Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 28th, 2017, 3:06 pm 

BTW - Who, besides Zetreque, cares about butterflies and turtles?
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby BadgerJelly on January 28th, 2017, 6:48 pm 

Serpent » January 29th, 2017, 3:06 am wrote:BTW - Who, besides Zetreque, cares about butterflies and turtles?


I nearly said something similar. I am glad Zet highlighed this, but in reality most people don't care. At least in bringing it to light I can praise Zet. As a political point in turning the tide against building a wall it is not a point that is likely going to grab peoples attention.

I care Serpent, and I am sure you do too. I think if we were to use this as a major point in swaying public opinion it may actually be deterimental. The kind of people who vote for a wall are the kind of people who deny humanities affect on the climate.

In regards to immigration I am far more worried about what Trump apparently said regarding "sanctuary cities".
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 28th, 2017, 8:20 pm 

You're right about the ecological issues. They just don't care. Well, would you expect people who allow more thousands of deep water drilling rigs after what happened in 2010 to give a damn about creatures you can't even sell for food?

I think the Monarch is done for anyway. I didn't see a single one last year - their wintering grounds are washed away or logged and their summer fields are weed- and insect-sprayed. Not many other butterflies, for that matter. Or any insects. And that means the songbirds will have nothing to eat in spring - even if they had some place to migrate to that's still got unpoisoned vegetation.

Who says you can't take it with you? Consuming culture is determined to take down the whole world.
I doubt anything that's much prettier than a cockroach will make it into the next century.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby ronjanec on January 28th, 2017, 10:20 pm 

"Sanctuary cities?" What's fair is fair right? Why don't some of you who share this ideology move illegally down to Mexico City and then get a nice job down there.

When the Mexican police come to arrest you, and possibly jail you for as much as 10 years, just burn some Mexican flags and plead "Santuary" to the Mexican people living around you, and ask them to help you out here. I just hope for your sake that the Mexican people living there("Stupid Gringo?"), also share the "same ideology" and "reasoning" as the Mexican people here claiming "Sanctuary". Please write me a letter from prison and let me know how "well" you are making out there.

I really hate to call some of you naive but...
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 28th, 2017, 10:56 pm 

It's not every day you get to see a president declare war on his own country.
Has he disbanded the Reic.... uh .... Congress yet, or are they still rolling over and playing dead?
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Forest_Dump on January 29th, 2017, 9:44 am 

While I avoid social media beyond this site, my sig other is on FaceBook and she has been monitoring some conversations regarding some in California wanting to split from the union. This led to the speculation that the other Pacific states would probably want to split off as well which then, of course, led to the question of how Canada might react if the Pacific states wanted to join Canada. Personally I have no problems with Washington and Oregon joining Canada but if California wishes to join as well, I would want a couple of conditions. California does have a history of some religious extremism. It was in California, not the Middle East, where fundamentalism began in the 1920s. So I think we would want to find some way to filter out those types - I am sure ronjanec would welcome those types to the Chicago area. Second, we could then get Trump to run the wall north along the eastern borders of the Pacific states and then east along the southern border of the Canadian prarie provinces. This could actually create a kind of wildlife corridor down the mountains particularly if we make sure there are very few gaps in the wall big enough for people to get through.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby vivian maxine on January 29th, 2017, 10:18 am 

Definitely time for me to head for Rogue River (OR) where I've always wanted to go. We could form our own little nation - Cal OR WA.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 29th, 2017, 10:29 am 

I doubt the tearaway states will ask to join Canada.
For one thing - while we're in a thread on the environment - it would mean responsibility for those god-awful pipelines and oil shipping lanes.
For another, it's not only the west coast that's having trouble with the new emperor.

Anyway, it won't come to that. Trump is creating so many conflicts and upheavals, so fast, that will very soon amount to a genuine state of emergency, so he can declare martial law. Which may have been the intention all along. How that plays out is anyone's guess. Mine projects the civil war - not so bad as the last one: both the generals and most troops will be reluctant - ending in four to eight regional entities.

