New Novichok Attack

Anyone can post and discuss breaking news that interest them (please respect posting guidelines and be sure to reference properly).
Forum rules
Please be sure to check our forum's Rules & Guidelines

New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 4th, 2018, 7:25 pm 

This time in Amesbury, Wiltshire. Not far from the last attack, it has been confirmed that a man and a woman are in hospital undergoing similar treatment to the Skripals I should think.

If this is the act of a hostile power, we can expect a state of war to arise. If it is a rouge player, things may not be as politically bad, but hard to locate. The actor in this has demonstrated skill and training tho, so applying occam's razor could help narrow the field some.

I do hope these folks are ok. Sorry to have to bring you this news again.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby toucana on July 4th, 2018, 7:37 pm 

Update:
A pair of British residents are critically ill in hospital after being poisoned with the same type of Novichok nerve agent used to attack Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in March. The latest victims were living in the Wiltshire village of Amesbury, just eight miles from Salisbury where the original Novichok attack took place.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44719639

The latest victims are a local couple named by news agencies as Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess. They were taken to Salisbury General hospital a short time apart after being discovered unconscious at a property in Muggleton Road Amesbury.

Press reports indicate that the local police initially thought they were responding to a drug overdose incident as both victims were thought to be recreational drug users. The nature and severity of the symptoms quickly prompted a very different response with paramedics in Hazchem suits, and full decontamination drills being carried out. A number of locations in both Amesbury and in Salisbury have been sealed off while Counter Terrorism police units attempt to reconstruct the couple’s movements. The woman who is a mother of three was said to have attended a fete for families and children at Amesbury village hall shortly before she collapsed.

The news that Novichok was to blame was confirmed within the last hour following analysis at the defence research facility at Porton Down, Wiltshire.

A COBRA briefing is taking place involving the British prime minister and members of the cabinet in London.

The latest victims don't appear to have visited any of the areas quarantined and decontaminated in the previous Skripal incidents. One possibility is that they stumbled upon a concealed or discarded residue of the batch used in the March attack.

There is nothing to indicate that the latest victims had any connection to the world of foreign agents, assassins, or informants.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 4th, 2018, 8:30 pm 

Thanks for the details. My head was whirring, trying to understand it. Was it linked? Are we gonna get a bunch of assumptions and outrage and zoom off in the wrong direction?
This guy is a pro, or an ex-pro. We think he answers to the FSB, but he might not. Is he a sleeper agent? Who'se? How much Novichok has he got? Will he break cover? Who'se paying him? and what the hell is the agenda? No claims have been made as far as I know.

Intense.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Watson on July 4th, 2018, 8:34 pm 

....or it could be accidental exposure........as toucana comment suggested. ?
User avatar
Watson
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4619
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Earth, middle of the top half, but only briefly each 24 hours.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 4th, 2018, 8:42 pm 

Yeah, I all different permutations and scenarios whizzing around my head. It could be accidental, but I think unlikely because the assailant has been trained to respect such compounds and treat them with utmost care and respect. Such people tend not to be very accident-prone. Its still breaking news and will develop as usual.
Your optimism is a pleasant foil to by brooding worry. Thanks.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby toucana on July 5th, 2018, 3:27 am 

The Daily Mail among other sources is reporting that Charlie Rowley 45, one of the two victims of the latest Novichok poisoning incident, was a registered heroin addict.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5919211/Amesbury-couple-exposed-Novichok-poison-fight-lives.html

The timeline offered, if correct, indicates that both victims visited a Boots pharmacy on the Friday before the woman was taken ill on Saturday, and that the man visited the Boots pharmacy again on the Saturday afternoon before being taken ill himself.

Regular visits to a dispensing pharmacy by a registered heroin addict would be consistent with them being in a Methadone treatment program for opioid addiction. (Methadone is normally supplied as a tapering agent in an oral dose form, and offers about six hours relief from withdrawal symptoms).

The reported facts here rather suggest that the couple were opioid addicts who somehow found a discarded syringe or ampoule, and became contaminated by Novichok after handling it.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 5th, 2018, 7:49 pm 

The government haven't said much that I've heard about it. If the attacker managed to contaminate a batch, there would be carnage. Could they have found it? The cops spent a long time cleaning up, and syringes are available through chemists and organizations enrolled in the needle exchange scheme.
Maybe these people were high and poisoned. Some people don't regard killing addicts a crime, extreme dehumanization.
If the attacker is trying to confuse me, it's working!
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Watson on July 5th, 2018, 10:16 pm 

If you read the comments provided toucana, the suggestion is that perhaps there was some contaminated material from the spring attack that was not found and cleaned up. The resent victims came across it and got a dose of the poison. It may be just that simple. So relax.
User avatar
Watson
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4619
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Earth, middle of the top half, but only briefly each 24 hours.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 6th, 2018, 10:44 pm 

