Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

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Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 12th, 2019, 6:50 pm 

https://www.infowars.com/u-s-cities-ove ... countries/

You are probably aware that there is a really serious Ebola outbreak right now in the Congo: but if your usual source for the news is only CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and other news sources in the Mainstream Media this may be the first that you have heard about this(I got this story from the Drudge Report today). I don’t know about you, but I find this story very concerning, and almost can’t believe this is being allowed to happen!

Have the same migrants from the Congo ever been tested for this terrible disease before they send/sent them to a number of different cities in the US? And how in the world are the same (probably extremely poor) migrants from the Congo making it all the way to the Mexico from Africa in the first place!?
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby PaulN on June 12th, 2019, 9:11 pm 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoWars

Request moderator on this, please.

Alex Jones record speaks for itself. Not a suitable link for a fact-based website.

Here is the straight story....

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fac ... san-anton/
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 12th, 2019, 9:40 pm 

PaulN » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:11 pm wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoWars

Request moderator on this, please.

Alex Jones record speaks for itself. Not a suitable link for a fact-based website.

Here is the straight story....

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fac ... san-anton/


Paul,

Who is this Politifact outfit that you are implying is such a very credible source here versus this Alex Jones fellow? I have never even heard of them. Yes, Jones comes up with some very biased and really goofy stuff at times, but CNN is even worse in my(and millions of others peoples) opinion, you probably consider them a very “credible” news source.

“After interviewing federal and local officials as well infectious disease experts Politifact found blah blah that they are not carrying Ebola”. So after talking to some anonymous unnamed government officials(maybe the mailman) we should all be convinced that none of these migrants are possibly I nfected with the Ebola virus? No mention of anyone actually being...tested... for the Ebola virus, just some anonymous government officials supposedly saying this is (definitely) not true. This is your “very credible proof or evidence” about this story that you are getting all excited about Paul?

I am certainly not convinced that this story is true myself like I alluded to in my post: but for you to get all excited and call in the mods because of Politifact’s really sorry excuse for “evidence” here(and your personal bad opinion of Alex Jones as a person and news source) seems to me to be a bit of an overreaction on your part, and overly dramatic.

What is actually important here, is whether or not this really scary story is actually true, regardless of who is making us aware of this.

(And by the way Paul: “Wikipedia” is not the most trustworthy or accurate source for news or information either)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 12th, 2019, 11:35 pm 

https://time.com/5602749/african-migrants-us-border/ Well, the “Time” website is saying Alex Jones was right all along that there are migrants and their families from the Congo arriving here in the US(and from other countries from Africa) Do you consider “Time” a reputable news source Paul?

I guess “Time” did not consider it “important” to report the fact that the migrants in particular from the Congo are arriving in our country from a country where the Ebola virus is being reported as being out of control today(!); https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... e-attacks/

(And now it has spread out of the Congo for the the first time to another country: https://www.vox.com/2019/6/12/18662755/ ... break-2019)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby Lozza on June 13th, 2019, 2:01 pm 

The Congo has been suffering the Ebola virus for some years now. What concerned me about 5 years ago when this issue was "topical", was the fact that the US was allowing their medical staff to return from the Congo without being quarantined either there or upon return to the US. So I've been waiting to hear of the Ebola virus taking hold in the USA. So is it any surprise to me that the US is allowing immigrants from the Congo into the country? Not at all.

http://www.bioethics.net/2015/01/ebola-yes-to-isolation-quarantine-and-travel-restrictions-part-i/
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 13th, 2019, 3:14 pm 

Lozza » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:01 pm wrote:The Congo has been suffering the Ebola virus for some years now. What concerned me about 5 years ago when this issue was "topical", was the fact that the US was allowing their medical staff to return from the Congo without being quarantined either there or upon return to the US. So I've been waiting to hear of the Ebola virus taking hold in the USA. So is it any surprise to me that the US is allowing immigrants from the Congo into the country? Not at all.

http://www.bioethics.net/2015/01/ebola-yes-to-isolation-quarantine-and-travel-restrictions-part-i/


Lozza,

And today: also no quarantines, blood tests, or skin tests for any of the migrants coming into our country today from the Congo(or at least to the best of my knowledge): and then being bused(and also being flown?) all around the country.

And nary a peep about this very scary story from the MSM? And I have to get my personal news about this story from a rather suspect and often times very extremist website like Alex Jones?

I don’t want to be overly dramatic here, but are we are going to start hearing about isolated cases of Ebola in different areas of the country pretty soon? Or maybe we will get really lucky and not even one of these migrants from the Congo is carrying the Ebola virus and there is nothing to worry about here?
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby Lozza on June 13th, 2019, 3:26 pm 

Well, in the case of the medical staff, doctors and nurses, they jetted directly to their home cities, which is why I was expecting to hear of an outbreak in the USA. And what kills me, is the fact that quarantining is the most fundamental form of infection control. Yet no-one in authority seems to give a rats ass about it. Maybe, like immunization, everybody has the right to be an idiot...at the end of the last millennia, we had basically eradicated Whooping Cough, Tuberculosis and a few other diseases. But since the advent of everyone's "right" to decline immunization, these things are rearing their ugly heads again.

My question is...is there method in this madness?
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 13th, 2019, 3:37 pm 

Lozza » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:26 pm wrote:Well, in the case of the medical staff, doctors and nurses, they jetted directly to their home cities, which is why I was expecting to hear of an outbreak in the USA. And what kills me, is the fact that quarantining is the most fundamental form of infection control. Yet no-one in authority seems to give a rats ass about it. Maybe, like immunization, everybody has the right to be an idiot...at the end of the last millennia, we had basically eradicated Whooping Cough, Tuberculosis and a few other diseases. But since the advent of everyone's "right" to decline immunization, these things are rearing their ugly heads again.

My question is...is there method in this madness?


Again, this whole thing sounds way too crazy to me be true(but it is true unfortunately). Or the madness of sending possibly Ebola infected migrants all around the country with no previous reliable testing for the Ebola virus for the same people.

If there is a method to this madness Lozza it is certainly way beyond me! :)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby Lozza on June 13th, 2019, 5:22 pm 

Ronjanec,

I find it impossible to comprehend that this absence of policy or action is caused by ignorance. So I'm left with basically 2 possibilities; I'm ignorant of something about the infectious nature of the Eboli virus, or there's something sinister afoot. I would sincerely prefer the first possibility being correct than the second. :)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 13th, 2019, 7:44 pm 

Lozza » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:22 pm wrote:Ronjanec,

I find it impossible to comprehend that this absence of policy or action is caused by ignorance. So I'm left with basically 2 possibilities; I'm ignorant of something about the infectious nature of the Eboli virus, or there's something sinister afoot. I would sincerely prefer the first possibility being correct than the second. :)


I think we should both just see how this all plays out Lozza to avoid wasting our time trying to make any sense out of such an absurd situation.

I just added InfoWars to the many news sites that I follow on a regular basis to see what else he comes up with about this story and others. https://www.infowars.com/category/featured-stories/

(In searching to find his website, I came across nothing but pure hatred towards him and his website from many of the usual suspects in the “fake news” MSM. I am starting to like this guy already). :)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby Forest_Dump on June 13th, 2019, 8:36 pm 

The ebola virus scare has been around since the 70s or 80s. Tow of Tom Clancy's novels had a plot theme revolving around ebola spread deliberately - one had it the product of Muslim extremists from Iran I think and the second had ebola weaponized by a big pharma company that wanted to reduce the world's population. But there have been other novels and mocies using it as a theme as well so it is hard to see this as anything new although the ebola virus does certainly appear to be becoming more robust and capable of spreading world wide. Personally I also predict there is a very good chance that this ebola outbreak or one coming soon will really cut loose and change the world.

Is this any excuse to get crazy about blocking migrants? Hardly, Most migrants have to go through so many stalls and checks that ebola would run its course before infected people were out in the general population. More likely is something like an infected person (doctor? missionary? busness person?) would go to another country from South Africa to Egypt, India or somewhere in Europe, spread the infection before becoming symptomatic and then it would simply spread around the world. Would paying closer attention to migrants or refugees make any difference? Virtually none. You want to prevent a disease like ebola from spreading you woud have to somehow isolate a big chunk of central Africa and nothing from the Great Wall of Chna to the Berlin Wall has ever worked that well. Better to find some way of better funding research on vacines and cures.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 13th, 2019, 9:27 pm 

Forest_Dump » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:36 pm wrote:The ebola virus scare has been around since the 70s or 80s. Tow of Tom Clancy's novels had a plot theme revolving around ebola spread deliberately - one had it the product of Muslim extremists from Iran I think and the second had ebola weaponized by a big pharma company that wanted to reduce the world's population. But there have been other novels and mocies using it as a theme as well so it is hard to see this as anything new although the ebola virus does certainly appear to be becoming more robust and capable of spreading world wide. Personally I also predict there is a very good chance that this ebola outbreak or one coming soon will really cut loose and change the world.

Is this any excuse to get crazy about blocking migrants? Hardly, Most migrants have to go through so many stalls and checks that ebola would run its course before infected people were out in the general population. More likely is something like an infected person (doctor? missionary? busness person?) would go to another country from South Africa to Egypt, India or somewhere in Europe, spread the infection before becoming symptomatic and then it would simply spread around the world. Would paying closer attention to migrants or refugees make any difference? Virtually none. You want to prevent a disease like ebola from spreading you woud have to somehow isolate a big chunk of central Africa and nothing from the Great Wall of Chna to the Berlin Wall has ever worked that well. Better to find some way of better funding research on vacines and cures.


I have also thought that this virus may someday really cut loose and change the world, and in particular if it became an airborne virus(!)

You may also be right on your related point Forest about the inevitability of this disease spreading around the world in the long run because of our very interconnected world, but I really see nothing wrong in testing the same Congolese migrants that we are talking about here before they spread out throughout the country and possibly cause a serious epidemic here.

I do have to say that I believe that you may be downplaying the threat from the same migrants: but again, let’s just see how this all plays out in the next few weeks, and hopefully it will just turn out to be another false alarm like the last one that actually did make it to the US.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby PaulN on June 14th, 2019, 1:08 am 

Alex Jones, the Austin-based provocateur embroiled in several lawsuits filed by parents of victims of the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, said in a deposition released Friday that his conspiracy thinking was a kind of mental disorder.

Jones, who repeatedly claimed on his internet and radio show InfoWars that the mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., was a hoax, told lawyers he “almost had like a form of psychosis back in the past where I basically thought everything was staged, even though I’m now learning a lot of times things aren’t staged.”


https://www.statesman.com/news/20190329 ... hoax-claim

This is a Texas news outlet that reports factual material on the Alex Jones case. Jones is on the record about his psychosis, and the Austin news stories are on matters of public record. I hope this is useful for those who wish to evaluate the journalistic integrity and professionalism of Infowars. I am interested in determining facts, not in directing "hate" at anyone. Questioning someone's professionalism is relevant and important to evaluation of a source, not an exercise in animosity. Calling a legitimate critic a "hater" is an ad hominem and not a meaningful argument.

I agree that physicians returning to the US, without proper quarantine procedures, is a concern. The doctor who had Ebola, at the U. of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, was a case where we find ourselves lucky that his contagion was contained.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby toucana on June 14th, 2019, 3:48 am 

In 2017 when he was engaged in a bizarre custody battle with his former wife, Alex Jones told the court through his lawyer Randall Wilhite that his publicly jacked-up, trumped-up, vitriolic rants are merely instances of “performance art.” 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/alex-jones_n_58f60e61e4b0da2ff8632204

Jones’ lawyer Randall Wilhite outlined the novel defense, telling those present at a recent pretrial hearing that Jones’ InfoWars persona does not reflect who he is as a person. “He’s playing a character,” Wilhite said. “He is a performance artist.”

Jones’ most famed “performances” to date include calling the 9/11 attacks an inside job, claiming the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School was “completely fake with actors,” and suggesting that the American government is “encouraging homosexuality with chemicals so that people don’t have children.” 

The beauty of this explanation of his behaviour was neatly summarised by veteran perfomance art pioneer Carolee Schneemann who when asked about Jones’s performance art defence responded:
“I think it’s all a load of crap.. Anything can be considered performance art, even if it is not part of some recognizable set of conventions,” she added. “One time I fell down and got a concussion at a museum in LA. Afterwards people said, ‘Way to go Carolee, great work.”

Another performance artist Kalup Linzy made this point:
“I am interested in what his audience thinks,” Linzy said. “Were they duped? Even with the cruelest intentions, what universal truths have or will be revealed about his audience? About him? If he isn’t crazy, then that means his audience is.”

Both of course, might be true.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 14th, 2019, 2:52 pm 

PaulN » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:08 pm wrote:
Alex Jones, the Austin-based provocateur embroiled in several lawsuits filed by parents of victims of the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, said in a deposition released Friday that his conspiracy thinking was a kind of mental disorder.

Jones, who repeatedly claimed on his internet and radio show InfoWars that the mass shooting in Newtown, Conn., was a hoax, told lawyers he “almost had like a form of psychosis back in the past where I basically thought everything was staged, even though I’m now learning a lot of times things aren’t staged.”


https://www.statesman.com/news/20190329 ... hoax-claim

This is a Texas news outlet that reports factual material on the Alex Jones case. Jones is on the record about his psychosis, and the Austin news stories are on matters of public record. I hope this is useful for those who wish to evaluate the journalistic integrity and professionalism of Infowars. I am interested in determining facts, not in directing "hate" at anyone. Questioning someone's professionalism is relevant and important to evaluation of a source, not an exercise in animosity. Calling a legitimate critic a "hater" is an ad hominem and not a meaningful argument.

I agree that physicians returning to the US, without proper quarantine procedures, is a concern. The doctor who had Ebola, at the U. of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, was a case where we find ourselves lucky that his contagion was contained.


Paul,

I briefly checked out this InfoWars website and found that this fellow “Alex Jones” is a complete heretic in regards to personally conforming to the the MSM’s holy grail of absolute and total obedience by everyone (in personal speech, writing and publications, art and music, personal activity, opinion, etc. etc.) to their ideology/dogma of “political correctness”(which by the way, would have been right at home 80 years ago in Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, and is the greatest enemy of “free speech” today in our country);

“Calling a legitimate “critic” a hater...”? My point in all of this being, that you want people like myself to trust any of their very biased judgement in evaluating different conservative, independent, and even very far right news sources and websites? Ok, I may not personally be the sharpest knife in the drawer Paul, but even I am not dumb enough to trust the same ideologues with any of the their criticism or personal evaluation of anyone else who does not share their same “politically correct” ideology/dogma.

(And Paul, I again personally checked out his story, and posted my findings about this in my post, and found what he said to be actually true, which you still seem to be not willing to admit, or even mention in your most recent post. Are you being fair to the man, despite your very low personal opinion of him?)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby PaulN on June 14th, 2019, 3:36 pm 

Mr. Janec,

What I don't see in your posts is any evidence that reputable news sources like the WSJ or the Post or Reuters are somehow, in their reporting, inaccurate. Or practicing political correctness (that would be in columns or editorials, wouldn't it??) in their news stories. Such sources have a firewall between owners and news division, and I see no evidence this is breached here. Indeed, the Austin papers coverage is easily fact checked, and verified by looking at reports from a wide variety of sources which all match and indicate Mr. Jones' penchant for untruths and hoaxes. From all indications, what Jones doesn't conform to are professional ethics and standards. That's not heresy, it's just unprofessional and an insult to the truth.

Also, if you feel American newspapers are akin to Nazi Germany's propaganda machine, then I would suspect you haven't much explored what Germany was like in that era. Or been close with survivors of that terrible time. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, and you have fact-based parallels between that era and ours.

Finally, implying that my challenge to your source is somehow a "dogma" is off the mark. I posted matters of public record, based on court documents (as did Toucan), which more than justify wariness regarding InfoWars veracity. I am following the forum guidelines here, in fairly challenging your source, and have produced facts to support my challenge. I have no personal feelings toward Mr. Jones, only a deep attachment to professional and ethical journalism.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby PaulN on June 14th, 2019, 3:53 pm 

This press release from Homeland Security would probably be a better source...

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-medi ... frica-rise

This could be a problem, though bear in mind that most people living in Congo are not exposed to Ebola, and the CBP reports...

"All immigrants arrested are medically evaluated and are referred to medical professionals for more advanced care if needed."

The persons most likely exposed to Ebola would be US medical personnel who were in clinics over there in Congo, treating....Ebola. I sensed little alarm over these returning doctors, from the alt-Right. Odd. Apparently the "migrants" part was what really gets them in a cold sweat. Yet the only actual instance of Ebola in the US was in native born doctors. Hmm. Quite the conundrum!
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 14th, 2019, 5:09 pm 

PaulN » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:36 pm wrote:Mr. Janec,

What I don't see in your posts is any evidence that reputable news sources like the WSJ or the Post or Reuters are somehow, in their reporting, inaccurate. Or practicing political correctness (that would be in columns or editorials, wouldn't it??) in their news stories. Such sources have a firewall between owners and news division, and I see no evidence this is breached here. Indeed, the Austin papers coverage is easily fact checked, and verified by looking at reports from a wide variety of sources which all match and indicate Mr. Jones' penchant for untruths and hoaxes. From all indications, what Jones doesn't conform to are professional ethics and standards. That's not heresy, it's just unprofessional and an insult to the truth.

Also, if you feel American newspapers are akin to Nazi Germany's propaganda machine, then I would suspect you haven't much explored what Germany was like in that era. Or been close with survivors of that terrible time. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, and you have fact-based parallels between that era and ours.

Finally, implying that my challenge to your source is somehow a "dogma" is off the mark. I posted matters of public record, based on court documents (as did Toucan), which more than justify wariness regarding InfoWars veracity. I am following the forum guidelines here, in fairly challenging your source, and have produced facts to support my challenge. I have no personal feelings toward Mr. Jones, only a deep attachment to professional and ethical journalism.


Paul,

I have already been down that road many times before here on the forum in regards to discussing my evidence for the MSM and their terrible bias in reporting and dogma(and their Gestapo/KGB like tactics and enforcement of the same “political correctness”), and I am not going to go into that very long and involved off topic story again in this thread(If you’re still interested in my personal evidence for this, just check out my many previous comments about this here on the forum. And by the way, I was not calling you personally a “hater” or “dogmatic”: I was again only talking about the MSM) ???

(So I guess you are still not willing to admit that his reporting at least on this story was correct right? Ok.)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 14th, 2019, 5:23 pm 

toucana » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:48 am wrote:In 2017 when he was engaged in a bizarre custody battle with his former wife, Alex Jones told the court through his lawyer Randall Wilhite that his publicly jacked-up, trumped-up, vitriolic rants are merely instances of “performance art.” 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/alex-jones_n_58f60e61e4b0da2ff8632204

Jones’ lawyer Randall Wilhite outlined the novel defense, telling those present at a recent pretrial hearing that Jones’ InfoWars persona does not reflect who he is as a person. “He’s playing a character,” Wilhite said. “He is a performance artist.”

Jones’ most famed “performances” to date include calling the 9/11 attacks an inside job, claiming the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School was “completely fake with actors,” and suggesting that the American government is “encouraging homosexuality with chemicals so that people don’t have children.” 

The beauty of this explanation of his behaviour was neatly summarised by veteran perfomance art pioneer Carolee Schneemann who when asked about Jones’s performance art defence responded:
“I think it’s all a load of crap.. Anything can be considered performance art, even if it is not part of some recognizable set of conventions,” she added. “One time I fell down and got a concussion at a museum in LA. ,Afterwards people said, ‘Way to go Carolee, great work.”

Another performance artist Kalup Linzy made this point:
“I am interested in what his audience thinks,” Linzy said. “Were they duped? Even with the cruelest intentions, what universal truths have or will be revealed about his audience? About him? If he isn’t crazy, then that means his audience is.”

Both of course, might be true.


Toucana,

The topic is about migrants who are possibly infected with the Ebola virus coming from the Congo, and then migrating into the US, and possibly spreading the disease all around the country here. Could you please try and stick to the topic instead of just criticizing Alex Jones?
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby toucana on June 14th, 2019, 6:05 pm 

Rojanec
The topic that caught my interest (in the very first line of your OP) was an attempt to pass off an internet shock-jock who routinely plays to an audience of neo-nazi gun-nuts, evangelical christian bible-humpers, and racist red-necks with room temperature IQs, as a reputable source of scientific news and information.

I’d love to have an intelligent discussion about epidemiology, migrants, haemorrhagic fever and Ebola virus in particular, but I’d also prefer to have it with someone who had the first conception of what they were talking about in the first place; and preferably within a universe of discourse that didn’t involve a self-confessed and certifiable lunatic like Alex Jones.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby doogles on June 14th, 2019, 6:17 pm 

Interesting subject. My experience with animals about to travel overseas, is that the required tests before animals go to other countries is that ALL of the tests have to be performed in the country they are exiting, according to the requirements of the countries they are entering, before they are even allowed to leave. These tests take time. Mostly this time delay is in excess of the incubation periods of most diseases. Rabies in dogs used to be a problem in this respect because the incubation period is up to six months.

I imagined therefore that some procedures would have to be undertaken before people leave countries infected by Ebola.

I found this article dated 14.6.2019 on Medscape here -- https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/836548.

It was under the name of a dozen or so authors with medical qualifications.

Essentially it states that since 2014, "In response to the largest recognized Ebola virus disease epidemic now occurring in West Africa, the governments of affected countries, CDC, the World Health Organization (WHO), and other international organizations have collaborated to implement strategies to control spread of the virus. One strategy recommended by WHO calls for countries with Ebola transmission to screen all persons exiting the country for "unexplained febrile illness consistent with potential Ebola infection." Exit screening at points of departure is intended to reduce the likelihood of international spread of the virus. To initiate this strategy, CDC, WHO, and other global partners were invited by the ministries of health of Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone to assist them in developing and implementing exit screening procedures. Since the program began in August 2014, an estimated 80,000 travelers, of whom approximately 12,000 were en route to the United States, have departed by air from the three countries with Ebola transmission. Procedures were implemented to deny boarding to ill travelers and persons who reported a high risk for exposure to Ebola; no international air traveler from these countries has been reported as symptomatic with Ebola during travel since these procedures were implemented."

There is a pay wall on the rest of the article.

I am not involved in this field, so I can't say whether the measures have been successful or not.

I submit it just as a I read it.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 14th, 2019, 6:45 pm 

doogles » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm wrote:Interesting subject. My experience with animals about to travel overseas, is that the required tests before animals go to other countries is that ALL of the tests have to be performed in the country they are exiting, according to the requirements of the countries they are entering, before they are even allowed to leave. These tests take time. Mostly this time delay is in excess of the incubation periods of most diseases. Rabies in dogs used to be a problem in this respect because the incubation period is up to six months.

I imagined therefore that some procedures would have to be undertaken before people leave countries infected by Ebola.

I found this article dated 14.6.2019 on Medscape here -- https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/836548.

It was under the name of a dozen or so authors with medical qualifications.

Essentially it states that since 2014, "In response to the largest recognized Ebola virus disease epidemic now occurring in West Africa, the governments of affected countries, CDC, the World Health Organization (WHO), and other international organizations have collaborated to implement strategies to control spread of the virus. One strategy recommended by WHO calls for countries with Ebola transmission to screen all persons exiting the country for "unexplained febrile illness consistent with potential Ebola infection." Exit screening at points of departure is intended to reduce the likelihood of international spread of the virus. To initiate this strategy, CDC, WHO, and other global partners were invited by the ministries of health of Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone to assist them in developing and implementing exit screening procedures. Since the program began in August 2014, an estimated 80,000 travelers, of whom approximately 12,000 were en route to the United States, have departed by air from the three countries with Ebola transmission. Procedures were implemented to deny boarding to ill travelers and persons who reported a high risk for exposure to Ebola; no international air traveler from these countries has been reported as symptomatic with Ebola during travel since these procedures were implemented."

There is a pay wall on the rest of the article.

I am not involved in this field, so I can't say whether the measures have been successful or not.

I submit it just as a I read it.


The problem here doogles(or at least in my opinion), is that no one (here) seems to know how in the world the migrants from the Congo got here in the first place from again such a very poor country?

So it is very difficult to talk about the details of this situation (and any kind of prevention methods against its spread) with any kind of knowledge or confidence here, like you just did in talking about our previous experience(s) with the prevention of this disease spreading anywhere else like in the 2014 outbreak.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby PaulN on June 14th, 2019, 9:08 pm 

As I pointed out, the only cases of Ebola surfacing in the States was in American doctors who had treated patients in Congo. So, again, why the focus on migrants and obsessing over how they got here? I'm guessing boats, but can't rule out blimps or rocket packs.

Nor do I quite comprehend the tenacious clinging to a source who most members here (and reasonable people everywhere) have identified as (to borrow Toucan's phraseology) a certifiable lunatic. The fact that, yes, he managed to poach some figures from a CBP press release, hardly validates his apparent alarmism over Congolese peasants.

I am familiar with your rant against the media, RJ. I have yet to see concrete evidence of conspiracies that would lead any reasonable person to turn away from professional journalism in favor of shock jocks who describe their own mindset as a series of psychotic breaks or "performance art."
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby Forest_Dump on June 14th, 2019, 10:34 pm 

I won't spend much time on Trump or Jones. Both are lunatics but as they say even stopped watches will be right twice a day. So, given how fast ebola typically goes to fatal, I am less concerned about immigrants and refugees because they are usually held up in lines and filling out forms for a relatively long period of time so are more likely to get sick before they get to walk freely through Times square. The bigger danger IMHO is the people who are "too important" to spend much time getting through airport security and immgration, etc., so are more likely to walk through a busy city a few hours after seeing the sights in a tropical jungle.

As for poor immigrants, most people in North America are descended from poor immigrants who couldn't hack it in the country they came from whether that be Scotland, Ireland, Latvia or Poland. When you get down to it, if the country wasn't a mess then or the immigrants weren't the dregs who couldn't fit in, they wouldn't have immigrated. Hard to condemn immigrants from the Congo for being like and doing the same thing as the passengers of the Mayflower,
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby doogles on June 16th, 2019, 1:54 am 

Forgive me Ronjanec if what I say does not fit the purport of your statement, but I'm not sure whether you mean that these people are too poor to utilise air travel or whether some may have avoided the pre-flight restrictions.

Regardless of this, I was somewhat stunned at the relatively low numbers of people leaving these countries. The report stated that "Since the program began in August 2014, an estimated 80,000 travelers, of whom approximately 12,000 were en route to the United States, have departed by air from the three countries with Ebola transmission."

As far as the USA goes, this amounts to 3000 people a year, which is a very manageable daily figure of less than 10.

Unless there is some alternative quick method of travel to the USA, or unless these figures are incorrect, or unless the people employed to do the checks are thoroughly lax or incompetent (I have to admit to seeing many such people in my working life), the people of the USA seem to me to be as safe as anybody on the planet SINCE 2014.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 16th, 2019, 11:01 am 

Doogles,

In my opinion, the issue here is not how many people came to the US from African countries in the past where there was the Ebola virus, and it did not become a problem/epidemic here in the US again in the past, but what is going on today, and how well are we testing the same people coming into our country for the same virus to prevent an outbreak today.

Every situation is of course different, and you should not and can not assume that the very same (positive) outcome in the past will also occur today, even from very similar situations.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby doogles on June 16th, 2019, 5:19 pm 

Good morning Ronjanec.

I may have missed your point, but please accept that I'm attempting to talk with you rather than against you. I pointed out that all of the checking is conducted in the country people are leavingbefore anybody ever boards a means of transport.

You asked the question " … how well are we testing the same people coming into our country for the same virus to prevent an outbreak today?". As far as I know, such tests are NOT done on arrival at destinations.

But if this was what you are advocating, then I think it may be a good idea in the case of a disease such as Ebola coming into an immuno-vulnerable country such as the USA. With less than 10 arrivals a day, a compulsory blood test wouldn't inconvenience too many people -- as a double, subsequently-traceable check.

The feet-on-the-ground next move of course is to convince the Health Departments who create the Regulations on immigration requirements, to include measures to that extent in those Regulations.
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby ronjanec on June 16th, 2019, 7:40 pm 

doogles » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:19 pm wrote:Good morning Ronjanec.

I may have missed your point, but please accept that I'm attempting to talk with you rather than against you. I pointed out that all of the checking is conducted in the country people are leavingbefore anybody ever boards a means of transport.

You asked the question " … how well are we testing the same people coming into our country for the same virus to prevent an outbreak today?". As far as I know, such tests are NOT done on arrival at destinations.

But if this was what you are advocating, then I think it may be a good idea in the case of a disease such as Ebola coming into an immuno-vulnerable country such as the USA. With less than 10 arrivals a day, a compulsory blood test wouldn't inconvenience too many people -- as a double, subsequently-traceable check.

The feet-on-the-ground next move of course is to convince the Health Departments who create the Regulations on immigration requirements, to include measures to that extent in those Regulations.


Good...what time is it there now Doogles? :)

Yes, I was hoping that we would also test the people coming here into our country above and beyond what was done to test them in their own country(if they were even tested at all)
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Re: Migrants arriving in the US with the Ebola virus?

Postby doogles on June 17th, 2019, 1:48 am 

7.00 AM on a beautiful winter morning. It had been 6 degrees C overnight, but on a nice partly sunny day, the temperature has gone up to 23 degrees C mid afternoon with no wind.
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