I wonder how DC, and in fact, Maryland will reintegrate.

Interesting times.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 29th, 2017, 10:31 am 

vivian maxine » January 29th, 2017, 9:18 am wrote:Definitely time for me to head for Rogue River (OR) where I've always wanted to go. We could form our own little nation - Cal OR WA.


Calorwa sounds like a beautiful country! Ha - all the mid-west and south will have to negotiate for passage to the Pacific. Better start conserving water right now, LA, 'cose they've got the dams.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Forest_Dump on January 29th, 2017, 10:44 am 

Serpent wrote:Calorwa sounds like a beautiful country! Ha - all the mid-west and south will have to negotiate for passage to the Pacific. Better start conserving water right now, LA, 'cose they've got the dams.


I do kind of agree that joining Canada would be kind of unwieldly. But I wouldn't worry about the economic viability of the Pacific States of America (hows that one?). Lots of resources in them thar mountains (e.g. forestry and fishing still strong), plus the entertainment industry, computers and Silicon Valley, etc.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby vivian maxine on January 29th, 2017, 11:15 am 

Ah, but we have the Mississippi/Ohio/Missouri basin which (New Mexico or Arizona - NM, I think) governor wanted to re-route westward. Not going to happen. :-) We are the bread basket of the nation - unless you want to survive on Mexican food - most of which a Mexican mother of one of my students told me isn't even Mexican food. Even then you need our corn which is "as high as an elephant's eye".
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 29th, 2017, 11:50 am 

"Our corn.... our water...." doesn't sound like you're quite ready to up-stakes and switch regional loyalties.

But, come to think of it, Cal-Mex have strong historical, geographic and economic ties.... Hm?
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Braininvat on January 29th, 2017, 12:30 pm 

Topic drift: seems to be the trend. Happy year of the rooster everyone. I will be swapping out the monkey avatar soon. I feel pretty cocky about it.

Long live the butterflies and turtles. And let's not forget the armadillos. Cue: Robert Frost poem, "something there is that doesn't love a wall..."
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby vivian maxine on January 29th, 2017, 12:49 pm 

Serpent » January 29th, 2017, 10:50 am wrote:"Our corn.... our water...." doesn't sound like you're quite ready to up-stakes and switch regional loyalties.

But, come to think of it, Cal-Mex have strong historical, geographic and economic ties.... Hm?


I do sound a bit at sixes and sevens there, don't I? Years ago, I had a friend who lived at Rogue River. She was forever sending me leaflets and stories about the wonders of Rogue River. She really had me wanting to see it. Not move there and stay; just visit. I never did and lost track of her.

Now? Who knows. Anyway, I do think Oregon has its water, plenty of it on the western side of the range. No? So has Washington. Maybe they'd share with California?

Fun to dream anyway. As one of my neighbors says: "I'm too lazy to move." :-)

Oh, by the way, serpent, we do have our monarch butterflies here. The state conservation department has a big project of planting a particular grass - can't recall its name - that attracts monarchs. Property owners are cooperating and reports are good so far.
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Re: Trumps env disaster wall needs to stop!!!!

Postby Serpent on January 29th, 2017, 6:29 pm 

We've had a big push, over the last several years, of planting milkweed. They're giving out seeds at the library and telling schoolchildren all about it..... after decades of eradication. It became sparse, but never really stopped growing in wild places, except for early in the 2000's when some kind of blight hit this area and very few milkweed plants survived long enough to develop seed pods.

Anyway, I know people in various places are trying to help out the Monarch. Only, they can't teach the stupid little insects to go where it's safe or keep them from attempting to migrate where it isn't. Plus, the weather becomes yearly less predictable, so we don't know ourselves where it's safe.

I imagine the situation is similar with fish, turtles, snakes, lizards and all kinds of birds. Habitat loss, chemical spray, light pollution, altered wind and temperature patterns.... It's a tough life out there.
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