'Pray For Sweden'

[zetreque]

zetreque,

You get your information about Sweden from your childhood friends? I sure hope they get around a lot. :)

They are laughing at the idiots buying into this Swedish terrorist migrant garbage and terrified that people are that dumb.

[ronjanec]

From what I have been reading, and they are good looking Swedish women, they have a lot more to be terrified of than just idiots. Tell them to make sure they avoid the summer music concerts there. Yes I know, it's one of those far right and very biased fake news sites but tell them to be careful anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/worl ... .html?_r=0

[zetreque]

From what I have been reading, and they are good looking Swedish women, they have a lot more to be terrified of than just idiots. Tell them to make sure they avoid the summer music concerts. Yes I know, it's one of those far right and very biased fake news sites but tell them to be careful anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/worl ... .html?_r=0

ronjanec, the moon is one giant cheeseburger. If you move there you will never starve.

[ronjanec]

If it was a bacon cheeseburger, or a sausage pizza, I would definitely have to consider it. I guess you consider that story from the New York Times "fake news" right?

[zetreque]

If it was a bacon cheeseburger, or a sausage pizza, I would definitely have to consider it. I guess you consider that story from the New York Times "fake news" right?

I consider your entire argument in line with Trumps entire portrait which is fabrication, lies, alternative facts, and vague statements into fear mongering and garbage. The actual issues that are at the root of what's going on is completely absent from this. So I might as well be talking about moon cheeseburgers.

Circumstantial = (of evidence or a legal case) pointing indirectly toward someone's guilt but not conclusively proving it. Relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact.

aka, posting an article about an incident of rape in Sweden in support of erroneous and vague statements about a random country selected by Trump to back up his opinion.

You are losing sight of the original purpose of this thread and the fact Trump even admitted to where he got his information from (I biased news source reporting on a documentary film maker)

[ronjanec]

I could probably post at least another twenty or so links about what is actually going on Sweden despite what you just believe...any interest? :)

[zetreque]

I could probably post at least another twenty or so links about what is actually going on Sweden despite what you just believe...any interest? :)

All the links in the world and it's still possible to not be able to have an intelligent conversation about poverty, minorities, oppression, culture clash and violence. And why we should be working on issues of population growth and coexisting in the world rather than dealing with an imbecile in the white house who thinks building walls and mouthing off vague dishonest statements, and verbally attacking people in vague statements is going to solve problems.

Try facts, and evidence. We are on a science forum after all.

[zetreque]

From what I have been reading, and they are good looking Swedish women, they have a lot more to be terrified of than just idiots. Tell them to make sure they avoid the summer music concerts there. Yes I know, it's one of those far right and very biased fake news sites but tell them to be careful anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/worl ... .html?_r=0

here is a thought. Let people speak for themselves rather than trying to infer a situation about a country to which you have probably never visited.

Here is something else to consider.
Statistics: the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

[ronjanec]

I just noticed that wolfhnd also posted a link earlier about this from 'the Guardian', or another very well respected lefty source. You do not consider that fact or evidence either? We are not talking about links from a couple of Alt Right websites which I see you guys complaining about all the time.

[zetreque]

I just noticed that wolfhnd also posted a link earlier about this from 'the Guardian', or another very well respected lefty source. You do not consider that fact or evidence either? We are not talking about links from a couple of Alt Right websites which I see you guys complaining about all the time.

If aliens were to monitor us, they might consider dogs to be the leaders since humans go around picking up their feces.

[ronjanec]

The problem with "statistics" is sometimes people and governments play around with the numbers or data to make their argument look much better than it should be.

[zetreque]

The problem with "statistics" is sometimes people and governments play around with the numbers or data to make their argument look much better than it should be.

And the problem with opinions is they can be anything you want them to be.

[ronjanec]

Case in point zetreque: "Chicago's yearly murder numbers are still down from the 1990's!" They "forget" to mention that the population of Chicago has also decreased by hundreds of thousands from the 1990's :)

[ronjanec]

The problem with "statistics" is sometimes people and governments play around with the numbers or data to make their argument look much better than it should be.

And the problem with opinions is they can be anything you want them to be.

True. But if your "opinions" are always wrong or silly, you will lose all credibility with anyone who has a brain.

