UK Election

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Re: UK Election

Postby BadgerJelly on June 8th, 2017, 10:55 pm 

WELL! Looking at the results coming in I am happy :)

Tories no landslide victory and maybe no victory at all.
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Re: UK Election

Postby toucana on June 9th, 2017, 1:42 pm 

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Re: UK Election

Postby BadgerJelly on June 9th, 2017, 2:19 pm 

Ironically in a way the UK now at least has a strong opposition (an opposition that differs from the current government quite dramatically in many ways) which means a strong democracy for the future of the UK.

The interview with the Shadow blah blah for Foreign trade on the Labour party made me piss myself, just have to post it! ...

He is PISSED OFF!! HAHAHA!! XD Bless 'im!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K14tOw2Ci2U

Looking forward to see if the young 'uns voted more.
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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 9th, 2017, 10:37 pm 

Theresa May is claiming she will form a government with the backing of the Creationist-infested, climate change denying, anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage DUP.

Would that Mr Fish Finger had won his seat at Westmorland and Lonsdale. One more victory for the establishment.

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Re: UK Election

Postby toucana on June 10th, 2017, 8:20 pm 

Donald Trump called Theresa May to congratulate her on her return to Downing Street after shock losses in the general election saw the Conservatives fail to form a majority Government.

The US President told the Prime Minister he looked forward to continued “close cooperation” with the UK.

It came as the Tories set in motion plans to form a minority administration backed by the Democratic Unionist Party, which strongly opposes same-sex marriage and abortion.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-election-donald-trump-theresa-may-congratulate-downing-street-conservatives-no-majority-minority-a7783231.html

#BeyondParody #Oblivious
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Re: UK Election

Postby zetreque on June 10th, 2017, 11:56 pm 

I found this article helpful but still confusing about what the results mean.

Dummies guide to the UK general election
http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/wher ... nt-2084808
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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 11th, 2017, 12:39 am 

Last bit of that article isn't strictly accurate. The Queen can disapprove the new parliament, she just won't. The monarchy never does.
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Re: UK Election

Postby BadgerJelly on June 11th, 2017, 2:53 am 

Also, regardless of what the DUP want. They won't get to alter human rights. Not even the Tories would allow this, and if they did they'd be slated for even attempting to back those proposals.

They are only concerned with staying in power atm because they think they are the best ones to get a good deal with EU.

"Reportedly" 72% of 18-24 yr olds voted! Nice :)

I think in 2015 it was around 42%. That is a win in and of itself! :D
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Re: UK Election

Postby toucana on June 11th, 2017, 9:17 am 

A new opinion poll now puts Labour six points ahead of the Conservatives.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-lead-theresa-may-conservatives-tories-survation-poll-general-election-a7784171.html

The poll carried out by Survation for the Mail On Sunday newspaper puts Labour at 45% and Conservatives at 39%.

Just about the last thing the Tories would want now is another General election in the immediate future, but it's the one thing that is almost certain to happen because the wheels seem to be falling off the proposed parliamentary pact with the Irish DUP.
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Re: UK Election

Postby Braininvat on June 11th, 2017, 9:23 am 

Lomax » June 10th, 2017, 9:39 pm wrote:Last bit of that article isn't strictly accurate. The Queen can disapprove the new parliament, she just won't. The monarchy never does.


Except in that play, "Charles III," where the new king dissolves Parliament. I saw the tv version with the late Tim Pigot-Smith. Wonder how the PoW liked it.
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Re: UK Election

Postby toucana on June 11th, 2017, 9:53 am 

A handy guide to seven moments when the Irish DUP have excelled themselves at being complete lunatics:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/who-are-the-dup_uk_593cfbd9e4b0c5a35ca03d84?utm_hp_ref=uk

Highlights include:
- Trying to ban the sale of beer, at a Beer Festival.
- Demanding air-strikes on the Irish Republic.
- Demanding new regulations on the sale of Ouija boards.
- Blaming hurricane Katrina on gay people.
- Describing breast-feedng as 'exhibitionism'.