Everything appears to be heading for the accidental poisoning scenario. It seem a bit unprofessional leaving it around though. One thing it may indicate is that this Novichok variant is apparently highly persistent and stable, more so than previously thought I think. We do not know the location or the vector, absorption, ingestion or whatever at this time as far as I know.
Nobody is attacking Russia at this time, which is in stark contrast with the rumpus the last event caused.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby toucana on July 8th, 2018, 5:03 pm 

Dawn Sturgess 44, the woman who was taken critically ill on 29 June after being contaminated with Novichok nerve agent has died in hospital in Salisbury.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/amesbury-salisbury-nerve-agent-dawn-sturgess-woman-dies-exposure-a8437776.html
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby curiosity on July 9th, 2018, 12:02 am 

Hmmm, most strange... The first instance involving Novichok satisfies the criteria for being an attack, the second incidence is most likely a case of accidental exposure. The burning questions are...Who was responsible for the attack ? Followed by, could it have been a false flag attack?
At least (As far as I'm aware) Boris Johnson hasn't made himself look stupid again by lying about there being evidence that Russia is involved. (Ive been much to busy watching the FIFA world cup to keep up to date with such matters)
Trump is already doing his level best to instigate world war three and doesnt need the help of a bumbling unconvincing dim-wit like Johnson.
I would like to think we will soon discover the truth regarding these events, but I don't intend to hold my breath until it happens, as it will likelybe years, not days, weeks, or months, before it comes out.
curiosity
Member
 
Posts: 386
Joined: 19 Jul 2012


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 9th, 2018, 2:04 pm 

If someone had an agenda to turn the west against Russia, I'd say they are doing a good job.

The danger is the Novichok, I believe to be Novichok 5, is still loose in the environs of Amesbury. Novichok is far more persistent in the field than many other agents such as VX. Some of these agents would be used in war to deny an area to the enemy, while simultaneously designed to defeat the NBC gear routinely used by NATO.

I am hoping the man will survive long enough to inform the authorities what he found, and where they found it.
I have a hunch they thought they found some illicit drugs like heroin which is also just a powder. But time will tell, hopefully.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 11th, 2018, 8:25 pm 

The man poisoned with Novichok recently has recovered sufficiently that he was able to speak to the police. Hopefully the source can now be recovered and made safe.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby toucana on July 19th, 2018, 3:41 am 

A number of UK newspapers carry this report today:
A source with knowledge of the investigation told the Press Association: “Investigators believe they have identified the suspected perpetrators of the novichok attack through CCTV and have cross-checked this with records of people who entered the country around that time. They are sure [the suspects] are Russian.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-novichok-attack-skripal-russian-suspects-poisoning-police-investigation-a8453931.html

Police officers had collected 5,000 hours of CCTV from the local area during the course of their enquiries.

In an analysis of samples taken from the Skripals' home, the highest concentrations of the toxic chemical was found on door handles.

The day before the pair were found unconscious by members of the public in Salisbury town centre, Mr Skripal was driven to Heathrow Airport by a friend to collect his daughter returning from the Russian capital, Moscow.

This left around a five-hour window for the attackers to visit their home to apply the nerve agent.

https://news.sky.com/story/suspected-perpetrators-of-skripal-novichok-attack-identified-11441349

The breakthrough comes as an inquest is opened into the death of Dawn Sturgess.

She and her partner Charlie Rowley, both from Amesbury which is situated about eight miles north of Salisbury, were poisoned by novichok believed to be from the same batch as that used to target the Skripals.

Ms Sturgess, 44, died earlier this month - eight days after being exposed to 10 times the amount of nerve agent the former spy and his daughter came into contact with.

Investigators believe the substance was in a discarded perfume bottle that the couple found in a park and that Ms Sturgess likely sprayed the substance directly onto her skin in the mistaken belief that it was perfume.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby toucana on July 19th, 2018, 5:25 am 

The sickest thing is that this could have been anyone's 12 or 13 year-old daughter. A young teen dreaming perhaps of being a grown-up and beautiful woman who picked up that perfume bottle and sprayed some on the back of her hand, and held it to her nose to see what scent it had...
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 21st, 2018, 12:58 pm 

I suspect the bottle may have been dumped because it was possibly too dangerous to hold on to. It would seem irresponsible, it could easily have killed children as Toucana points out. The guy has been sent home while the police search to find other evidence. Apparently a number of items have indeed been recovered, but no word yet as to what these items may be.
As Toucana says, police think they have suspects or a suspect they would interview, which could prove invaluable in understanding or breaking this case. I wish them luck. Already we have seen many twists and turns.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.


Re: New Novichok Attack

Postby Event Horizon on July 30th, 2018, 4:49 am 

According to BBC radio reports, The woman killed by the Novichok nerve toxin, Dawn, is to be buried today. Interestingly, the mourners are being kept well away from the casket as a precaution. It just goes to show how toxic the nerve toxin was. I personally can't remember this happening before in civilian life.
User avatar
Event Horizon
Member
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Location: England somewhere.



Return to News Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests