Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Anyone can post and discuss breaking news that interest them (please respect posting guidelines and be sure to reference properly).
Forum rules
Please be sure to check our forum's Rules & Guidelines

Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby Braininvat on August 12th, 2018, 1:28 pm 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/11/opin ... eft-region


Using this method, Mr. Kemp blocked nearly 35,000 people from the voter rolls. Equally important, African-Americans, who made up a third of the registrants, accounted for almost 66 percent of the rejected applicants. And Asian-Americans and Latino voters were more than six times as likely as whites to have been stymied from registering.

But as diligent as he has been about purging eligible citizens from the voter rolls, Mr. Kemp has been just as lax about the cybersecurity of the state’s 27,000 electronic voting machines. Although there were a series of warnings about the ease with which they could be hacked, Mr. Kemp did not respond. Georgia’s electronic voting machines, which run on Windows 2000, leave no paper trail; as a result, there is no way to verify whether the counts are accurate or whether the vote has been hacked.

But the Department of Homeland Security warned him that hacking was a possibility. He ignored that until 2016, when, at a DefCon hacker convention in Las Vegas, an organization took control over the way Georgia’s voting machines register and store votes, although it had little expertise in voting matters. Mr. Kemp finally accepted federal dollars, which he had refused for years, to update some of the machines. But his efforts were too little, too late.

That complacency was evident when groups sued the state, alleging that the 2016 presidential election and a 2017 special election had been hacked. Rather than being on high alert to get to the bottom of it, after Mr. Kemp received notification of the lawsuit, officials at Kennesaw State University, which provides logistical support for the state’s election machinery, “destroyed the server that housed statewide election data.” That series of events, including an April visit to the small campus by Ambassador Sergey Kislyak of Russia, raised warning flags to many observers. But not to Mr. Kemp, who said that there was nothing untoward in any of it; the erasure was “in accordance with standard IT procedures.”
User avatar
Braininvat
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 6693
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 2:18 pm 

Ever since I voted in the 2004 election and the final page where it shows you your selections before you cast your final vote to be recorded on paper was DIFFERENT from the choices I previously selected (and I had to go back and change them), I record my entire voting booth experience on camera now when I vote. I encourage everyone to do this and be extra observant.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby toucana on August 12th, 2018, 4:14 pm 

In UK you are strongly discouraged from any taking of photographs inside a polling station, and you are specifically barred from taking photographs of the unique identifying number on your ballot paper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43983595

It's a criminal offence under section 66 of the 1983 Representation Of The People Act. You can be prosecuted and fined up to £5000 for breaching this.

Similar laws apply in many US states as well. Back in 2016, pop star Justin Timberlake landed himself in hot water when he posted a picture on Instagram of himself voting in the US election in Memphis, Tennessee - where it is illegal to take photos inside polling locations. But the authorities decided not to take any action.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37770262
Last edited by toucana on August 12th, 2018, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 4:22 pm 

toucana » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:14 pm wrote:In UK you are strongly discouraged from any taking photographs inside a polling station, and you are specifically barred from taking photographs of the unique identifying number on your ballot paper.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43983595

It's a criminal offence under section 66 of the 1983 Representation Of The People Act. You can be prosecuted and fined up to £5000 for breaching this.

Similar laws apply in many US states as well. Back in 2016, pop star Justin Timberlake landed himself in hot water when he posted a picture on Instagram of himself voting in the US election in Memphis, Tennessee - where it is illegal to take photos inside polling locations. But the authorities decided not to take any action.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37770262


Well if they want to combat fraud, hacking, and criminal activities they should encourage people to film their own voting. Obviously that's why it's a voting BOX or BOOTH so others can't see who you are voting for.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby toucana on August 12th, 2018, 4:38 pm 

It's a criminal offence to publish any photograph taken within a voting station that might disseminate information about how anyone, yourself included, might have voted.

Even if you took a photo within the privacy of the booth without anyone else knowing about it, what could you possibly do with such a photo thereafter ?

If you subsequently attempted to publish or share it with any other person or party, you would immediately incriminate yourself as having committed a serious criminal offence.

The photo is worthless from an evidential point of view - as it would be anyway, given the ease with which all digital photographic images and videos can altered and edited.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 4:41 pm 

toucana » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:38 pm wrote:It's a criminal offence to publish any photograph taken within a voting station that might disseminate information about how anyone, yourself included, might have voted.

Even if you took a photo within the privacy of the booth without anyone else knowing about it, what could you possibly do with such a photo thereafter ?

If you subsequently attempted to publish or share it with any other person or party, you would immediately incriminate yourself as having committed a serious criminal offence.

The photo is worthless from an evidential point of view - as it would be anyway, given the ease with which all digital photographic images and videos can altered and edited.


That's all fine and dandy but what purpose does that serve other than potential suppression of criminal activity and loss of transparency?
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 4:55 pm 

Break down state by state. The trend is moving toward legalizing it. If you were the victim of your voting booth being hacked, wouldn't you like to have evidence?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dont-be-a-justin-timberlake-your-guide-to-ballot-selfie-rules-across-u-s/
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby toucana on August 12th, 2018, 5:03 pm 

The optimum solution is to use a voting system that generates a separate paper trail of receipts that can be audited by electoral investigators in cases of suspected fraud, but without compromising the secrecy of the ballot.

