MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

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MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby toucana on April 10th, 2018, 7:20 am 

This segment from last night's Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC provided some of the most insightful discussion on the Michael Cohen search warrant story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40efo-fwYY

Suffice to say that the level of probable cause that prosecutors would have to show to a judge to obtain a 'no knock' search warrant against the president's personal attorney would have been considerable, and the judge would not have issued a warrant in the face of client-attorney privilege issues if there wasn't a strong prima facie case that such privilege was over-riddden by the possibility of criminal conspiracy between the attorney in question and one or more of their clients.

Also of note is that the prosecuting authority is the Southern District New York formerly run by US Attorney Preet Bharara who was controversially dismissed by the Trump administration in March 2017. The search warrant request which arose from a referral by Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office was signed off by Geoffrey S. Berman, a Trump administration appointee who only became acting Attorney for SDNY in January 2018.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby Braininvat on April 10th, 2018, 9:30 am 

Trump's rant at yesterday's press conference where he was questioned about the raid on Cohen's office was quite the sad spectacle. Taking a sip of a libation every time he said "it's a disgrace" would have gotten you pretty drunk. All that was missing was his blaming disloyal officers about missing strawberries....

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/4135 ... rries.html
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby Watson on April 10th, 2018, 10:54 am 

This is all pretty sad. Anyone in TV, and reality TV in particular should agree this is wrong. This is obviously the work of a bunch of news folks, tripping over each other in the rush to blurt out the next sounds bite regardless of the impact on the audience. Can they not wait, slow down and save some of these tidbits for a later, more appropriate time and place? They are just spoiling the trial. Do you really want to listen to a trail that is just rehashing the old news? No, we need something held back, to be spontaneously blurted out under the pressures of direct cross examination, perhaps near the end of the day, where the jurors, gasp in shock and surprise and slamming her gavel, the judge cautions and announces an adjournment until the next morning.
All this, is just spoiling a well written trial.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby wolfhnd on April 10th, 2018, 3:37 pm 

Disgraceful violation of attorney client privilege and the constitution.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby toucana on April 10th, 2018, 4:02 pm 

In case you missed it:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-stormy-daniels-latest-denies-knowing-lawyer-paid-130000-a8291136.html

A couple of days ago, president Trump denied on camera to journalists onboard Air Force Once that he knew anything about his attorney Michael Cohen paying $130,000 to porn star Stormy Daniels. His exact words were:
“You'll have to ask Michael Cohen. Michael is my attorney. You'll have to ask Michael.”

If that is true, then there can be no issue of client attorney privilege, because if true, Trump never discussed any such matter with his attorney in the first place and there is no privileged communication to protect.

If he is lying about never having discussed such a matter with his attorney, then it raises a reasonable presumption that he has something to conceal, and that he and his attorney are engaged in some form of criminal conspiracy.

This is why people who are targets of criminal investigations are normally advised by any competent attorney to keep their mouths firmly shut in public.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby Braininvat on April 10th, 2018, 5:49 pm 

wolfhnd » April 10th, 2018, 12:37 pm wrote:Disgraceful violation of attorney client privilege and the constitution.


Bear in mind that if it's the attorney himself for whom there is probable cause of criminal acts, then ACP would not apply. I would think that if you sympathize with Trump, then having the heat on Cohen rather than Trump would not be the worst situation. As for the POTUS, remember that his Constitutional protections do not shield him from a Congressional proceeding of impeachment if evidence emerges of "high crimes and misdemeanors."

This, from former US attorney Harry Sandick (S. NY) may be helpful to you...


But that doesn't mean that attorney-client privilege is a magical blanket that covers any and all scrutiny. It doesn't. There are, in fact, a number of exceptions.

Perhaps the most frequently cited is known as the "crime-fraud exception." Boiled down to the basics, this says that discussions between a lawyer and client about a future crime or fraud are not privileged. Conversations about past crimes, however, are.

So a mafia boss can't send an email to his attorney that says, "I want you to arrange the murder of my enemy" and then keep that email out of evidence in court by citing attorney-client privilege.

Sandick points to a few other notable exceptions. If a lawyer is communicating with a third party, for example, those conversations are not privileged. Or if a lawyer is giving business advice, that is not protected either.

