seeks-names-of-employees-involved-in-climate-meetings/?utm_term=.a652011e21a1

The questionnaire, which one Energy Department official described as unusually “intrusive” and a matter for departmental lawyers, has raised concern that the Trump transition team is trying to figure out how to target the people, including civil servants, who have helped implement policies under Obama.


Rep. Bill Foster (D-Ill.), a physicist, warned that the questionnaire “threatens to undo decades of progress we have made on climate change,” and Sen. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) said punishing civil servants for their work under previous administrations “would be tantamount to an illegal modern-day political witch hunt and would have a profoundly chilling impact on our dedicated federal workforce.”
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Re: Scientists Race To Save Climate Data From Trump

Postby Serpent on January 23rd, 2017, 11:00 am 

And somebody is surprised, because, like the financial crisis, this could not have been predicted...?
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