This is in addition to being homophobic Christian fundamentalist creationists, climate change deniers and racist bigots (see #4 in article if in doubt).

With allies like this in parliament, the Tories hardly need any more enemies.
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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 11th, 2017, 10:46 am 

toucana » June 11th, 2017, 2:17 pm wrote:The poll carried out by Survation for the Mail On Sunday newspaper puts Labour at 45% and Conservatives at 39%.

For the Mail on Sunday! Just picturing their faces.
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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 11th, 2017, 10:51 am 

toucana » June 11th, 2017, 2:17 pm wrote:A new opinion poll now puts Labour six points ahead of the Conservatives.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-lead-theresa-may-conservatives-tories-survation-poll-general-election-a7784171.html

The poll carried out by Survation for the Mail On Sunday newspaper puts Labour at 45% and Conservatives at 39%.

Just about the last thing the Tories would want now is another General election in the immediate future, but it's the one thing that is almost certain to happen because the wheels seem to be falling off the proposed parliamentary pact with the Irish DUP.

I'm a little more pessimistic. I think it's exactly the fear of the alternative that will push the Conservatives to give the DUP what they want. And the EU negotiations begin soon - I don't think the British public will want to change leaders midstream. I've actually heard Conservative voters repeat the "strong and stable" mantra to me, even since the implosive election. I hope to be proven wrong.
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Re: UK Election

Postby zetreque on June 11th, 2017, 1:01 pm 

Do you thing this result is in part because of what happened in the US? Like did more young people get fired up to vote?
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Re: UK Election

Postby curiosity on June 11th, 2017, 6:07 pm 

It's a sorry state of affairs, when a satirist has a better understanding of the political situation and mood of the people, than either the media or politicians themselves have.



Socialism Strikes Back!
http://www.youtube.com
Pie's analysis of the election results.

Do you thing this result is in part because of what happened in the US? Like did more young people get fired up to vote?


Not necessarily because of what happened in the US, but I have certainly noticed the trend of younger people here in the UK taking more interest in politics
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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 11th, 2017, 8:16 pm 

I think the domino effect of Trumperialism has had an effect. Several European countries have shifted to hard-right governments too, and I think a lot of those on the left here are anxious that the UK will continue to increasingly adopt those ideals.

But a rightward drift has been noticeable in the UK for a long time. We never really had a mainstream answer to Thatcherism; and the BNP and UKIP have both experienced temporary surges in success.
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Re: UK Election

Postby toucana on June 12th, 2017, 3:56 am 

DUP_1973.jpg

The text of this Northern Ireland DUP poster from June 1975 when the UK held its first referendum on whether to stay within the EEC suggests that the DUP position on Brexit may be a little more hard-core than many Conservatives imagine.
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Re: UK Election

Postby jocular on June 12th, 2017, 5:31 am 

toucana » June 12th, 2017, 3:56 am wrote:
DUP_1973.jpg

The text of this Northern Ireland DUP poster from June 1975 when the UK held its first referendum on whether to stay within the EEC suggests that the DUP position on Brexit may be a little more hard-core than many Conservatives imagine.


It is hard to argue with that -or fail to see the humour in that poster.

But we have to cut the DUP some slack. They have had to live through the IRA campaign which was far more obscene than their ridiculous views.

I don't know if they have a "sensible wing" of the party . Obviously the out and out nutters attract more covfefe than their other supporters (who I hope exist)
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Re: UK Election

Postby BadgerJelly on June 12th, 2017, 12:20 pm 

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Re: UK Election

Postby curiosity on June 12th, 2017, 12:30 pm 

I don't know if they have a "sensible wing" of the party . Obviously the out and out nutters attract more covfefe than their other supporters (who I hope exist)


The poster "is" fairly representative of the views of the "sensible side of the DUP." The former extreme elements of the party were the Ulster Freedom Fighters and the Ulster Volunteer force, I completed two tours of peace-keeping duty in Northern Ireland (during the troubles,as they were known.) and found the Protestant/Unionist terrorists, were just as murderous and evil as the Catholic/Republican terrorists.
After the unfounded aspersions cast by the Tory media about Corbyns associations with terrorists, the Conservatives need to put their own house in order, by giving the DUP an extremely wide berth.
The added dimension of Northern Ireland having a Stormont-centered and devolved, power sharing government, (partially independent of the mainland British government.) can also be thrown into turmoil if DUP MPs become part of the incumbent British parliament; which has a pre-agreed policy of non interventionist impartiality,(as far as matters pertaining to Northern Ireland are concerned.) I hope Mays incompetence doesn't lead to her diving head-first into a situation where even angels fear to tread. She obviously didn't understand the mood of the electorate on the mainland, so... understanding the complicated political situation in NI is well beyond her ability.
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Re: UK Election

Postby jocular on June 12th, 2017, 1:14 pm 

curiosity » June 12th, 2017, 12:30 pm wrote:
I don't know if they have a "sensible wing" of the party . Obviously the out and out nutters attract more covfefe than their other supporters (who I hope exist)


The poster "is" fairly representative of the views of the "sensible side of the DUP." The former extreme elements of the party were the Ulster Freedom Fighters and the Ulster Volunteer force, I completed two tours of peace-keeping duty in Northern Ireland (during the troubles,as they were known.) and found the Protestant/Unionist terrorists, were just as murderous and evil as the Catholic/Republican terrorists.
After the unfounded aspersions cast by the Tory media about Corbyns associations with terrorists, the Conservatives need to put their own house in order, by giving the DUP an extremely wide berth.
The added dimension of Northern Ireland having a Stormont-centered and devolved, power sharing government, (partially independent of the mainland British government.) can also be thrown into turmoil if DUP MPs become part of the incumbent British parliament; which has a pre-agreed policy of non interventionist impartiality,(as far as matters pertaining to Northern Ireland are concerned.) I hope Mays incompetence doesn't lead to her diving head-first into a situation where even angels fear to tread. She obviously didn't understand the mood of the electorate on the mainland, so... understanding the complicated political situation in NI is well beyond her ability.



I take your point about the delicate situation of the present arrangement in NI and the folly of getting politically involved without due diligence but is there an argument that attitudes among the public up there have "normalized" and that to effectively ostracize the DUP from involvement in the British political system would be wrong in itself? (setting aside the practical wisdom /folly aspect)

Would such a decision breed resentment against Westminster among a wide section of the NI population at large.

I don't have much first hand experience of the Unionist population of NI but perhaps your experience goes back a good while too and was set in some extremely unpleasant and soul destroying circumstances.

Much of the UK as a whole will be very annoyed if the Conservatives give the DUP the wide berth you suggest and so are the Conservatives stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one ? (that is if they are struggling with their conscience at all,of course)

If the Tories do not accept the DUP's "offer" then Labour's options may not be much more appealing .Is Labour even a united Party in reality?
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Re: UK Election

Postby toucana on June 14th, 2017, 7:58 am 

A wickedly funny parody of the late Rev. ian Paisley (founder of the DUP and FPCU) by comedian Harry Enfield. A possible foretaste of what the experience of working out a pact with the DUP might entail for Theresa May.

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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 14th, 2017, 8:52 am 

jocular » June 12th, 2017, 6:14 pm wrote:If the Tories do not accept the DUP's "offer" then Labour's options may not be much more appealing .Is Labour even a united Party in reality?

It seems to be more united since it gained since in the election - many of its more right-leaning members (or "Blairites") are admitting they were at least strategically wrong.