FBI special agents and Justice Department officials could be looking for those kinds of elements in the electronic devices, papers or other materials they seized from Cohen.

"There are lots of things a lawyer might retain that aren't covered by privilege," Sandick says.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby wolfhnd on April 10th, 2018, 6:19 pm 

I was just as disappointed in the way they went after Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. This a bipartisan issue of overreach in investigations. Mueller is way outside his mandate.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby Watson on April 10th, 2018, 7:05 pm 

May be he is, but if he comes across 'stuff' that is inappropriate or illegal, should he ignore it because it is outside his job description? It may be inappropriate for him to pursue it, but nothing wrong with him passing it along to the proper authorities that do have the authority to look into it further. And if it did, or would have happened differently with other people, other parties or other times. The difference this time is trump has no one watching his back, so to speak? He has compromised, or alienated everyone around him. I seriously doubt he is getting any heads up warnings, or defensive help. He is out of people rely on. The bully is standing in the school yard with no one to intimidate or to impress.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby toucana on April 10th, 2018, 7:33 pm 

Wolfhnd wrote:
I was just as disappointed in the way they went after Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. This a bipartisan issue of overreach in investigations. Mueller is way outside his mandate.

Just over seven days ago the office of the Special counsel made an additional filing in respect of criminal charges against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort which made public for the first time a redacted copy of a lengthy classified memo written by AG Rod Rosenstein in August 2017 which clarified exactly what Mueller's investigative brief was.

You can read the document here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/03/politics/read-rosenstein-aug-2-memo/index.html

The memo makes it clear that the Special counsel was explicitly authorised to investigate Paul Manafort's role in colluding with proxies of the Russian government in their efforts to interfere with the 2016 US presidential election, and also to investigate money laundering and any other criminal offences arising from Manafort's prior Ukraine related activities.

This seems to be exactly what Robert Mueller has been doing, right on the dotted line. I fail to understand what possible basis you have for arguing that Mueller is 'way outside his mandate'? He very clearly isn't.
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby toucana on April 26th, 2018, 2:49 am 

Michael Cohen the personal attorney of president Trump has filed papers in the district court of Los Angeles indicating that he plans to plead the Fifth Amendment in the Stormy Daniels case.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/25/politics/michael-cohen-fifth-amendment/index.html

The plea is part of a legal strategy with his attorney Brent Blakely to argue for a stay in that civil case, in the hope that Judge Otero will ultimately rule that it be sent to private arbitration.

Cohen is clearly afraid that answering questions about Stormy Daniels in Los Angeles might further incriminate him in the FBI criminal investigation into his affairs in New York.

Michael Avenatti, Daniels' attorney, called Cohen's declaration "a stunning development."

"Never before in our nation's history has the attorney for the sitting President invoked the 5th Amend in connection with issues surrounding the President," Avenatti tweeted. "It is esp. stunning seeing as MC served as the 'fixer' for Mr. Trump for over 10 yrs. #basta."

As somone else once famously observed:
"The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?

Now who could that have been ?
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Re: MAGA - 'My Attorney Got Arrested'

Postby Braininvat on April 26th, 2018, 9:56 am 

toucana » April 10th, 2018, 4:33 pm wrote:Wolfhnd wrote:
I was just as disappointed in the way they went after Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. This a bipartisan issue of overreach in investigations. Mueller is way outside his mandate.

Just over seven days ago the office of the Special counsel made an additional filing in respect of criminal charges against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort which made public for the first time a redacted copy of a lengthy classified memo written by AG Rod Rosenstein in August 2017 which clarified exactly what Mueller's investigative brief was.

You can read the document here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/03/politics/read-rosenstein-aug-2-memo/index.html

The memo makes it clear that the Special counsel was explicitly authorised to investigate Paul Manafort's role in colluding with proxies of the Russian government in their efforts to interfere with the 2016 US presidential election, and also to investigate money laundering and any other criminal offences arising from Manafort's prior Ukraine related activities.

This seems to be exactly what Robert Mueller has been doing, right on the dotted line. I fail to understand what possible basis you have for arguing that Mueller is 'way outside his mandate'? He very clearly isn't.


Wolfhound, do you have a response to this post? If you initiated an issue here, I would think intellectual integrity calls you to address a factual response.
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