Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

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Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby BadgerJelly on June 19th, 2017, 10:04 am 

Finsbury Park mosque attack:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/finsbury-park-mosque-attack-imam-protected-van-driver-from-angry-public-after-crash/ar-BBCRBM9?ocid=spartanntp

Speaking on Monday morning, Metropolitan Police deputy assistant commissioner Neil Basu said the incident was being treated as a "terrorist attack'' and thanked members of the public for restraining the suspect.

He said that a man who died in the Finsbury Park incident was already receiving first aid from members of the public at the time and it is not yet known if his death was caused by the attack.
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby toucana on June 19th, 2017, 4:53 pm 

Rowling_Jun2017.jpg
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby wolfhnd on June 19th, 2017, 8:36 pm 

If you tell people that some forms of terrorism are a normal part of living in a large city some people may take that as a license for vigilante action.

The irony is that the selective suppression of free speech in the form of hate speech regulation may actually make incidents like this more likely. At the very least calling everyone who oppose the bronze age misogyny, Jew hatred, hegemonic theocracy, and superstitions of an Abrahamic religion a Islamophobe is not helpful.

This is not 1930 and there are very few fascist to "bash" but if the insane biases inherent in multiculturalism continue there will be a lot more.
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby toucana on June 19th, 2017, 8:51 pm 

This is not 1930 and there are very few fascist to "bash" but if the insane biases inherent in multiculturalism continue there will be a lot more.


And which "insane biases" would those be ?
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby BadgerJelly on June 21st, 2017, 5:05 am 

I am guessing Wolf is saying that free speech comes with a price.

I can agree that if people come into a country with a foreign ideology and preach hatred and intolerance that they should be deported. The other truth is that a lot of these nutters on the side of Islam are being ejected from mosques and reported to the police.

There is because of this a problem of division, which already existed in the UK anyway. Some people are racist and that is the way it is. Such incidents enflame racism, and at the same time cause a certain restraint from people to not view muslims are "bad", a restrtaint that is taken to the opposite extreme.

It is weird. The whoel UKIP thing brought to light some very concerning questions in British society. If the mahority are not racist then they need to come out as such.

Also the recent Islam march was something the muslim community should perhaps have postponed in my view because it was obviously going to be shown in the media as a PRO-TERRORIST march, when it was, from my view, an anti-Zionist march (something I agree with.)

I certainly think the government in the UK has to accept responsibility for its historic participation in the establishment of Israel. It was not within the rights of the British government to apologise for a European travesty against the Jewish people and give them someone elses land as "compensation". If Europe wished to do such a thing they should've given them European lands. That said, the situation cnnot be reversed now and we're left with an historical influence in a very messy situation!

I don't have the answers to this problem, I wish someone did. I just hope the middle east is stable in the near future. Whether we liemk it or not the western world (especially France, the UK and the US) are invested in the whole mess. The best it seems we can hope for is that Palestine is recognized internationally and its people are driven toward political solutions rather than toward ongoing hatred and war. We can hope the situations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Syria settle enough so western forces can pull out with convinction of never having to return and "interfere"/"offer assistance" again.

We can hope and we can talk and try to understand. Anything else that stems from discussion will be more, not less, appropriate.

Let us not forget 100's of people burned to death in a building because of some greeding money grabbing individuals. They need to be brought to face criminal charges. Mad terrorists are quite mad. Madness is not an excuse just a truth. I cannot call deluded people who believe in heavenly rewards simply evil, they are evil and mad, but I can call people who risk the lives of innocent poor people evil when they do without some delusion of a godly reward or delusion of misplaced vengence.

In all the horrific events we see one typical thing shine through with gives me great heart. People come together and help each other. We most definitely should praise resolve in humanity as well as condemn deluded stupidity. One without regard for the other is no good to anyone.

My view is that the mad delusions of people commiting horrific acts stems from the immoral rationality of evil people.

What is more of a problem is asking where and when the western powers should step in and act as "parents"? Do we have the right, the need or the resolve to do so? Is terrorism in our countries a price to pay for helping other nations? If we can "help" make peace in the world then at what cost?

Once we put ourselves in the shoes of the politicians, knowing that whatever choice we make there will be uproar from some people, we may be able to help them achieve what we essentially want to. That is a fair and just society.

If I was in the UK now I would get involved in politics and run for parliament. My position would be "I am sometimes a c**t, but who isn't. I am not here for a personality contest or for the borough. I am here to attempt to do the right thing and if people vote for me I will harass every one of my voters about every question and impose their will."

What would your campaign slogan be? :D
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby Lomax on June 21st, 2017, 10:41 am 

This march? What did it have to do with Israel?
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby BadgerJelly on June 21st, 2017, 11:48 am 

Lomax » June 21st, 2017, 10:41 pm wrote:This march? What did it have to do with Israel?


I was referring to march in London.
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Re: Attack on people leaving Mosque in UK

Postby BadgerJelly on June 21st, 2017, 1:37 pm 

Just to add the mess is upsetting.

There are so many spin-offs from the whole, nationalist, religious and general ideological positions surrounding this that I feel pretty dumb saying I am against this or for this.

I am for freedom and hope that freedom for all will exist one-day outside of some imposed view of how the world should be. Sadly if I tried to impose this view I'd be met with resistance and create yet another ideological cacophony of human stupidity!

I can just try and be as tolerant as I can to people and educate myself. The tough thing is knowing where to stop with tolerance, or rather where to focus it rather than waste it. I do believe that as long as enough people are capable of being rational on Earth then there is still hope.

It is hard for one person to stop crying about a bad thing inflicted upon themselves by others. It is much harder if the entire community is fanned this sorrow and actively refusing you the space to move on.

Protect children first from the many out there who want to tell them how to think and what to believe. Once the children have grown up and seen the world unclouded by reinforced views of others ask them what the hell we should do because only from there position can we really understand our hypocrisy.

note: the above is impossible because to live in society means to be under its influence. strange quandary!
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