Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

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Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 10th, 2018, 11:42 am 

Kashoggi.jpg
Jamal Kashoggi

Diplomatic relations between Saudi Arabia and the rest of the world are moving towards a crisis after Turkish President Erdogan accused Saudi Arabia of murdering and dismembering Jamal Kashoggi, a prominent dissident journalist, on Turkish soil within the precincts of the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/10/middleeast/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-investigation-intl/index.html

The Washington Post who employed Jamal Kashoggi as a correspondent has published a very detailed account of the mystery based on information obtained from Turkish security sources, and some gathered from US intelligence sources as well. It’s a remarkable story.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/saudis-lay-in-wait-for-jamal-khashoggi-and-left-turkey-quickly-sources-say/2018/10/09/0e283e2e-cbc5-11e8-ad0a-0e01efba3cc1_story.html?utm_term=.70a1efffe541.

Last Tuesday Mr Kashoggi who is a prominent critic of the Saudi regime went to the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul with his fiancee Hatoce Kengiz who is Turkish, in order to obtain documentation needed to marry her. Saudi diplomatic staff refused to allow her to enter the premises, so Mr Kashoggi went in alone. He never came out again.

Saudi officials claim that Mr Kashoggi left the consulate later by another exit, but his fiancee denies this, and no CCTV footage has been presented to back up the Saudi claims. Instead the Turkish government claims that a 15 man assassination squad that had flown in from Saudi Arabia was lying in wait for Mr Kashoggi, and that he was killed and dismembered with a bone saw specially brought for the purpose. They claim his body was later removed in baggage shipped out with the 15 Saudi assassins who flew out of Istanbul later that day on two different private planes, one to Cairo and one to Dubai. Flight tracking indicates that both planes later flew on to Riyadh in Saudi Arabia.

The amount of detail about the alleged assassination plot offered by President Erdogan of Turkey is astonishing and quite chilling. Turkish security services say privately that the Saudi agents video documented the entire grisly process. It is difficult to believe the Turkish authorities would air such claims if they didn’t already have SIGINT and human intelligence assets within the Saudi security operations to back this up.

United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres, France and the United Kingdom have released statements on the case, with UK Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt warning that the UK would "treat the incident seriously" if media reports proved correct.

The real conundrum is what steps will be taken by the USA if these claims about the cold-blooded murder of an accredited WAPO journalist and authorised US resident are substantiated. The presumptive murder of Mr Kashoggi has already been denounced as an outrage by many other journalists. If the Saudi regime's new strongman Prince Mohamed bin Salman thought he could get away with an atrocity of this magnitude by virtue of his ties with Jared Kushner and president Trump, then he may have miscalculated.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Braininvat on October 10th, 2018, 12:38 pm 

As Robert Kagan, a WaPo columnist opined, this is further indication of the waning influence and power of the U.S. and the continuing decline of liberal democracy. If Trump and Co. are not actually Putin puppets, they are sure doing a great job at acting like them.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 12th, 2018, 4:01 am 

The Al Jazeera and CNN news agencies are both reporting that the Turkish authorities have explicit video and audio recordings of what happened to the missing WaPo journalist Jamal Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Turkish sources say they are also studying biometric data from an Apple Watch the victim was wearing that was linked to an iPhone left with his fiancee as she waited outside.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-turkey-recordings-intl/index.html

The recordings show that Khashoggi was seized by a 15 man assassination team immediately after entering the consulate and was subjected to a violent 2 hour long interrogation and beating before being murdered and dismembered. Turkish authorities have identified a number of the Saudi agents involved, including one man called Salah Muhammed al-Tubaiqi who is listed as the head of the forensic medicine department at the interior ministry of Saudi Arabia. He is said to have been the agent who brought a medical bone-saw with him to assist in the dismemberment, and also supervised the clean-up of forensic trace evidence at the murder site inside the consulate.

It is unclear whether the Turkish authorities already had audio bugs and electronic surveillance in place inside the Saudi consulate, or whether they subsequently obtained access to video documentation made by the Saudi assassination team themselves

American Senator Bob Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who has access to classified US intelligence materials has told US media sources that everything points to the journalist having been murdered last week inside the Saudi consulate. Senator Corker said that the response of Congress would be ‘Tangible’.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/saudi-story-about-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-doesnt-hold-up-says-bob-corker-everything-points-to-murde

Al Jazeera meanwhile are reporting claims by Khaled bin Farhan al-Saud, another Saudi prince living in exile in Germany that five members of the Saudi royal family who privately approached King Mohammed bin Salman to express concern about the possible consequences of this reckless assassination have themselves been arrested and thrown into prison.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 13th, 2018, 5:40 am 

It would appear that Jamal Khashoggi was using a third-party voice memo recording app installed on his iPhone to sync with the microphone on the Apple Watch he was wearing when he entered the Saudi consulate.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-turkey-recordings-intl/index.html

The Apple watchOS doesn't have a native voice memo feature, but you can install an app like Just Press Record on a paired iPhone. Once you press record start on the Apple Watch, the inbuilt mic will capture any audio it can hear and sync a voice memo file in real time to both the paired iPhone and an iCloud account.

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/09/2 ... ple-watch/

Jamal Khashoggi apparently pressed record on his Apple Watch before entering the consulate and handed his iPhone to his fiancee who waited outside. The Apple Watch captured a full audio recording of his death at the hands of the Saudi hit-team who were waiting inside.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 17th, 2018, 6:08 am 

Another explanation as to why Jamal Khashoggi might have been targeted and murdered by the Saudi secret service is starting to emerge, mainly from citizen journalists and bloggers with access to the arabic language video of an interview the dissident Saudi journalist gave to Egyptian TV shortly before his death. Some of it can be found in this Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/AmericanMousa

Background:
About a year ago in October 2017, Jared Kushner the president’s son-in-law with special responsibility for Middle Eastern affairs was allegedly involved in a singularly sordid piece of secret horse-trading. The story surfaced on CNN in March 2018 and actually cost Jared Kushner his TS/SCI security clearances for a while (they were subsequently quietly restored).

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/22/politics/jared-kushner-mohammed-bin-salman/index.html

Kushner allegedly took advantage of his privileged access to the Presidential daily security briefings to extract information derived from NSA telephone intercepts that could be sold at a profit to the Saudi Arabian regime. The information of value was a detailed list of wealthy Saudi citizens who were secretly opposed to the new strongman, Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman (aka MbS). who had recently seized power from Prince Mohammed bin Nayef the Interior minister and intended heir-apparent to the Saudi throne in July 2017.

The reward Kushner and Donald Trump expected to receive was the ongoing implementation of a lucrative arms deal with Saudi Arabia worth US$110 billion first signalled by letters of intent signed by Trump and King Salman in Riyadh in May 2017. But the new Saudi ruler MbS had no intention of paying such a sum out of his own regime’s pockets. He had a much better plan.

In early November of 2017, large numbers of wealthy Saudi oligarchs were suddenly arrested, accused of corruption and held in custody in the Ritz Carlton, one of Riyadh’s most expensive hotels until they all agreed to pay astronomical sums of money in compensation for their sins. A number of them were said to have been tortured. The arrests were said to be based entirely around the list of Saudi dissidents pilfered by Kushner from the Presidential briefings and passed to to MbS in person when Kushner flew to Riyadh, just a week before the crackdown commenced.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html

Royal Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal an incredibly rich philanthropist who has been described as the Warren Buffet of Saudi Arabia was a high profile victim of this extortion. He was eventually released three months later, after allegedly paying 400 billion ر.س - KSA riyal (U$110 billion) to the new KSA regime and signing an NDA. By a curious coincidence, the amount of money paid by Prince Al Waleed to save his own life almost exactly matches the purchase value of the purported arms contracts between USA and Saudi Arabia - US$110 billion.

Jamal Khashoggi was killed according to this theory because he had discovered the truth about the nature of this arms deal and precisely how it was being funded, and the Saudi regime feared he intended to go fully public with what he had discovered. A fear that was amplified when Jamal Khashoggi rather unwisely discussed some of his suspicions on an arabic language current affairs program broadcast on Egyptian TV shortly before his death.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 17th, 2018, 8:51 am 

The pro-government Turkish newspaper Yeni Şafak is reporting explicit details of an audio recording taken inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on 2 October that captures the last moments of Jamal Khashoggi in horrifying detail.

https://news.sky.com/story/missing-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-audio-recording-made-of-murder-11527880

Turkish media report that a 15-member Saudi "assassination squad" confronted the Washington Post writer at the embassy and his screams could be heard throughout the building.

A conversation between Saudi consul general Mohammed al-Otaibi and Mr Khashoggi can be heard on the recording, after which there was "a beating".

Yeni Safak, a strongly pro-government newspaper, said Mr al-Otaibi could be heard telling those allegedly torturing Mr Khashoggi: "Do this outside; you're going to get me in trouble."

The newspaper said one of the Saudi "torturers" replied: "Shut up if you want to live when you return to (Saudi) Arabia."

The recording also reveals Mr Khashoggi had fingers cut off and was told to "shut up" or face being killed, Yeni Safak reported.

The recording later reveals the journalist was "drugged" and "killed", before a Saudi forensics expert told others to put in headphones and listen to music while he took seven minutes to dismember the body.

Another Turkish newspaper, Sabah, on Wednesday published the names and CCTV pictures of 15 men who allegedly made a one-day trip to Istanbul on the day Jamal Khashoggi disappeared.

One of the men appears to be bodyguard Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, a regular member of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's entourage.

Another pictured is reportedly Saudi forensic expert Dr Salah Muhammed al Tubaigy.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby wolfhnd on October 17th, 2018, 11:41 am 

The Saudis are suddenly behaving differently than they have under every proceeding administration? You think the same kind of thing doesn't go on in Iran and Turkey? Let's see what do they have in common, could it be bronze age ideas about government and law?
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Braininvat on October 17th, 2018, 12:34 pm 

Unfortunately, oppression, murder of political enemies, and suppression of a free press, are not "bronze age" ideas. One only has to regress back to the monarchical system...or 20th century fascism - and that can happen even in modern democratic states - which Turkey was, not so long ago. Regardless of one's partisan affiiliations (if any), one should be asking why Trump is so very friendly to such regressive leaders. As Fox Mulder said on the X-Files: the truth is out there.

The problem is that lies can be manufactured in seconds. Getting at the truth and then communicating it is more time-consuming.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby wolfhnd on October 17th, 2018, 1:03 pm 

You can be very unfriendly and give aid indirectly to the Caliphate or promote democracy and get the Muslim Brotherhood. You can promote advantageous trade agreements that help the Chinese but deepen the dictatorship and nationalism.

It's a very dangerous time as U.S.hegemony declines and we try to restore deterrents. When we lose the petrol dollar it will be even harder to maintain deterrents.

As to historical references Hitler showed no signs of disarming after Munich. Turkey's neutrality certainly didn't help stop Hitler.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 17th, 2018, 3:04 pm 

Anyone still puzzled as to why Nikki Hayley unexpectedly resigned as US Ambassador to the UN on Tuesday 9th October ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/09/politics/nikki-haley-resignation/index.html

Just a matter of hours before The Washington Post ran its first article about the disappearance of their journalist Jamal Khashoggi the following day, on Wednesday 10th October ?
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby wolfhnd on October 17th, 2018, 11:53 pm 

toucana » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:04 pm wrote:Anyone still puzzled as to why Nikki Hayley unexpectedly resigned as US Ambassador to the UN on Tuesday 9th October ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/09/politics/nikki-haley-resignation/index.html

Just a matter of hours before The Washington Post ran its first article about the disappearance of their journalist Jamal Khashoggi the following day, on Wednesday 10th October ?


Link took me to paid content notice.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby BadgerJelly on October 18th, 2018, 2:31 am 

Braininvat » October 18th, 2018, 12:34 am wrote:Unfortunately, oppression, murder of political enemies, and suppression of a free press, are not "bronze age" ideas. One only has to regress back to the monarchical system...or 20th century fascism - and that can happen even in modern democratic states - which Turkey was, not so long ago. Regardless of one's partisan affiiliations (if any), one should be asking why Trump is so very friendly to such regressive leaders. As Fox Mulder said on the X-Files: the truth is out there.

The problem is that lies can be manufactured in seconds. Getting at the truth and then communicating it is more time-consuming.


Trump? I think you mean western policy in general. We all know why. Oil and arms deals. The difference with Trump is he openly admits what matters to the government where other politicians lie - it’s nothing new.

The UK have been making huge profits over the decades so don’t take that as a slight against US policies only.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 18th, 2018, 3:29 am 

Wolfhnd wrote:
Link took me to paid content notice.

Really ? it doesn't do anything of the sort for me. It's a straightforward link to a CNN politics news page. Here it is again:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/09/politics/nikki-haley-resignation/index.html

CNN news pages are not behind a pay-wall - (I wouldn't visit or cite them if they were). I suggest you check your browser settings to make sure you haven't got a page-hijack exploit at work.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 18th, 2018, 11:50 am 

Albostani.jpg
Meshal Saad M. Albostani

Meshal Saad M. Albostani, one of the 15 suspects who were inside the Saudi consulate when missing journalist Jamaal Khashoggi entered, has now died in a suspicious traffic accident back in Saudi Arabia according to a report carried by the Turkish newspaper Yeni Safak earlier today.

https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/one-of-15-member-squad-that-targeted-khashoggi-dies-in-suspicious-car-accident-3463852

Albostani a lieutenant of the Saudi Royal Air Forces entered Turkey at 1:45 a.m. local time (2245GMT). He stayed at the Wyndham Grand Hotel and left the country at 9:46 p.m. local time (1846GMT) on a private jet which belonged to the Sky Prime Aviation company.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby bangstrom on October 19th, 2018, 11:19 am 

Just curious. Does the Saudi consulate in Turkey have a cafeteria?
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Braininvat on October 19th, 2018, 12:12 pm 

Sigh. Thanks so much, Bangstrom. As admin, you've now tasked me with the conundrum of whether I classify the post as black humor that relates to the topic, or as one that makes light of the horrific and brutal slaying of an American-employed journalist. Let me approach the dilemma this way, and see if you can arrive at a decision we are both happy with. My father was a journalist and involved at various junctures with exposing political corruption. Let's say he had suffered the same fate as Mr. Kashoggi. How would I, and the rest of his family and friends react to the suggestion that his dismemberment was followed by an institutional act of cannibalism?

More broadly, do the merits of such jokes depend on who is the victim? What about a child murdered that way? Still funny? It's a genuine question. I'm not sure where I land on this.
Last edited by Braininvat on October 19th, 2018, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby davidm on October 19th, 2018, 1:14 pm 

I would venture to say that it was not intended as a joke, even as black humor, but as a comment on the potential utter depravity of the people capable of such an act, people supported by the so-called president of the United States, who is a soulless orange-haired gangster in a cheap suit with the brain of a turnip and the morals of Hitler. I could be wrong about the motivation of the post, but not about the rest.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby wolfhnd on October 19th, 2018, 2:59 pm 

I can censor comments myself, what I'm interested in is the fact of the case at hand, it's pretty easy to ignore the rest. The news section should be about who, what, where, and when. The politics should be reserved for the political forum. That said I'm probably guilty of not staying on topic more than most people and feel it doesn't hurt to have a variety of views even the tangential.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Braininvat on October 19th, 2018, 3:42 pm 

The lounge is where loose talk goes. News allows discussions about news, but not soapboxing or links to propaganda sites or opinion pieces without supporting documents. Political Theory is for philosophical issues and is supposed to be where we do rigor and scholarship and cite "prior art. " And yes, there is lots of gray area in all this. And we need some levity, so there's always an inherent flex for that. Venting is mostly ignorable - I mean, I generally won't ask for a CT scan or MRI of the president's brain to back up comparisons to a turnip. OTOH, if someone makes a statement that is offered as factual, then that calls for evidence that is reliably sourced. E. g. if someone said, "the President has made 5000 false or misleading statements in 2 years, " then you have to link something like this.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... fa58419abf
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby wolfhnd on October 19th, 2018, 5:23 pm 

Thank you for your service, I certainly wouldn't want to do it BIV.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 19th, 2018, 9:33 pm 

A mere matter of 17 days after it happened, the Saudi government has given up trying to flatly deny the obvious, and they have now officially conceded that the missing WaPo journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45923217

According to the Saudi officials, Jamal Khashoggi died after he got into a ‘fight’ or a ‘quarrel’. (They seem to be unsure quite which term is appropriate).

Presumably we are now being asked to believe that a row broke out after the visitor was told that he had filled-out the consular forms in the wrong colour ink, and would have to go to the back of the queue, and that matters then escalated to the point where he picked a fight with 15 security guards was accidentally killed and dismembered with a letter-opener ?

Donald Trump says he finds the Saudi explanation ‘credible’.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Braininvat on October 20th, 2018, 12:48 pm 

Thanks for the kind words, Wolf.

When everyone's nibbling cheese squares off their scimitar, accidents can happen. Nor has anyone questioned the herd of goats roaming the corridors.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby wolfhnd on October 20th, 2018, 1:31 pm 

The thought that keeps going through my head is how many people are disappeared by Western Countries who are simply more competent. Then there is the question of does the method really matter. What about putting people in prison hoping they have an "accident". This if nothing else is a level of incompetence that is hard to digest. The evil genius Saudi is only in the movies I guess.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 21st, 2018, 9:48 pm 

Ever since Jamal Khashoggi vanished inside the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on 2nd October, one newspaper that has been consistently on point it terms of carrying accurate reporting about what the Turkish authorities know about the circumstances of his murder has been a national Turkish language paper called Yeni Şafak.

Throughout all the many prevarications, evasions and flagrant lies offered by the Saudi authorities, the Yeni Şafak coverage has been shown to be consistently veridical, and almost prescient at times, which makes their current lead story quite jaw-dropping:

https://www.yenisafak.com/gundem/selman-ile-konustusonra-olduruldu-3403508

That page is in Turkish, although it's not too difficult to run the article through Google Translate if you wish to check what it says for yourself. But if you are in a hurry, here is a quick translation of the salient paragraph:
According to the new information obtained by Yeni Şafak, once inside of the Consulate building Jamal Khashoggi was detained by the Saudi team. Then, Khashoggi was contacted by the Prince Muhammad bin Salman on the phone. Salman tried to convince Khashoggi to return to Riyadh on the phone. But Khashoggi refused Salman's proposal thinking that he would be arrested and killed if he returned to his country, and so he was killed by the assassination team right after the call ended.

If that report is correct, it means that Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman of Saudi Arabia spoke to Jamal Khashoggi in person by telephone just a minute or so before he was killed inside the consulate by the Prince's own thugs for refusing to accept the Prince's demand that he return 'voluntarily' to Saudi Arabia.

If the Turkish intelligence service intercepted that telephone conversation and possess a recording of it (and its hard to believe they do not) then there won't be a civilised person in the world who will have anything more to with MbS the Crown prince of Saudi Arabia, or any of his enablers.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Forest_Dump on October 22nd, 2018, 6:51 am 

[quote][/quote]Two disjointed aspects of this story keep coming to mind. First, when this story first started coming out, Trump's major response was pointing out the dollar value of deals with the Saudis. Now I am not so green that I didn't know money buys lives but I was surprised at how callous and open Trump was about being willing to overlook murder if enough money was on the table.

Second, I can’t help being surprised at the amount of Intel Turkey has from the inside of the Saudi consulate. Aside from the fact you would think some measure of privacy and diplomacy would be honoured, at least openly, by the Turks, I would have expected the Saudis to have invested more in measures to protect their secrets inside consulates. I think if I were the Saudis, there is a good chance one or two people responsible for security would be seriously sweating now.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby Braininvat on October 22nd, 2018, 9:49 am 

Lots of people are bailing on "Davos in the Desert" so that's some good news. Becoming a pariah in a global economy could have a sobering effect on the House of Saud.
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Re: Dissident Murdered By Saudis Inside Consulate?

Postby toucana on October 22nd, 2018, 11:01 am 



If it wasn't all so desperately tragic, this clip alone would make an unforgettable black humour espionage comedy.

One commentator said "You don't bring a bone saw to a fist fight". Well what about a carefully chosen body-double tasked with putting on the victim's clothing and walking out of the back exit to create an alternative narrative ?

It seems that the Saudis never dared to push this ploy once they realised just how thoroughly the Turkish security service had busted them. After years of suppressing their own citizens, the Turkish government have by now got the centre of Istanbul wired like a pin-ball machine with CCTV cameras and AI face-recognition software.

As the segment shows, they were able to track the doppelgänger leaving the embassy dressed as Khashoggi, then diving into a public toilet to change back into his own clothes, then disposing of the plastic bag of Khashoggi's clothing in a dumpster.
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