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GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 2:18 am
by toucana
Roy_Moore.jpg
Alabama Candidate Roy Moore

Senior GOP leaders have told their candidate Roy Moore to stand aside from the special election in Alabama on 12 December after a fifth woman appeared in public and accused him of having sexually assaulted her when she was 16 years old.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/13/gop-senate-campaign-chair-calls-on-senators-to-expel-moore-if-he-wins-special-election.html

Beverely Young Nelson testified on Monday that Moore had attacked her in his car in 1977 after offering her a lift home when she was working as a waitress, then initimidated her into silence by telling her that he was the district attorney for Etowah County, and that no-one would believe her word as a child against him.

Four other women had previously named Moore as a sexual predator who had harrassed them, one of them called Leigh Corfman having been just 14 years old at the time according to an article first published by the Washington Post.

An even more damning allegation circulated by local Alabama journalists claims that Moore’s predilection for stalking young women was so notorious that he was actually black-listed and banned from visiting a local shopping mall in Gadsden Etowah County some years ago.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html#incart_m-rpt-2

GOP Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell has told Moore to stand aside, and Senator Cory Gardener who is the chairman of the National Senatorial Republican Committee has said that Roy Moore should be expelled from the Senate if he wins the special election on 12 December which was originally called after Jeff Sessions was appointed Attorney General in the Trump administration.

So far, Roy Moore and his supporters have remained defiant calling the original Washington Post story ‘liberal fake news’, and citing the Christian nativity story as a precedent for a relationship between ‘Joseph an adult carpenter and a teenage Mary who became the mother of God’. Some of the more extreme local GOP partisans in Alabama have suggested that they would rather vote for a pedophile than a Democrat.

The practical difficulty facing the GOP leadership is that it is now too late to remove Moore from the Alabama ballot, and they would have to rely on a write-in candidate if they wished to support another contender. One suggestion is that they might turn to Luther Strange who they supported in the primary nomination contest. Alternatively they might allow Roy Moore to be elected, then expel him from Senate and ask the Alabama governor to nominate Jeff Sessions back into his old seat.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 9:58 am
by zetreque
Any chance we might get something similar with the unqualified, young, biased, inexperienced nominee for court judge who appears to be nominated only because he is young and he writes a blog column dissing on Clinton which by their logic means they will have someone, a puppet, on their partisan side filling the life term seat for a very long time.

http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-na- ... story.html

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 11:11 am
by Braininvat
Interesting that McConnell's change of tune (until yesterday, he was in the "if true" camp, and was basically giving Moore the green light given the difficulty of proving events 40 years in the past) seemed to coincide with the release of polling that showed Moore now behind Jones, the democratic challenger. It's okay to be a paedophile in the GOP, so long as you are a paedophile who can WIN. If Trump hadn't already alerted you to this, it's now clearer than ever that the GOP has sold its soul to the Devil.

Moore is a deranged monster. He wants to criminal prosecute gays for....being gay. He says the 9/11 attacks were "divine retribution" on our country. He wants to deport all Muslims. And now this. But it took poor polling numbers to get the leader of the GOP Senate coalition to reject him. Wow. Just wow.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 23rd, 2017, 1:44 am
by toucana
The Steve Colbert show ran an old video clip from an Alabama TV station of of Roy Moore reminiscing about his marriage which discloses that he first saw his future wife Kayla Kisor at a school dance recital in 1976, but he didn't meet her properly until eight years later in 1984, when she was 23 years old. (They married a year later in 1985 when Moore was 38.)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-colbert-believes-trump-is-in-total-denial-over-pedophile-roy-moore

Which prompted Steve Colbert to ask -
She was only 15 when he first saw her at the dance recital - Why was he hanging around teenagers’ dance recitals? Was the mall closed for renovations?”

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 23rd, 2017, 2:30 am
by wolfhnd
So many of these guys have been exposed lately it makes you wonder if the conspiracy nuts are as crazy as people like to think they are.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 23rd, 2017, 11:17 am
by Braininvat
The "Me, too" sisterhood thing is a social movement, not a conspiracy. It's not secret, it's not a sinister plot, it's just real people who were disrespected and abused by other real people who happened to be in positions of power over them. And those people were bastards. I think it's a symptom of the misogyny that is residual in our culture that women pushing back against male molestation and coercion is some kind of "conspiracy." Look into your own abyss, pal.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: November 23rd, 2017, 2:26 pm
by Watson
You have to wonder what is going on in society that these questions are even being discussed in the year 2017. In a right world, moore would have been quietly pushed out of public view and comment, by those close to him, at the first hint of scandal many years ago. With this past history, he is unfit to serve the public interest. The fact he got to where he is, through lies and bullying tactics is a sad reflection on society.
But if the acceptance of the casting couch as a dirty little secret, allowing boys to be boys is just part of life, then no wonder it is ingrained in the moral compass of our business and political leadership. Seems there are enough like-minded people out there freely willing to prop up these ass holes, and condone their behavior.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 9th, 2017, 1:21 pm
by Braininvat
From Michael Gerson's column in the Post, a useful analysis of the problems inherent in sacrificing moral standards for the sake of political expedience:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-are-failing-the-roy-moore-test/2017/12/07/91bdd246-db82-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?utm_term=.b9a5284ac5d5

In this political lifeboat dilemma, Republicans are being asked what principles they are willing to throw overboard in the interest of power. A belief that character matters in politics? Splash. A commitment to religious and ethnic inclusion? Splash. Moral outrage at credible charges of sexual predation against teen girls? Splash.


Those remaining in this lightened boat display a kind of shocking clarity. They value certain political ends — tax cuts, a conservative judiciary — more than ethical considerations. When it comes to confirming judges who oppose Roe v. Wade, the vote of a statesman is no better than the vote of a sexual predator — or, presumably, of a drug dealer or a murderer. This type of calculation admits no limiting principle.


So, in this view, it does not really matter that there is (as Ivanka Trump put it) “no reason to doubt the victims’ accounts” in Moore’s case. It does not matter that Moore’s explanations have been shifting and slippery. It does not matter that Moore has said that homosexual behavior should be illegal, or that he compared resisting gay marriage to resisting the Holocaust, or that he referred to Asians as “yellows,” or that he doesn’t believe former president Barack Obama is a natural born citizen, or that he believes there are communities living under shariah law in Illinois and Indiana.

Those willing to swallow all this — all the ignorance, cruelty, creepiness and malice — have truly shown the strength of their partisan commitment. A purity indistinguishable from mania.

The Moore test has been useful in its own way. It has exposed corrupt leaders. President Trump’s eventual endorsement of Moore was predictable, given his personal interest in discrediting the credible accusations of exploited women. The support of the Republican National Committee revealed a political party with no judgment, no standards and a cloudy future among the young and morally sentient. All Moore’s allies and enablers have marked themselves as unfit for leadership. The untainted — among them Sens. Mike Lee, Bob Corker, Jeff Flake, Cory Gardner, Susan Collins, Thom Tillis, Lindsey O. Graham, John McCain, Steve Daines, Bill Cassidy and Ben Sasse — are far and away the best positioned to play positive roles in a Republican recovery.


The Moore test has exposed corrupt arguments. All those who say “Let the voters of Alabama decide” are applying popular sovereignty to a matter of basic morality. Abraham Lincoln would not be amused. If Republicans have any remaining ties to the great man, they will not count votes when fundamental principles are at stake. We do not let the people decide on the rights of minorities. And the people do not decide on the rules of morality.

And the Moore test has exposed corrupt institutions. The basic argument here — that ethics can be ignored in the process of doing great work in the world — is precisely what brings institutions into disrepute. The Catholic Church covered up sexual predation on the justification that it was otherwise doing great work in the world. Some evangelical Christians are now publicly playing down credible charges of sexual predation for the same reason. And they are doing tremendous damage to the reputation of the Christian church in the process.

Though I probably don’t say it enough, many evangelicals are doing great work in the world — feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless and welcoming strangers. But a self-selected, highly visible group of politicized evangelicals is engaged in a remarkable project. Once they were known for harsh moralism — for being eager tutors in our national sins. Now they argue that character doesn’t count and that the ends justify the means. The moral majority has somehow lost its taste for decency.

The hope for American politics is found in the reverse, the photographic negative, of all these trends. In leaders who affirm and exemplify the nobility of the political enterprise. In arguments that elevate principle above expediency. In institutions that shape character, confront corruption, take the side of the exploited and echo the newly pertinent question: “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”


Those who have paywall problems, I have pretty much copy/pasted the whole thing for you.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 10th, 2017, 1:32 pm
by toucana
Here's a fascinating video clip of a recent interview in which Roy Moore ends up speaking fluent Russian.

https://twitter.com/crookita/status/939688516933554176

At the very end of the interview in which the Alabama judge criticises America and speaks up for Vladimir Putin, the interviewer asks Roy Moore what he would say if he ever met Putin in person.

Здравствуйте, Как поживаешь

comes the reply in fluent Russian. ("Hello. How are you")

Whilst members of the Grand Old Pedophile party may be gratified to learn that Ray Moore is so well prepared to join Donald Trump's senatorial team - (extensive experience of sexually assaulting young women, a pronounced admiration for Vladimir Putin, and the ability to speak fluent Russian), it might also arouse some curiosity among his critics as to quite how and when he acquired his fluent Russian.

His documented educational background was at West Point as a military policeman, a BSc, and then as a provincial Alabama lawyer. Speaking Russian would not have been a priority skill in that profession, nor indeed during his miltary service which was in Vietnam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 11:15 am
by Braininvat
http://www.al.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/12/roy_moore_and_a_12_year-old_wh.html#incart_river_home

Colorful observations and political cartoons from J.D. Crowe, in Birmingham, Alabama.

Important barometer vote today for the U.S. as a whole. Find out what a Trump endorsement is really worth. Trump's approval rating stands at 32% at the moment (but higher in Alabama, which has been a deep red state since the early 90s).

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 2:18 pm
by SciameriKen
Braininvat » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:15 pm wrote:http://www.al.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/12/roy_moore_and_a_12_year-old_wh.html#incart_river_home

Colorful observations and political cartoons from J.D. Crowe, in Birmingham, Alabama.

Important barometer vote today for the U.S. as a whole. Find out what a Trump endorsement is really worth. Trump's approval rating stands at 32% at the moment (but higher in Alabama, which has been a deep red state since the early 90s).



I predict Moore will win this election -- the voters there are currently in the first stage: Denial -- after he is elected I am sure more evidence will start coming out and he will be forced to resign and they will replace him with a new republican. The fault of this will be on Jones if you ask me who appears to be keeping with the democrat platform instead of adopting what the people of Alabama want. Of course knowing what Alabaman's want I kinda wish they left from the union back in the 1850's

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 2:45 pm
by toucana
I find myself thinking of a comment made by Adlai Stevenson when he was campaigning as the Democrat presidential candidate in the 1952 election.

Stevenson had just delivered a mesmerising speech, and was complimented from the floor by a woman who said:

"What an eloquent speech. You'll certainly have the support of every thinking voter."

"Thank you" replied Stevenson. "But unfortunately I need a majority."

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 5:23 pm
by Serpent
Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't - the loyal voters are far more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to him than his victims. (Alabama has never been particularly female-friendly.) Nobody's perfect; girls are just collateral damage.
So is the law: this guy's been stood down as a judge - twice - and they put him back.
They're used to him.
The point was well made in some interviews I saw on the news last night. "We want our senator to represent our special brand of bigotry." If they'd been offered a morally cleaner bigot, they might have taken that option, but it's too late for that.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 7:12 pm
by Braininvat
SciameriKen » December 12th, 2017, 11:18 am wrote:
Braininvat » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:15 pm wrote:http://www.al.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/12/roy_moore_and_a_12_year-old_wh.html#incart_river_home

Colorful observations and political cartoons from J.D. Crowe, in Birmingham, Alabama.

Important barometer vote today for the U.S. as a whole. Find out what a Trump endorsement is really worth. Trump's approval rating stands at 32% at the moment (but higher in Alabama, which has been a deep red state since the early 90s).



I predict Moore will win this election -- the voters there are currently in the first stage: Denial -- after he is elected I am sure more evidence will start coming out and he will be forced to resign and they will replace him with a new republican. The fault of this will be on Jones if you ask me who appears to be keeping with the democrat platform instead of adopting what the people of Alabama want. Of course knowing what Alabaman's want I kinda wish they left from the union back in the 1850's


There will be a lot of "should haves" if Moore wins - moving to the center, having more substantial outreach to African-Americans, getting Shelby to voice his disapproval of Moore way earlier, etc. My attempts to be Nostradamus usually end up in "Nostra-dammit!" so I make no attempt to call this election. The polls have all diverged wildly, from dead heat to ten percent either way, which is owing to the fact that it's a unique special election in December with all kinds of national exposure and people in the burbs who are struggling to decide which is worse, abortion or paedophilia. Some of them clearly don't care much about children once they are successfully emerged from the womb. But some do, so I have a tiny hope that some will feel pricklings of conscience in the voting booth as regards incinerating the remaining moral compass of the Republican Party in order to get that one Senate vote.

But, as Serpent notes, a lot of folks like the devil they know. Both Moore and Trump seem to have the sort of frontal lobe damage that makes you just say whatever idiot thing pops into your head.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 11:37 pm
by toucana
Alabama_CNN.png

Whoa !

Doug Jones has won the Senate election in Alabama according to CNN projections.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 12th, 2017, 11:39 pm
by zetreque
I'd rather watch the live because it's very close and not over yet.
https://www.nytimes.com/elections/resul ... doug-jones

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 12:14 am
by Serpent
Be an interesting next couple of years for the alt-right, if this is true.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 12:50 am
by Braininvat
Wow! If ALABAMA can elect a Democrat....just sayin'.

And, even better, he's an experienced career prosecutor! That should come in really handy, these days! I'm about to resume my childhood faith in the existence of Santa Claus.

Looks like Trump's coattails are continuing their shrinking process.

Happy Hannukah, Roy Moore.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 10:50 am
by SciameriKen
Braininvat » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:50 am wrote:Wow! If ALABAMA can elect a Democrat....just sayin'.

And, even better, he's an experienced career prosecutor! That should come in really handy, these days! I'm about to resume my childhood faith in the existence of Santa Claus.

Looks like Trump's coattails are continuing their shrinking process.

Happy Hannukah, Roy Moore.



I am so glad to be wrong! lol that was way too close!

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 1:52 pm
by Braininvat
Favorite headline:

"Voters ban Moore from National Mall."

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 2:17 pm
by Watson
Nice news to wake up to, and a panda playing in the snow. Life is good....oh ya trump.
With such a no brainer outcome, the obvious question is, why was it even close? Was it because some powers that be, had the intention and where with all, to convince the electorate that many women are telling the same false truth. Is this not voter manipulation? Or is it just campaigning? Clearing, if the other side had a campaign calling moore a pedophile, with out proof, would be off side. How is it different from moore's campaign saying he is not a pedophile. Again with out proof. There was no proof the women were not truthful. The point I'm trying to get at is, they are using a false premise to manipulate the vote? The fact is not that it didn't work. The fact is, it did work, just not well enough. That's why it was so close.

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 3:25 pm
by zetreque
Watson » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:17 am wrote:Nice news to wake up to, and a panda playing in the snow. Life is good....oh ya trump.
With such a no brainer outcome, the obvious question is, why was it even close? Was it because some powers that be, had the intention and where with all, to convince the electorate that many women are telling the same false truth. Is this not voter manipulation? Or is it just campaigning? Clearing, if the other side had a campaign calling moore a pedophile, with out proof, would be off side. How is it different from moore's campaign saying he is not a pedophile. Again with out proof. There was no proof the women were not truthful. The point I'm trying to get at is, they are using a false premise to manipulate the vote? The fact is not that it didn't work. The fact is, it did work, just not well enough. That's why it was so close.


I found this to be helpful in understanding this issue.

5 Young Women in Alabama Explain Why They're Voting for Roy Moore
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a14401897/roy-moore-female-supporters-voters/

Five Alabama Voters on Why They Support Roy Moore
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/us/r ... rters.html

Re: GOP Leaders Tell Roy Moore To Stand Aside

PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 5:24 pm
by SciameriKen
Watson » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:17 pm wrote:Nice news to wake up to, and a panda playing in the snow. Life is good....oh ya trump.
With such a no brainer outcome, the obvious question is, why was it even close? Was it because some powers that be, had the intention and where with all, to convince the electorate that many women are telling the same false truth. Is this not voter manipulation? Or is it just campaigning? Clearing, if the other side had a campaign calling moore a pedophile, with out proof, would be off side. How is it different from moore's campaign saying he is not a pedophile. Again with out proof. There was no proof the women were not truthful. The point I'm trying to get at is, they are using a false premise to manipulate the vote? The fact is not that it didn't work. The fact is, it did work, just not well enough. That's why it was so close.



From my facebook feed, that sees both red and blue content, I felt the biggest rationale for supporting Moore was the timing of the allegations - such that they felt it was all a Democrat plot to unseat him. Aside from that others felt the allegations were dated (Why after 30 years?).

Of course, its really just red team versus blue team - these individuals are quick to jump all over Franken for sexual misconduct, but easily defend Trump, which suggests that they are against sexual misconduct, when it suits them.