Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

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Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby toucana on January 28th, 2017, 9:02 am 

Google have recalled travelling staff members to the US after an executive order from President Trump restricting entry of nationals of seven Muslim majority countries.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420

Syrian refugees are banned from entry until further notice.

Visas for nationals of six countries, including Iran and Iraq, will not be issued for the next three months.

The new restrictions will have a major impact on technology companies that hire skilled staff from all over the world on special H1-B visas.

There have already been reports of "green card" holders, who are allowed to work in the US, being prevented from getting on flights.

Google has recalled around 100 of its affected staff from overseas. Microsoft has warned its shareholders that curbs on immigration could have a material impact on its business.

The sudden and severe immigration restrictions imposed on passport holders from seven Muslim countries could seriously demonstrate the law of unintended consequences.

One thought provoking reflection is that laws of this type would have prevented Steve Jobs the visionary founder of Apple from becoming an American citizen - His biological father was Abdulfattah Jandali (b.1931) who was a Muslim born at Homs in Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 28th, 2017, 9:24 am 

Toucans, thank you for that well-coordinated and documented report. It helps one keep up with what is really happening instead of what rumor says is happening.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Braininvat on January 28th, 2017, 10:57 am 

Thanks! Precious and few are the moments we, Toucana share!

It's interesting to me that there has not been one single terrorist event in the U.S. where a Syrian immigrant was involved...and the overall crime rate among immigrants is considerably lower than among the general U.S. population.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Forest_Dump on January 28th, 2017, 11:45 am 

I wonder how much our conversations would be different if similar measures had been taken in the past such as banning immigrants from previously hostile countries such as Germany around WW1, Italy when it was fascist, Soviet block countries, etc. I exclude Japan because they were all rounded up uring WW2 to prevent terrorism but imagine the world if citizens from Italy and Germany were treated the same.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 28th, 2017, 12:03 pm 

Forest_Dump » January 28th, 2017, 10:45 am wrote:I wonder how much our conversations would be different if similar measures had been taken in the past such as banning immigrants from previously hostile countries such as Germany around WW1, Italy when it was fascist, Soviet block countries, etc. I exclude Japan because they were all rounded up uring WW2 to prevent terrorism but imagine the world if citizens from Italy and Germany were treated the same.


German Americans were also detained during WW II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internmen ... _Americans
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Forest_Dump on January 28th, 2017, 12:17 pm 

Actually there was a camp very near here for detaining unemployed immigrants during the 1930s.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 28th, 2017, 12:31 pm 

Forest_Dump » January 28th, 2017, 11:17 am wrote:Actually there was a camp very near here for detaining unemployed immigrants during the 1930s.


And CCC camps all over the country for unemployed youth. Those young men did a lot of good in building park systems and goodness knows what else. I'm most familiar the parks work because that seems to be most of what they did in Missouri. The group still has an annual meeting for the ones still living.

Back to the immigrants, though, we had a German prisoner of war camp here in Missouri. One prisoner had been sent to work on a nearby farm. He fit into the family well and liked it so much that, after the war when he was told he could go home, he refused t go. He continued to work for that family until he was too old do work any more.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Forest_Dump on January 28th, 2017, 12:51 pm 

Indeed it seems that even immigrants from suspect and terrorist countries can fit in and become model citizens and, in fact, are what the country is all about. Granted there are some bad seeds that continue to do wrong and join groups like the IRA, JDL or KKK but most contribute positively. You'd think we'd learn.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Serpent on January 28th, 2017, 2:13 pm 

When do the concentration camps begin operations? I guess it would be appropriate to appropriate non-oil-producing national and state parks for the purpose.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby ronjanec on January 28th, 2017, 3:32 pm 

Many people in Europe, also had the same good intentions and the same liberal political ideologies as many of you, and were also completely in favor of the migrants from the Middle East coming to their countries as it seems do many of you , or what is now known today in Europe as 'the welcoming culture', or the 'open borders to all' ideology(and the BBC was one of the biggest supporters of the same from what I understand) Yet today, many places in Europe have now changed for the far worse in a number of different ways since what is now officially called 'the migrant crisis' began;

Everyone is of course aware of the multiple terrorist attacks that have happened in Europe in the past two years, that were many times caused by this 'open borders' come one come all migrant mindset from the Middle East. Once safe and beautiful Sweden is now known as the rape capitiol of the western world, where the Swedish women are now afraid to go out at night in many areas because of the same migrants. There are also in Sweden lawless 'no go' zones where even the police are afraid to go because of the many migrants.

And while not as bad as in Sweden(or at least not yet) the same type of thing is happening in many countries all over Europe because of the now past tense 'come one come all open borders' migrant policy'. "What have these idiots done to us!?" millions of people in Europe are now complaining, blaming their governments, the news media, and yes, people who are now mostly former members of 'the welcoming culture' mindset.

President Trump is right about this, just like he is right about many of the other things that many of you are complaining about here. We don't want to also end up like Sweden, France, Germany, Austria, Greece, Italy, Holland, Belgium, and yes, even the U.K.(why do you think so many voted to "Leave" the very foolish Europeon Union a few months ago and shocked the whole world?)

You want me to post links for this, or to a story that I have been following personally for the last two years? How many do you want? I have an absolute ton of them. After I post them, will they just be met with silence as has happened to me in the past after I was stuck doing all the work?

How come it at least appears that many of you are not aware of what is actually going in Europe, and seem to all be in favor of making the same kind of mistakes here in the US?

The MSM here and in Europe, are doing everything in their power to cover this up, and if you only read the MSM here you probably won't be aware of what is actually going on there.

In Europe, it is a much different story now for many despite the government and media cover up, because many of them are actually experiencing this first hand in their daily lives in a number of different areas, and are really up in arms about this in the few places that they are still allowed to complain about this(some websites and their comment sections, sometimes Facebook posts where the government does not censor this, Town hall meetings, protests, etc.)
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 28th, 2017, 4:01 pm 

It is time I asked. What is MSM?
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Serpent on January 28th, 2017, 4:07 pm 

Main Stream Media?

I would guess, all those lyin', cheatin' makin'-up-bad-stuff organizations that were so unconscionably biassed against Trump as to actually broadcast actual videos of his actual speeches that didn't show him in a favourable light - which, to the media's discredit, is all of them.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby ronjanec on January 28th, 2017, 4:10 pm 

vivian maxine » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:01 pm wrote:It is time I asked. What is MSM?


Main Stream Media Vivian: CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC, NYT, Time, NewsWeek, any media out of Hollywood etc. Just about everything your average person in the US reads or watches comes almost exclusively from the MSM.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 28th, 2017, 4:14 pm 

ronjanec » January 28th, 2017, 3:10 pm wrote:
vivian maxine » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:01 pm wrote:It is time I asked. What is MSM?


Main Stream Media Vivian: CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC, NYT, Time, NewsWeek, any media out of Hollywood etc.


OK But media out of Hollywood? That one shouldn't fit.

No matter. Thanks.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby ronjanec on January 28th, 2017, 4:19 pm 

vivian maxine » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:14 pm wrote:
ronjanec » January 28th, 2017, 3:10 pm wrote:
vivian maxine » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:01 pm wrote:It is time I asked. What is MSM?


Main Stream Media Vivian: CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC, NPR, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC, NYT, Time, NewsWeek, any media out of Hollywood etc.


OK But media out of Hollywood? That one shouldn't fit.

No matter. Thanks.


Any of the entertainment news, reporting, and commentary coming out of Hollywood would also be considered main stream media news outlets Vivian.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 28th, 2017, 4:31 pm 

I suppose. Just hadn't thought about it. Thanks
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby toucana on January 28th, 2017, 5:00 pm 

Given that a large majority of the 9/11 attackers came from Saudi Arabia, which is also the spiritual home of the extreme Wahabi movement that inspired both Al Qaeda and the Taliban movement, you might reasonably ask why Saudi Arabia isn't on the block list as well ?

It couldn't possibly be because they buy a lot of American arms exports could it ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-muslim-ban-saudi-arabia-executive-order-islam-migrants-syria-sudan-somalia-iraq-iran-libya-a7547531.html
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Braininvat on January 28th, 2017, 5:50 pm 

You want me to post links for this, or to a story that I have been following personally for the last two years? How many do you want? I have an absolute ton of them. After I post them, will they just be met with silence as has happened to me in the past after I was stuck doing all the work?


Here's a hint: people will respond to stories written by reputable journalists who have the respect of their peers and reliably provide factual material from primary sources (i.e. not secondhand information, not rumors or hearsay) and which are formal reporting and do not contain editorializing of any kind. Many reputable newspapers and wire services provide such stories. If you provide such stories, without inserting your own conspiracy theories or any rightwing babble about secret cabals to form a world government or any partisan comments of any kind, IOW just facts, then you might get more than silence.

If you do not understand the criteria for solid news reportage, I will start a thread. I was raised by parents who both worked as newspaper reporters and had the highest dedication to getting accurate information, indeed the sort of people who wanted to shoot themselves if they got a detail wrong or let a telling question go unasked. Many of the people who create online "news" blogs are simply writing opinion columns. It is very important to be able to distinguish between Op-Ed stuff and straight news. I've had the privilege to know and learn from people who spent decades honing their skills in keeping the two separate. There are many sources that do this well, from Reuters to the Houston Chronicle. Even the NYT you are so suspicious of, frequently fires reporters who don't get the facts and represent them accurately.

Good luck.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby ronjanec on January 28th, 2017, 10:00 pm 

Biv,

I appreciate your response to my post, and I will try to take to take you up on at least some of the things you recommended here. Actually, I have already added 'Reuters' to my favorites list, and I will start to check out their stories on a daily basis.

The rest of the MSM and their "reputable" journalists including my own local newspapers? I still have to sometimes post links to their stories here, but they are much too far gone for me to ever trust them again or use the word "reputable" in any sentence describing them(your parents were probably from a much different and much better generation of MSM journalists Biv)

And to add to their very long list of sins, they also truly despise and try to unfairly ostericize and slander Evangelical Christians like myself, or again are a modern day version of 'Der Sturmer' at least in regards to us, or out and out religious bigots. There are at least 75 million of us in this country, and hopefully we can put a stop to at least some of this nonsense with President Trump and Vice President Pence now in charge.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby toucana on January 28th, 2017, 10:52 pm 

If you believe that Donald Trump is either a Christian, or an evangelical one at that, then you might want to read this article called The Theology of Donald Trump published March 2016 in Christianity Today. It was written by Michael Horton who is J.G Machen Professor of Theology at Westminster Seminary California.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/march-web-only/theology-of-donald-trump.html?start=1

The author singles out four key terms that are of particular concern to him as a professional theologian:

1. Creation. Trump reveals that many evangelicals have come to embrace a new doctrine of creation, according to which the state accords basic rights instead of recognizing their dignity as fellow image-bearers of God. Hence, the support of the torture of human beings (and perhaps their relatives) as legitimate state policy; this is entirely justified to some by the circumstances of an unlimited war on terror. Never mind the Christian just-war tradition that has undergirded centuries of Western reflection. And given the apparent failure of even his most recent ambiguous statements about the KKK to diminish support among his base, Trump reveals that America’s unfinished task of wrestling honestly with racism is just as clearly mirrored in some parts of evangelicalism.

2. Sin. Trump reveals that many evangelicals have come to embrace a different idea of sin than evangelicals have in the past. First, sin is now seen less a condition that renders us all “miserable offenders” before a holy God than mistakes good people make that fail to contribute to “our best life now.” Card-carrying evangelicals should have gotten it when Trump announced that he has never asked God for forgiveness because he doesn’t really do anything that would require it. This is problematic from a Christian perspective on several levels.

3. Christ. Jesus has become a brand and cultural-political mascot. The term “evangelical” used to mean that the global community of those “from every tribe, tongue, and nation” (Rev. 5:9) were united by “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4:5) through faith in Christ alone as the all-sufficient Savior from the condemnation and death that our sins deserve. Our ultimate demographic is “in Christ.” This trumps (no pun intended) our identity as Americans, or as Democrats and Republicans. But Trump reminds us that many who call themselves evangelicals today find their ultimate loyalty in preserving or regaining a lost socio-political and cultural, perhaps even racial, hegemony in an increasingly diverse society.

4. Leadership. Trump reveals that “godly leadership” is apparently for some evangelicals the celebration of narcissism, greed, and deceitfulness in the pursuit of power. They like Trump’s “strong leadership” and ability to “get things done.” They seem to value pragmatism over anything else.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby ronjanec on January 28th, 2017, 11:00 pm 

For once, no argument here Toucana. We Christians have been very concerned about his personal beliefs since many of us started supporting him. But actions today speak louder than previous words, and I imagine that most of us are very pleased with what he is doing right now(And Pence is definitely one of us so there is also that)
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby toucana on January 28th, 2017, 11:27 pm 

A US judge has issued a stay temporarily halting the deportation of visa holders or refugees under an executive order from President Trump.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38786660

The ruling, from Judge Ann Donnelly, prevented the removal from the US of people with approved refugee applications, valid visas, and "other individuals... legally authorised to enter the United States".

"This is a remarkable day," said the ACLU's executive director, Anthony Romero.

"On day one after he signed the executive order, we took him to court… that it was unconstitutional, that it was un-American, and that it flew in the face of established statutes that we have long regarded in this country."

"What we've shown today is that the courts can work... they're a bulwark in our democracy, and when President Trump enacts laws or executive orders that are unconstitutional and illegal, the courts are there to protect everyone's rights."
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Serpent on January 29th, 2017, 12:17 am 

Is he planning to rule by fiat his whole term, or just until the impeachment?
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Lomax on January 29th, 2017, 12:47 am 

It''s quite true that migrants are overly prevalent in German crime statistics, for instance, but there's no more reason for the US should to base its policy purely on that of Germany than there is for it to base its policy purely on that of, say, Japan (where Chinese seem to commit crime disproportionately) or, say, the UK, where nationals commit more crime proportionately than immigrants do. What I'm saying is that Ronjanec (and Trump) are cherry-picking, rather than thinking statistically.

As for why Britain voted to leave the EU, I think it just needs to be noted that xenophobia far predates our latest involvements in the Middle East. When I was a child it was said immigrants were "stealing our jobs"; now it is complained that they are layabouts, receiving unemployment benefit and "adding to the demand". Beware such unfalsifiable positions as this. By their arguments ye shall know them.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 29th, 2017, 9:20 am 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/r ... f=cta&_r=0

Looks a bit confusing to me. The judge's ruling "stopped short of letting them into the country" but banned them being returned to their country of origin if they had proper papers, green cards, visas, etc. So, where do they go now?

It was a ruling that affects 100 to 200 people. Which people considering how many were being detained? Does her ruling affect only that particular airport or does it rebound to all the others around the country - as it seems to be doing?

The judge also refrained from issuing a ruling on the constitutionality of Mr. Trump's order. That, I suppose, will be the job of the Supreme Court - another interesting story to watch and much can happen between now and then.

Meanwhile, President Trump thought all was going well. "It is all going very nicely. You can see it at the airports." Hmmm? I can't even begin to interpret that. Nicely for whom? And which part is "nicely"?

Anyone else confused? Sometimes it's hard for the media to give us all the facts when they try their best to give us all the facts.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby BioWizard on January 29th, 2017, 9:45 am 

Why would anyone still think that statistical speak matters to most people, or that it could sway their political positions in any way? If 100 crimes come from their nationals, and 1 from immigrants, and they have no sympathy for the immigrants, they'll still want to get rid of the 1 coming from the immigrants first (a.k.a get rid of the immigrants), because they perceive that as a problem they don't need to have, a problem that is not necessarily theirs. I've found numbers and logic to be very poor tools for swaying people who don't use them very often. If you want to change people's minds, you might need to dig deeper and treat their value system. And if you can't, well then that's that. How anyone feels someone else should be treated is a direct consequence of their morality and sympathy towards others, their sense of human rights and decency. Beyond that, everyone just finds whatever numbers suit their agenda. So before people go out and find numbers, sides must first agree on what matters and what doesn't - if the purpose of said numbers is to make an actionable decision. Otherwise, it's just an exercise in futility, as we see here day in and day out. Until then, everybody's numbers are bullshit. Everybody's. Just ask either side.

People's political opinions cannot be dealt with using scientific approaches. They just can't. Trump proved it, and Brexit before him. Now wake up, and look for better tools.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Forest_Dump on January 29th, 2017, 10:23 am 

BioWizard wrote:Why would anyone still think that statistical speak matters to most people, or that it could sway their political positions in any way?


I don't think history or any notion of fair play metters to these people either. Virtually the entire history of the US consists of unpopular and sometimes extremist groups (e.g., the original protestant Pilgrims, Puritants, etc.) fleeing or being forced out of Europe and often facing various degrees of persecution and hostility in the New World. But if there is anything to be proud of in the New World it is only because these groups did manage to get past the discrimination they faced here and created a more positive world. In the various places I have lived, some of groups who have faced discrimination in the past have included the Irish, Scots, United Empire Loyalists, Ukranians, Swedes, Finns, Poles, Jamaicans, Germans, South Asians, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, etc. All have been accused of bringing in alien and disruptive values, promoting various levels of violence, etc. Where I live, we are just beginning to address the catastrophic damage caused by the forced adoption of "Christian" values that destroyed tradional family values, the work ethic and economy, etc. Trump's big stated fear seems to be Muslims (although I don't really believe that- I think it is just finding a convenient scapegoat). I have met many and although some may certainly be intolerant, ignorant and bigoted, the overwhelming majority were great people and I had absolutely no problem having them as neighbours and colleagues. But some seem to prefer hatred and fear and no amount of facts or logic seems to sway them. So sad.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby toucana on January 29th, 2017, 10:45 am 

One of the people affected by the US visa clamp-down is Sir Mo Farah the British 5000m and 10000m distance runner who is a four times Olympic champion.

http://news.sky.com/story/mo-farah-trump-seems-to-have-made-me-an-alien-10747471

Although he is a British citizen and holds a British passport, he was born in Somalia, one of seven muslim majority countries whose citizens are now banned from entering USA for 90 days. Sir Mo Farah who is currently on a trip to Ethiopia fears that he may unable to return to his wife and four children who live in Portland Oregon where they have been resident for the last six years.

Transit passengers whose flights were scheduled to make stop-over landings on US soil are also being refused permission to board US bound flights, even though transit passengers never leave the secure area of the airport terminus. A British veterinarian student Hamaseh Tayari who is a British resident travelling on an Iranian passport was left stranded in Costa Rica after being turned away from her holiday flight home to Glasgow UK because the flight was due to stop-over in New York. She and her b/f were trying to find an alternative flight routing home to UK at vast extra expense.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167900/Sir-Mo-Farah-faces-BANNED-returning-America.html

British opposition leaders in parliament have called for plans to welcome Donald Trump to UK on a state visit to be scrapped immediately in the wake of the travel ban which Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has described as "Divisive and wrong".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38786576
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby vivian maxine on January 29th, 2017, 11:03 am 

But, Forest, didn't almost all of those groups, in turn, discriminate against members of some other of those groups. The Puritans certainly did. Protestant groups against Catholic groups. Caucasian against oriental and/or Black or Brown.

Wouldn't you think that those who suffered such discrimination in Europe would have had a different attitude toward "others" here? It didn't happen and still isn't doing a very good job as we are currently witnessing. This discrimination against Mexico versus our total acceptance of our neighbors to the north is a very good example. Trade agreements with Canada have always proliferated; Mexico? No such thing. A sign at the Washington / British Columbia border says we are brothers; "children of the same mother". Mexico? A wall. You want to point out the Alamo. We have a few battles with Canada also but those are forgiven and forgotten. And dare I mention the British Canadians and the French Canadians? Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Spanish Mexicans discriminate against the native Indian Mexicans.

Why this discrimination? The Mexicans speak a different language and are of a different racial mixture. So we discriminate against them. "Different" is the clue. If our neighbors are in any way "different" we discriminate. One man, in his madness, creates a war against Germany and we immediately have not use for the "huns".

Discrimination. We cannot even logically explain why we do it? Other than point out their faults. of course, "we" have no such faults.
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Re: Google Recall Staff After Trump Order

Postby Braininvat on January 29th, 2017, 11:12 am 

.... In the various places I have lived, some of groups who have faced discrimination in the past have included the Irish, Scots, United Empire Loyalists, Ukranians, Swedes, Finns, Poles, Jamaicans, Germans, South Asians, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, etc. All have been accused of bringing in alien and disruptive values,



Finns? As one who had Finnish neighbors/friends and relatives on my wife's side, I am hard put to imagine the fear and loathing factors there. Is it their decadent attachment to saunas? Their penchant for pouring cream sauces on fish? Or the suspicious habit of putting "-onen" at the end of surnames.


Biowizard, good advice on stats, which I may take to heart.
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