[zetreque]

The problem with "statistics" is sometimes people and governments play around with the numbers or data to make their argument look much better than it should be.

And the problem with opinions is they can be anything you want them to be.

True. But if your "opinions" are always wrong or silly, you will lose all credibility with anyone who has a brain.

Speaking of which... I'm done here.

[ronjanec]

Me too: Have a good night zetreque, despite your sarcasm. :)

[toucana]

CNN ran a segment where they interviewed film-maker Ami Horowitz in person over his controversial documentary about immigration and crime rates in Sweden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UgKY5j8YLs

It makes entertaining viewing.

The CNN anchor Don Lemon asked Ami Horowitz if his eyes and ears were working properly after the film-maker continued to insist that Sweden had suffered a 50% increase in violent crime and rape since 2006 even after he was shown copies of stats by both the US State Department and the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brottsförebyggande rådet - Brå) which flatly contradicted his assertions.

[Braininvat]

Any thread where anecdotes are presented as evidence should be locked. Absent broadly gathered statistics on the rate of bum fondling and groping at music festivals and rock concerts, the Norkkoping concert story is anecdotal, and the only fact reported by the NYT was "police are investigating." If actual statistics existed on ethnicity and groping at music events, to be scientific, they would have to consider differential rates of reporting along lines of ethnic origin. If that thought didn't cross your mind, or you don't realize the implications for scientific data collection, you shouldn't be posting here at SPCF as someone who purports to understand statistical analysis, or facts generally. If I see any more sloppy partisan garbage here, I will lock the thread.

[Forest_Dump]

Absent broadly gathered statistics on the rate of bum fondling and groping at music festivals and rock concerts,

I guess we all fall prey to stereotypes. When I read that line I instantly thought of the old (?) stereotype of some Europeans (Italians or French?) who were believed to always do that, particularly to waitresses, etc.

[Athena]

It's kind of hard to explain what is going on but this guy gives it a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYVupORiasQ

I almost didn't watch this because the young man is so intentionally offensive, but you all made some really decent post, so I grit my teeth and listened. He makes some good points, such as speaking of creating an uncomfortable culture. An uncomfortable culture? "What the **** are talking about? You **** suck." I have to admit that is funny, but to me, that is also pretty uncomfortable. When he gets to ejaculation I couldn't go any further. This is a huge contrast to the Maya Angelou show I watched last night. She was so adamant about being respectful she would tell guest at parties in her home to leave if they spoke disrespectfully. Might there be a connection between this verbal disrespect and other forms of disrespecting people? You can pick your side, but this is not peace.

[Athena]

Any thread where anecdotes are presented as evidence should be locked. Absent broadly gathered statistics on the rate of bum fondling and groping at music festivals and rock concerts, the Norkkoping concert story is anecdotal, and the only fact reported by the NYT was "police are investigating." If actual statistics existed on ethnicity and groping at music events, to be scientific, they would have to consider differential rates of reporting along lines of ethnic origin. If that thought didn't cross your mind, or you don't realize the implications for scientific data collection, you shouldn't be posting here at SPCF as someone who purports to understand statistical analysis, or facts generally. If I see any more sloppy partisan garbage here, I will lock the thread.

Whoo, how did we come to this? The first several posts I read were very civil. It saddens me that the thread deteriorated to this.

I am sorry if my sensitivities are offensive but I have been reading very old books about how to behave, and the offensive You Tube mentioning creating an uncomfortable culture, made me start thinking even more about the importance of being respectful, and now I read "If I see any more sloppy partisan garbage here, I will lock the thread". That is a Trump style statement, not a respectful one, so who is creating an environment where Trump is elected as our president? Look at our choices? Are we protecting respectfulness and reason or brute and aggressive power? Am I just being overly sensitive or did our slide into aggressive disrespect of others created an uncomfortable culture where someone like Trump could float to the top?

[Athena]

CNN ran a segment where they interviewed film-maker Ami Horowitz in person over his controversial documentary about immigration and crime rates in Sweden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UgKY5j8YLs

It makes entertaining viewing.

The CNN anchor Don Lemon asked Ami Horowitz if his eyes and ears were working properly after the film-maker continued to insist that Sweden had suffered a 50% increase in violent crime and rape since 2006 even after he was shown copies of stats by both the US State Department and the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brottsförebyggande rådet - Brå) which flatly contradicted his assertions.

Which came first, our tolerance for disrespect and unethical behaviors or youtube?

[Forest_Dump]

Which came first, our tolerance for disrespect and unethical behaviors or youtube?

There is an interesting angle here, one that some I have need reading have suggested might be part of Trump's "genius" at play. From him we are continuuing to get an unimagineable stream of outrageous lies, bad logic, etc., that we are getting so over-whelmed that 1) we are getting immune to it and 2) changing our expectations. As someone pointed out, the "right" used to express outrage at Bill Clinton's sexual mistakes but is now accepting Trump's "full bladder" fetish and admitted groping. They used to tub thump on every lie by Clinton or Obama but accept and rationalize the many, many by Trump (as Stalin is reported to have said, one murder is an atrocity but a million murders just becomes a statistic). They accused Obama of being soft on the Russians but accept the many influences on Trump. They would go into near hysterics over any perceived slight against the military but learned to accept Trump tearing into McCain's military career or taking shots at a Silver Star mother. It is the sheer number at assaults on all forms of common decency and common sense that has become so over-whelming that not only are we accepting a lowering of the bar but actually removing th bar altogether. We used to actually look very closely at anyone who seemed to be attempting to be on a higher moral ground. Now we have trouble even imagining that there is a hgher moral ground.

[Athena]

Which came first, our tolerance for disrespect and unethical behaviors or youtube?

There is an interesting angle here, one that some I have need reading have suggested might be part of Trump's "genius" at play. From him we are continuuing to get an unimagineable stream of outrageous lies, bad logic, etc., that we are getting so over-whelmed that 1) we are getting immune to it and 2) changing our expectations. As someone pointed out, the "right" used to express outrage at Bill Clinton's sexual mistakes but is now accepting Trump's "full bladder" fetish and admitted groping. They used to tub thump on every lie by Clinton or Obama but accept and rationalize the many, many by Trump (as Stalin is reported to have said, one murder is an atrocity but a million murders just becomes a statistic). They accused Obama of being soft on the Russians but accept the many influences on Trump. They would go into near hysterics over any perceived slight against the military but learned to accept Trump tearing into McCain's military career or taking shots at a Silver Star mother. It is the sheer number at assaults on all forms of common decency and common sense that has become so over-whelming that not only are we accepting a lowering of the bar but actually removing th bar altogether. We used to actually look very closely at anyone who seemed to be attempting to be on a higher moral ground. Now we have trouble even imagining that there is a hgher moral ground.

I know everyone is tired of me saying this, but we were not always like this and I think education is the reason we were different in the past. We had education for good moral judgment. This put reason above religion, and education for technology ended that past education and left moral training solely to the church, which gladly took moral authority from those who promoted the powers of reason. The cry began that public education should have nothing to do with teaching morality, and so the perversion of our democracy began.

We have forgotten the connection between morals and reason, and what that has to do with being a democracy, and responsible for government, rather than being subjects. We have forgotten the role of journalists as defenders of our democracy who acted on a high standard of investigation and telling the truth.

I am going to present some old news so that we have a better understanding of the media corruption that we experience today. I would start this story with Eisenhower and his administration's establishment of the Military Industrial complex that created new links between research, media, and government, and radically changed public education, but I assume you all are tired of me beating this drum, so I will just add to it the following rise and fall of Dan Rather. If you only have time for one link, jump to the last one, but then you will miss the important Reagan, Bush and the fall of Dan Rather ties to what has happened to our media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgwxjG7y9eE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW0gGy_95Qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfWkFORwJ-c

[wolfhnd]

Athena

In general I agree but it would be hard to argue that the people in politics and the media were not well educated or that they are ethical?

[Athena]

Athena

In general I agree but it would be hard to argue that the people in politics and the media were not well educated or that they are ethical?

Smile, that depends on what we consider being well educated. I would argue that people have not been well educated since 1958 and that those with college educations since then may even have had educations for immorality. I know my past Public Administration Professor who advised his students to go along with anything superiors said, was good for education in Nazi, Germany but not education in the US.