The full name of the Conservative Party is the "Conservative and Unionist Party", so people shouldn't be quite so shocked it's willing to ally with the Democratic Unionist Party. There are early signs that the pact would not allow the DUP to manipulate politics through Westminster - for example, a court has already ruled that Northern Irish women cannot use the NHS in the rest of the UK for the purpose of getting an abortion (which is illegal in Northern Ireland). The executive and legislative branches may not honour the separation as much as the judiciary though.
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Re: UK Election

Postby jocular on June 14th, 2017, 10:00 am 

Lomax » June 14th, 2017, 8:52 am wrote:
jocular » June 12th, 2017, 6:14 pm wrote:If the Tories do not accept the DUP's "offer" then Labour's options may not be much more appealing .Is Labour even a united Party in reality?

It seems to be more united since it gained since in the election - many of its more right-leaning members (or "Blairites") are admitting they were at least strategically wrong.


United enough to step up and form a government if the Tories can't?

I don't know (but cannot say ) whether the description of "Blairite" or "right wing" would apply to any members who disagree strongly with the Corbyn faction .(is it is "faction" when it has gathered so many votes from the public? Were the public voting for Corbyn supporting candidates or Corbyn opposing candidates in the various constituencies ,I wonder?)
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Re: UK Election

Postby curiosity on June 14th, 2017, 12:00 pm 

https://youtu.be/wxpYW_w5pgo


The funniest thing about that clip, Is that it is an accurate depiction of the way Loyalists and republicans in NI actually behave.
In truth, the childishness of both parties has continued until the present.
In order to halt the prolonged period of hostilities which were known as the troubles, the then British Government told Sinn fein that if they stopped the murder and violence, and conducted their business in a legitimate and civilised manner, (by using the ballot box instead of bullets) an agreement on the future way NI is governed would be possible.
I must admit to being extremely surprised that this actually came about and that Adams and Paisley really did talk to one another. I am also pleased that the simmering sectarian hatred has not yet re-ignited, thereby giving some hope of a lasting peace in the province.
I'm going to refrain from any further comment until I know what the Sinn fein MPs "really" intend to do. because although as a rule, they don't participate in mainland UK politics; "they can if they so wish."
Hmm... complications on top of complications, tread carefully Theresa May, I'm not sure you understand the possible ramifications of opening Pandoras box.


If the Tories do not accept the DUP's "offer" then Labour's options may not be much more appealing .Is Labour even a united Party in reality?


On the big stuff such as being anti-austerity and being in favour of creating a system that will put the need of the many before the greed of the few... Then "yes" The Labour party is united. (There is no need to sweat the small stuff, it can be sorted out democratically as things progress) The Tories will no doubt continue to insinuate that the labour party is divided, in order to deflect attention away from their own incompetence and inadequacy. The Mess our country is now in, is totally a result of failed politics by the conservatives, They really need to own the situation, admit to their incompetence and go... (They might try to, but will struggle to blame everything on the Russians.)
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Re: UK Election

Postby Lomax on June 14th, 2017, 1:44 pm 

I don't think internal unity is the problem for Labour. The problem is that in order to hold a parliamentary majority their coalition would have to include the SNP, the Liberal Democrats (who stated during the count they would not consider any coalition), Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein. If a Tory-DUP pact entails strategic problems to do with separatism then imagine that alternative.

So the (unlikely, I think) failure of the Con-DUP coalition would be more likely to mean a hung parliament and another general election. While Corbyn continues now leads some of the polls, May is still the PM and she could go ahead and start EU negotiations without her majority, knowing that the easily-scared British public will not want the "instability" of changing "leader" halfway through.
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Re: UK Election

Postby jocular on June 14th, 2017, 3:18 pm 

To my mind May's credibility looks shot and Paxman's blowhard jibe felt rather true.

Might it be that May's "trust nurse" selling point will turn into a liability ,especially if she is forced by the Parliamentary arithmetic to think on her feet and cannot adapt to the new situation convincingly?

Is she a lame duck ? But will the Tory support in the country hold up even if her leadership turns into more of a "passengership" ?

Is everything now too obscure to guess?
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