This is done is UK, and in many other established western democracies, notably the German electoral system. It is also currently done in many US states as well.

As a matter of fact, according to this recent article published by Axios, there are only five states within the USA that *don't* currently use voting systems with paper receipts.

https://www.axios.com/five-states-without-paper-trail-of-votes-32801015-4ba1-4b41-80ca-ebab2cdda087.html

The five culprits are :
Louisiana
Georgia
South Carolina
New Jersey
Delaware

(Virginia switched to machines that provide a paper trail in just about two months last year after it discovered machines in about 22 localities were at risk of tampering.)
Last edited by toucana on August 12th, 2018, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 5:05 pm 

You didn't answer the question. How does banning ballot selfies help and not harm society and the voting system? If the law was to get a tattoo of a swastika, would you?
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby toucana on August 12th, 2018, 5:29 pm 

You didn't answer the question. How does banning ballot selfies help and not harm society and the voting system?

I didn't answer the question because the answer seemed to be so completely obvious to anyone who thought about it for a second or so.

If you take a casual picture of yourself inside a polling station, or even worse within a voting booth, then you probably have no idea what information you might be inadvertently disseminating about yourself or other people.

Did you actually look at that selfie Justin Timberlake took in the voting station in Mississippi ? You can clearly see a paper voting receipt with some sort of numerical identification or scannable barcode printed across it poking out of a slot on the machine.

You might think it's so small as to be unreadable. Well think again.The resolution on modern smartphone cameras is so good, that forensic investigators have been able to capture fingerprints from selfie photographs of suspects whose faces were obscured. They were able to blow the images up to such a size that they could recover the individual whorls and ridges of the guys fingerprints, and ID them from criminal records or SOC data.

There have been numerous examples in the last couple of years of public officials who inadvertently disclosed highly confidential information simply by carrying documents around in transparent plastic wallets in public places without realising that an opportunistic snap by a paparazzi journalist armed with a good quality digital SLR camera could capture the document in enough detail to print it in foot high letters all over the next day's morning papers.

As a matter of fact it happened to Donald Trump the other week at his infamous "Would/Woudn't" press conference after the Helsinki conference. Press cameras could read his notes upside down and at an angle with ease, and it was the work of moments to invert and enhance the text in software
Last edited by toucana on August 12th, 2018, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 5:32 pm 

toucana » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:29 pm wrote:
If you take a casual picture of yourself inside a polling station, or even worse within a voting booth, then you probably have no idea what information you might be inadvertently disseminating about yourself or other people.


Same goes for if you take a picture of yourself doing unquestionable things naked, or your drivers license or your tax bill or anything else you want to post on social media. Where do we draw the line for laws to protect being stupid? To me the ability to record my own voting record and experience is important. Especially after the encounter I had with a fraudulent voting machine.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 5:42 pm 

By that same logic it should be illegal to record any conversations I have or record myself period for the reason I might incriminate myself.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby toucana on August 12th, 2018, 5:54 pm 

I don't want to trivialise or dispute your account of meeting with a fraudulent/suspect voting machine. I regard them with deep suspicion myself.

Back at the time of the 2000 US presidential election when the news cycle was being dominated by discussions of 'hanging chads' and 'butterfly ballots', I came upon a promotional web-page with what was supposed to be a functional Java emulator of the latest Diebold electronic voting machine that was coming into wide use by then.

It took me only a matter of moments to break the security on that Diebold device emulator. In fact I broke it so thoroughly, that I managed to add my own name into the ballot paper as a write-in candidate, and then vote for myself several hundred times over. - I have regarded American election systems with a certain degree of caution ever since.

The problem however is to find a solution that isn't even worse than the original problem. Relying on everyone in the country taking selfies of themselves casting their own votes doesn't seem to be a scalable or satisfactory solution I'm afraid.

I still favour the German voting system model. Everything done on paper and counted and double-checked by hand. It takes several weeks to formally complete the verification - the results are always called on the night by German media on the basis of exit polls which are never more than 0.2% adrift of the final certified count too.
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby zetreque on August 12th, 2018, 6:14 pm 

I never said it was the solution. However, if voting machines were switching a person's vote and it was recorded on camera, that would be good evidence for an investigation over just taking someone's word for it. It's also riskier for someone to attempt such a hack.

Simplistically, I would think one basic solution would be having the electronic record from the voting machine, and having the printed paper record that you can verify that prints out physically. Then when it's all in, you take the paper record and compare it to the electronic to make sure everything matches up.

What I don't understand is where the vulnerability is if any ballot information like bar codes or names leaked anyway? Do you think someone could hack that barcode and change who the person voted for?

The stupidity of posting information online that can open yourself up for attack is one thing, but do we need laws that are just common sense? Cellphones have all sorts of apps for erasing and covering up parts of pictures these days.
User avatar
zetreque
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Paradise being lost to humanity
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: Voter suppression in Georgia, USA

Postby toucana on August 12th, 2018, 6:45 pm 

do we need laws that are just common sense?

"Common sense is not so common" - (Voltaire)
User avatar
toucana
Chatroom Operator
 
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Bristol UK
Blog: View Blog (7)



Return to News Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron