self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Anyone can post and discuss breaking news that interest them (please respect posting guidelines and be sure to reference properly).
Forum rules
Please be sure to check our forum's Rules & Guidelines

self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby zetreque on November 9th, 2017, 12:03 am 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/xero-repor ... m-the-nzx/

I am 100% against self-driving cars. I'm about 100x more afraid of them than legalized guns. This whole self-driving car movement is putting funding in the WRONG area of society. Then again, no one makes money by actually putting effort into public transit, more ethical vehicles, or other areas of society that desperately need help in the lower middle class.

The crash follows the US House passing the Self Drive Act in September, which if passed by the Senate would exempt car manufacturers from various federal and state regulations, allowing for the eventual deployment of up to 100,000 test vehicles a year.


I voted against it in my state last legislative session, but it passed anyway. Thanks to Tesla lobbying. Not the people's vote.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3171
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (6)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Lomax on November 9th, 2017, 12:11 am 

User avatar
Lomax
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3502
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Location: Nuneaton, UK


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby zetreque on November 9th, 2017, 12:53 am 

Driverless vehicle potential for terrorism. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/auto ... -1.3617663

Will add this to my growing list of all the reasons we should not pursue driverless cars at this time.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3171
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (6)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby wolfhnd on November 9th, 2017, 1:21 am 

If you are against them in general would you consider exemptions for the handicapped and elderly?
User avatar
wolfhnd
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby zetreque on November 9th, 2017, 1:24 am 

wolfhnd » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:21 pm wrote:If you are against them in general would you consider exemptions for the handicapped and elderly?


No. After much consideration about if I ever become handicap over the years, I'm against a lot of handicap regulations as it is.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3171
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (6)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby BioWizard on November 9th, 2017, 8:58 am 

Geez zet, you’re a grumpier technophobe than a grumpy technophobic grandpa :)
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12691
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby BioWizard on November 9th, 2017, 9:01 am 

Last I heard was that the human driver was at fault for the crash with the self driving bus, which agrees with the expected odds.

Most humans are horrible drivers, even before we became obsessed with smartphones. I’d feel a lot safer with reliable AI orchestrating driving than being surrounded by a stampede of perpetually distracted humans.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12691
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby SciameriKen on November 9th, 2017, 10:46 am 

I'm having difficulty finding details out about the accident. What i can gather is just that the semi-truck backed into the AI bus -- If the AI bus backed right up to the Semi - that driver may not have even been able to see the AI bus -- additionally a human driver may have been able to gauge the Truck driver's intent and back the car up to give room for the truck - AI may not have had an algorithm for this.

Incidentally, traffic deaths have spiked:
Fatalities rose 6 percent in 2016, reaching an estimated 40,200 deaths compared to 37,757 deaths the previous year, according to the National Safety Council. The group gets its data from states. The last time there were more than 40,000 fatalities in a single year was in 2007, just before the economy tanked.


From an article on ZDnet (http://www.zdnet.com/article/self-drivi ... las-vegas/) - Auto manufacturers are all getting involved including GM, Volvo, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, and Ford to name a few. Unbeknownst to me, the House passed legislation ("Self Drive Act") that would allow 100,000 self driving cars to be tested.

Clearly whether we want it or not this is the future.
User avatar
SciameriKen
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1266
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Braininvat on November 9th, 2017, 10:50 am 

Each tech step forward expands access but also expands our dependence on it. I woud feel better about automated cars if they had an AI that was actually conscious - more like a taxi service with very alert drivers. A conscious entity can notice that it's starting to feel "off," starting to degrade in some way, and promptly pull over and stop. Something without consciousness could have its nav system go buggy and steer you off an embankment or into a river.

Zet, Bio is right: you're now officially a curmudgeon. :-)
User avatar
Braininvat
Resident Member
 
Posts: 5833
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby zetreque on November 9th, 2017, 11:13 am 

As sciameriken said, we don't know the details and it could have been avoided. The cars take away from working class people jobs and give them to tech people. A major problem as my cousin has explained to me trying to get a job. They are another toy for affluence. When you are rich enough to have a driverless car then you have more time to make more money separating yourself even further from the average working class person. Would you trust them on the road when a snow, or rain storm comes up? What about a windy mountain road? Driver-less cars must be programed with ethics. Ethics is a highly debated field, and it is currently impossible to program a car withs ethic of everyone. You can find multiple articles online about this conundrum. Ethical choices when it comes to drive should be in the hands of the human driver.
Driver-less cars focus energy and money on a part of society that should NOT be focused on. There are far better areas of society in transportation to put our resources. Such as low carbon and environmental technologies, or public transportation.
Tesla is lobbying for this tech so the push for it is a bit biased in my opinion and profit motivated.
As the article above points out. Driverless cars open up more opportunity for hackers and terrorism and murders.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3171
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (6)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Serpent on November 9th, 2017, 11:19 am 

Talk about your fake news!!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/driverless-shuttle-bus-1.4205079
What crash? The accident was barely a fender-bender.
If a delivery truck backed into any ordinary parked car and scraped its bumper, would it be reported at all?
Headline, indeed!

Besides, the terrorists who don't want to die use drones; the terrorists who want to see the fear in their victims eyes won't give up the privilege of driving into the crowd themselves; and human drivers get drunk, talk on their phones, get mad, fall asleep and go buggy in various clever human ways all the time.
Figure the odds.

It's not the cars that take jobs away from people; it's corporations. If they can maximize profits by moving a factory to Mexico or China, that's what they do. If they can maximize profit by outsourcing or contracting or splitting a job into part-time shifts or hiring illegals (no union, no benefits, no vacation or sick or maternity leave, no minimum wage, no pension, no lunch breaks, no insurance, no job security) that's what they do. If they can maximize profits by automation - like the bank tellers and now store checkouts - that's what they do. People rant and rail against every innovation, then accept it, then find it convenient or pleasant, then come to depend on it, take it for granted and stop thinking about it altogether.
Technology won't stop progressing, until the economy crashes. Ironically, it will crash when the profits dry up due to mass unemployment. (No, GBI won't solve the problem, because the job-losses are not compensated by massive tax cuts to the rich.)
Serpent
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 24 Dec 2011


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Braininvat on November 9th, 2017, 12:27 pm 

Yes. If we raised corporate taxes to where universally unemployed humans could receive a GBI, then corporations would leave the country and go where the tax system was more favorable. A completely automated society, where machines do all the work, would have to be money-less, and therefore not based on capitalism. GBI would have to be GBS, instead (guaranteed basic services). If you, as a human, could increase your status, it would be by offering some special creative product and then getting favorable publicity for it. Instead of wealth, we would have favorable publicity - a non-monetary prestige system. Maybe you would have little merit stars on your shirt or something like that. And if you got enough merit stars, then maybe the GBS would throw in a supplemental thing that would enlarge your house and add a couple Ming vases on the mantel.
User avatar
Braininvat
Resident Member
 
Posts: 5833
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Serpent on November 9th, 2017, 12:55 pm 

SciameriKen » November 9th, 2017, 9:46 am wrote:I'm having difficulty finding details out about the accident.

The article in my link in my earlier post has a picture.

Braininvat --- Maybe you would have little merit stars on your shirt or something like that. And if you got enough merit stars, then maybe the GBS would throw in a supplemental thing that would enlarge your house and add a couple Ming vases on the mantel.

You needn't complicate things so. Help your neighbour build a patio and he'll help you add an extra bedroom. Who needs Ming vases, when everyone in the community has the leisure to pursue their artistic bent? You won't know what to do all the beautiful things you receive as gifts, for reading to a blind woman down the street or tutoring a math-phobic child, or watering someone's garden while they're in hospital.
Serpent
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 24 Dec 2011


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby mitchellmckain on November 9th, 2017, 1:25 pm 

Self driving vehicles don't kill, people do! LOL!
User avatar
mitchellmckain
Member
 
Posts: 734
Joined: 27 Oct 2016


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby SciameriKen on November 9th, 2017, 2:25 pm 

Serpent » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:55 pm wrote:
SciameriKen » November 9th, 2017, 9:46 am wrote:I'm having difficulty finding details out about the accident.

The article in my link in my earlier post has a picture.


I saw that picture previously, but it didn't make sense - so was the truck trying to back into that alley and the bus wouldn't move to give this guy room to do so, thus creating gridlock?
User avatar
SciameriKen
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1266
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Serpent on November 9th, 2017, 3:09 pm 

SciameriKen » November 9th, 2017, 1:25 pm wrote:I saw that picture previously, but it didn't make sense - so was the truck trying to back into that alley and the bus wouldn't move to give this guy room to do so, thus creating gridlock?

It seems the truck was coming out of the alley and its driver either didn't have a clear line of sight or his attention lapsed. Really nothing much happened. No crash. No injury; no danger; no gridlock. Minor damage. It's entirely un-newsworthy. The picture just shows how much nothing happened.
But most people will look at a headline with "driverless car" and "crash" in it, leap to an erroneous conclusion and solidify their deeply rooted mistrust of machines....
...as if their lives didn't depend on machines of all kinds, every day - even before they get sick or injured.

"The shuttle did what it was supposed to do, in that it's (sic) sensors registered the truck and the shuttle stopped to avoid the accident," the city said in a statement. "Unfortunately the delivery truck did not stop and grazed the front fender of the shuttle. Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has the accident would have been avoided."
Serpent
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 24 Dec 2011


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby wolfhnd on November 9th, 2017, 3:51 pm 

Corporations are coops where investors pool there money. The fact that the concept has been expanded to limit individual liability and certain forms of taxation does not diminish the validity of the concept.
User avatar
wolfhnd
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby wolfhnd on November 9th, 2017, 4:00 pm 

The question of exporting slave labor and pollution is more complex than what can be blamed on "capitalism". It is as much a misdirection as blaming slavery on Europeans. It was the Arab and African tradition of slavery that enabled the Atlantic slave trade much as it is the bad government in places where corporations take advantage of cheap labor and lax environmental laws today.

People seem to forget that after the fall of the Roman empire it was brown people who oppressed Europeans. The popularity of blaming white people and there institutions for everything bad in the world is a historical distortion. Worse it speaks to the racism of low expectations.

The insertion of political ideology into this thread seems unwarranted. It is true that automation poses serious political issues especially as the most common blue collar jobs are in transportation. That said much of technology today amounts to little more than entertainment. The situation can be summed up as the leftists gave deplorables Facebook and the deplorables gave the elitists the necessities for life. I don't expect this to change soon.
User avatar
wolfhnd
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: self driving bus crashes 2 hours after launch

Postby Serpent on November 9th, 2017, 4:44 pm 

wolfhnd » November 9th, 2017, 2:51 pm wrote:Corporations are coops where investors pool there money. The fact that the concept has been expanded to limit individual liability and certain forms of taxation does not diminish the validity of the concept.

Right. So - they don't do whatever is necessary to maximize profit? Then what are they for?
And this is relevant to the misrepresentation of driverless cars, how?

The insertion of political ideology into this thread seems unwarranted.


People seem to forget that after the fall of the Roman empire it was brown people who oppressed Europeans. The popularity of blaming white people and there institutions for everything bad in the world is a historical distortion. Worse it speaks to the racism of low expectations.

While this is warranted - on what grounds?
Serpent
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2578
Joined: 24 Dec 2011



Return to News Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests