Trump may resign

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Trump may resign

Postby Athena on August 22nd, 2017, 9:58 am 

This is in the news and at first I thought it credible, but the more I watch Tony Schwartz, the more I think he is a game player out to feather his own nest by destroying Trump. However, because he did write a book with Trump he has credibility and can do serious damage to Trump's image. The way Trump is handling things is building enemies. Surely he has fired too many people, who are now capable of uniting against him and forcing him out of office, either by a forced resignation or impeachment. His new enemies have much more power to retaliate than the folks on his TV show.

Schwartz has said Trump would rather resign than go through the process of impeachment. Trump's anti-establishment position would lead to him declaring victory, and his followers would see the establishment as the enemy Trump has always said it is. What might this do to our country? Might this administration tear our country apart, almost to the degree of the Civil War?


http://time.com/4906262/art-of-the-deal ... mp-resign/

before the end of the year.
"The snowball is beginning to gather momentum as it comes down the mountain," Tony Schwartz told Anderson Cooper on CNN Thursday. "It reminds me a lot of Watergate and the last days of Nixon... He's put himself in an isolated, no-win position. The level of his destructiveness is staggering."
His television appearance echoed tweets he had published the day before saying Trump would resign office — and soon.
"The circle is closing at blinding speed," Tony Schwartz, who CNN reports spent more than a year with Trump writing his 1987 memoir, tweeted August 16. "Trump is going to resign and declare victory before Mueller and congress leave him no choice."


Never in my life time have political conflicts been this intense and the Washington Post is asking it other's should resign to establish where they stand on the racist issues. This could be a boom shell to many who depend on being voted into office, because their futures could do down with Trump.

Mr. Trump’s comments Tuesday gave comfort to racists and hatemongers. After white supremacists chanted anti-Semitic slogans and brandished Nazi salutes in a rally that culminated in the murder of Heather Heyer, 32, and the wounding of 19 others, Mr. Trump found “blame on both sides” and “very fine people, on both sides.” Members of Mr. Trump’s party, from Virginia gubernatorial nominee Ed Gillespie up to House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (Wis.), ought to have no difficulty saying that a person who holds such views is not fit to be the nation’s leader.

But what about administration insiders? So far, a handful of business and union leaders have resigned from White House advisory councils, prompting Mr. Trump on Wednesday to announce that he was abolishing two groups. (Jeffrey P. Bezos, the founder and chief executive of Amazon.com and owner of The Post, has visited the White House as a member of a separate technology advisory council.) We admired Kenneth C. Frazier, the CEO of drugmaker Merck, when he became the first to quit after Mr. Trump found fault on “many sides” of the Charlottesville events. Mr. Frazier acted on principle, and Mr. Trump promptly lashed out at him on Twitter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 2d9bf60dcb


To me this mess looks more serious than Watergate or Clinton's battle with impeachment because this has the potential of flaming a serious national divide. What do you think?
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Re: Trump may resign

Postby Braininvat on August 22nd, 2017, 10:18 am 

Good questions.

First, I think Tony Schwartz has had a lot of guilt (some publicly expressed last year) about writing a Trump book that was unduly flattering and concealed some of Trump's personality flaws. So now I think he is trying to seek atonement. But, whatever his motivation comes from, we can certainly consider his assertion (that Trump would prefer resignation over impeachment) on its merits. And, given what I have seen of Trump's narcissism, his deep neediness, his eternal quest for adulation and having the "greatest" administration in recorded history, yeah, I think he would bail out before things go south on him in the WH.

Some of the details that have emerged of Mueller's investigation hint that things will not go well for him, as regards impeachment.

Also, his rather revelatory remarks (revelatory of his true character) about the events in Charlottesville (before his handlers could get him to walk some of them back) are going to be really hard for many people, on both sides of the aisle, to forget. At some point, Trump may realize he is never going to unring the white nationist bell that he rang so wildly, and that the country is never going to accept his equivocations in large enough numbers for him to feel secure in office.
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Re: Trump may resign

Postby jocular on August 22nd, 2017, 1:42 pm 

So should people be looking for ways to prevent Trump resigning?

What practical benefits would his resignation confer on his own good person (aside from stroking his ego)?

Life would seem to be ,on the face of it to be easier for him out of office but perhaps he will lose some protection as a result of returning to civilian life.

Is it better to keep him in office until such time as it becomes obvious that his promises to bring jobs back to America were simply hollow words that he used to gain a few extra votes.

When those victims learn to feel anger for his lies will that be the opportune time to impeach (if there is justification) or persuade him to resign if it seems to coincide with his personal self interest?
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Re: Trump may resign

Postby Athena on August 23rd, 2017, 12:42 pm 

jocular » August 22nd, 2017, 11:42 am wrote:So should people be looking for ways to prevent Trump resigning?

What practical benefits would his resignation confer on his own good person (aside from stroking his ego)?

Life would seem to be ,on the face of it to be easier for him out of office but perhaps he will lose some protection as a result of returning to civilian life.

Is it better to keep him in office until such time as it becomes obvious that his promises to bring jobs back to America were simply hollow words that he used to gain a few extra votes.

When those victims learn to feel anger for his lies will that be the opportune time to impeach (if there is justification) or persuade him to resign if it seems to coincide with his personal self interest?



I think many people are very anxious about how he is managing North Korea and one man has already published a book stating we are a path to war with North Korea. I have not read the book, but watched him in an interview on TV, and some people around me are afraid Trump is putting us in a position that we can not get out off, forcing us to go to war. For this reason, some people are thinking we can not get him out of office fast enough.

About the job situation, I think this is directly related to how much oil we are pumping and I wish people were more interested in this. Fracking has meant an end to importing oil and the possibility of exporting oil, and this means less national debt and higher revenues. As in the 1970's, the OPEC oil embargo meant an economic recession, fracking means an increase in jobs and inflation. Inflation is good for lowering the national debt because it declines the value of the dollar and therefore the declines the past national debt. And our independence of foreign oil, should mean we can get out of the mid east because we don't need to protect that supply of oil, and that should mean decreasing the military budget and increasing domestic spending. Of course, because oil is finite, our good times are also limited but this another subject. Unless we are talking about why jobs are increasing and our economy is looking better, and why Trumps decision to increase military and slash domestic budgets is not a good call.

I am afraid voters in general are poorly informed and that our politics have a lot to do with that. Carter was right when said we need to conserve, and Reagan was lying to us when he said it was not necessary conserve, and then proceeded to slash domestic budgets when a recession had increased the need for government assistance, and pour money into military spending, including granting arms to the likes of Saddam and Laden. I am taking up a collection for a lobotomy. I really do not want to think about this stuff and care. It would be great to have a Texas Republican's point of view and to think everything is fine as long as a Republican is in control, instead of knowing it was Texan oil money that got Eisenhower, Reagon, and Bush elected and set policy for the US.

I would also like to question Trump's reasoning for undoing all the peace progress Obama made with Cuba, when our markets are now flooded with goods from Vietnam a communist nation where many of our young men and women died? What are the political reasons for free trade agreements with Vietnam and closing out Cuba? I want to acknowledge I believe what Trump and Bush have done to Cuba is unjust, and I think I would identify my feeling about this as anger. Anyone want to change my reasoning on this?
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Re: Trump may resign

Postby Braininvat on August 23rd, 2017, 1:09 pm 

I don't have time to fully grapple with all that, but I will note some cognitive dissonance when I read these two parts of your last post, Athena (bolding mine):

I think many people are very anxious about how he is managing North Korea and one man has already published a book stating we are a path to war with North Korea. I have not read the book, but watched him in an interview on TV, and some people around me are afraid Trump is putting us in a position that we can not get out off, forcing us to go to war.


and....

I am afraid voters in general are poorly informed and that our politics have a lot to do with that....


I just have to point out that someone who saw someone on tv, but didn't read their book, and noticed people in the area are afraid...does not strike me as the well-informed voter that they would like to see be predominant in the population. Perhaps if you read the book, then presented us with a cogent and evidence-based argument that we are on the path to war with NK, based on said book, then we would have a better basis to assess the fears of people around you.

Later, you say something that I think does speak eloquently to the informed voter shortage:

I am taking up a collection for a lobotomy. I really do not want to think about this stuff and care.


I know you are probably joking about the lobotomy. But the fatigue you express is, IMO, very much part of why so many voters are uninformed. There are too many issues to follow, too much complexity, too many social problems that each would demand a person devote 8 hours a day to understanding and forming a plan for community political action. That's one reason I always urge SPCF members to select a single specific issue whenever they post. Some famous writer once commented "Goethe was the last person who knew everything." Meaning that, after the 1700's, the world just got too big and complicated for any person to really take it all in.
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Re: Trump may resign

Postby Athena on August 23rd, 2017, 1:17 pm 

Braininvat » August 22nd, 2017, 8:18 am wrote:Good questions.

First, I think Tony Schwartz has had a lot of guilt (some publicly expressed last year) about writing a Trump book that was unduly flattering and concealed some of Trump's personality flaws. So now I think he is trying to seek atonement. But, whatever his motivation comes from, we can certainly consider his assertion (that Trump would prefer resignation over impeachment) on its merits. And, given what I have seen of Trump's narcissism, his deep neediness, his eternal quest for adulation and having the "greatest" administration in recorded history, yeah, I think he would bail out before things go south on him in the WH.

Some of the details that have emerged of Mueller's investigation hint that things will not go well for him, as regards impeachment.

Also, his rather revelatory remarks (revelatory of his true character) about the events in Charlottesville (before his handlers could get him to walk some of them back) are going to be really hard for many people, on both sides of the aisle, to forget. At some point, Trump may realize he is never going to unring the white nationist bell that he rang so wildly, and that the country is never going to accept his equivocations in large enough numbers for him to feel secure in office.


I apologize for the rough start of this thread.

It appears you are more familiar with Tony Schwartz than I am. To be honest, politics cause me a lot of pain, and I think the media has inflamed too much, so I have been avoiding awareness of what is happening, but an international discussion group I am a member of, motivated me to be better informed of today's politics. I am such a coward, I want to go back to when we did not discuss religion or politics, but the idea of Trump of Kim Jong-un setting off a nuclear war, may not be something to ignore, and now since I started looking into things, our own resolved issues between the north and south, union and confederates, racist and non-racist, is alarming to me. The Blacks have never been in denial, but I sure was. I have been steeped in an understanding of democratic values and wanting to believe most people stood for these values, and that is blowing up in my face! How Trump is playing the political game might be something that should get our attention?

Here is a link I put in the deleted effort to start this thread, and would like to know what people think of what Schwarzenegger said?

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Re: Trump may resign

Postby Athena on August 23rd, 2017, 2:02 pm 

Braininvat » August 23rd, 2017, 11:09 am wrote:I don't have time to fully grapple with all that, but I will note some cognitive dissonance when I read these two parts of your last post, Athena (bolding mine):

I think many people are very anxious about how he is managing North Korea and one man has already published a book stating we are a path to war with North Korea. I have not read the book, but watched him in an interview on TV, and some people around me are afraid Trump is putting us in a position that we can not get out off, forcing us to go to war.


and....

I am afraid voters in general are poorly informed and that our politics have a lot to do with that....


I just have to point out that someone who saw someone on tv, but didn't read their book, and noticed people in the area are afraid...does not strike me as the well-informed voter that they would like to see be predominant in the population. Perhaps if you read the book, then presented us with a cogent and evidence-based argument that we are on the path to war with NK, based on said book, then we would have a better basis to assess the fears of people around you.

Later, you say something that I think does speak eloquently to the informed voter shortage:

I am taking up a collection for a lobotomy. I really do not want to think about this stuff and care.


I know you are probably joking about the lobotomy. But the fatigue you express is, IMO, very much part of why so many voters are uninformed. There are too many issues to follow, too much complexity, too many social problems that each would demand a person devote 8 hours a day to understanding and forming a plan for community political action. That's one reason I always urge SPCF members to select a single specific issue whenever they post. Some famous writer once commented "Goethe was the last person who knew everything." Meaning that, after the 1700's, the world just got too big and complicated for any person to really take it all in.



I am not well informed in all areas, and most certainly identify with feeling overwhelmed with all the issues and the pro and con arguments, and for a short time voted a straight Democratic ticket without thinking through decisions. Something I am not proud of. But my concern about the oil and banking issue does not come from political propaganda. It comes from the books of a geologist, and that is something people here might appreciate? My argument is the media has failed miserably to keep us well informed. We have been played and kept in the dark.

I would not be aware of this, if I didn't microfilm old newspapers for the local university, and come across a 1920's warning that, "Given our known oil supply and rate of consumption, we are headed for economic disaster and possibly war." The economy of all industrial nations depends on oil (energy) and shortly after the warning of economic disaster and war, all industrial economies crashed and we all ended up in war. When the recession caused by the OPEC embargo happened, I tried to raise awareness of the oil and economic relationship, and everyone, including the media, insisted we have all the oil we need. To me this was like sitting in a burning house and denying there was a fire. Not until the geologist got an award for his second book, would the local newspaper pay attention to what he had to say about resources and the economy. That is when I realized, journalists have very limited educations. They do not take classes in economics and even if they did, the economists are not working with the information a geologist. Laugh, talk about feeling overwhelmed with information and knowing how much I do not know, that is exactly how I feel!

Can we fall back on why some people have no faith in science and stay on the path of self-destruction? As self-governing people, we need to know too much, and it would be wonderful if we had a god chosen king who took care of us, and life was good without us having to understand science and the economy or politics and what making an issue out of abortion has to do with winning votes. Unfortunately, no human being can know enough, not even one chosen by a god, and when we talk politics we are not talking about our resources and what they have they have to do with our economy and national defense policy. Walter Youngquist's book "Mineral Resources and the Destiny of Nations" is almost like a bible to me.

I think you might see speaking of one thing does not help us understand our economy and political situation as we must do to make informed decisions because everything is interrelated? But when we begin with a book like Walter Youngquist's book "Mineral Resources and the Destiny of Nations" we begin to see an order that makes sense of everything else and we stop being lead like sheep down the path of self-destruction.

I also want to say, I think a better education in math and science can lead to a strong and more sane democracy.
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