A brief history of science denialism

[TheVat]

https://thebulwark.com/the-pandemic-and ... e-problem/

[hyksos]

"A brief history of ..." Brief indeed. There are so many examples of this coming from Republicans that listing them all would be a task of curating a large ongoing archive. I think some have tried something like this. The group might be called https://www.rightwingwatch.org/

Now to my personal anecdotes.

1.
George W. Bush. I have a fuzzy memory of that president saying "They should teach both sides" regarding evolutionary biology in public schools. There are no sides. Creationism is not a scientific theory in any publication, science textbook, or online encyclopedia.

2.
George W Bush again. Standing in the Rose Garden made it illegal for geneticists to create human-animal hybrids. This was the politicization of stem cell research.

3.
A republican senator brought a snowball on senate floor. He held up the snowball to his colleagues to show them that global warming is fake.

4.
Mike Pence having a near meltdown about evolutionary theory in classrooms on the floor of the House (when he was a House Rep and R-IN. ). It's not his rantiness that is of note. Rather it is his utter scientific ignorance and lack of knowledge of the theory that is jaw-dropping in how delusional it is. The video is available online.

5.
Rush Limbaugh. Told his listeners that the coronavirus is quote, "the common cold, folks". It is rumored that Limbaugh has a devout audience that exceeds 3 million Americans.

6.
Trish Regan. A popular host on an evening show on Fox Business channel. She looked into her hi-def camera and told her viewers that the coronavirus is a media hoax meant to destroy the stock market with the aim of removing Trump from office.

Mere days later .. like 4 days later Mrs. Regan was no longer on-the-air. You might suppose that what I'm going to say next is that she was fired. Nope. Regan was no longer on TV because the studio in which her show is broadcast was shut down -- because of the virus.

7.
Bill O'Reily. "The earth has one moon. Where did it come from? Mars has two moons." This incoherent poetry was O'Reily's intellectual defense of Biblical creationism.

8.
Bill O'Reily. "Tides come in. Tides go out. You can't explain that." Later turned into a meme by internet users. What is perhaps more damaging is that he literally said this to Richard Dawkins on TV.



Donald Trump
This madman gets his own section. I don't even know where to begin.

Autism. From the article linked above by Vat

Just the other day . . . a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back, and a week later got a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic.

Prior to becoming president of the free world, then-candidate Donald Trump was already attacking global warming. Trump's claim is that global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese Communist Party. The only person who held him to account on this was Bernie Sanders.

In television interviews dismissed Global Warming as "temperatures go up and temperatures go down all the time, it's just what happens.". For anyone else this would be as damaging as Bill O'Reily's "Tides come in, tides come out. YOu can't explain that." But Trump is so often incoherent we no longer care or notice.

Described abortion as "children being torn from the womb" at a rally in Florida. This video is available online.

During a rambling monologue, Trump appeared to confuse coronavirus with antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

In early Aprils Trump press conferences were very uplifting in tone. "We are going to open the schools very very soon". "This will all be gone by June." (Et cetera). These conferences were so happy an optimistic, that Trump had me believing that the media was over-hyping the virus -- as media tends to do (they are a hype machine I wont deny). From listening to Trump's 2-hour rambles, I was convinced that the COVID-19 pandemic was little more than a very severe flu season, but that it had reached its peak in late March. We are past the peak. The hard part is behind us. Kids go back to school and we return to normal. Any human being with ears listening to these conferences would draw the same conclusion.


Then I consulted the data of "Deaths per day" in several states. That number was higher now than it was in late March. ALl the graphs were going up with no sign of subsiding or "flattening out". At that point it dawned on me that Trump simply opens his mouth in front of the mic and speaks lies.

[toucana]

The 1897 sitting of the Indiana General Assembly passed a bill #246 that is regarded as one of the most notorious attempts to establish a mathematical truth by legislative fiat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

The bill was written by a crank called Edward J. Goodwin who claimed to have found a way of ’squaring the circle’ using only a compass and straightedge constructions. Among other bizarre effects, this ’method’ produced a variety of finite but wholly erroneous values for Pi such as 3.2 and 3.

(Some supporters apparently argued that adopting such a new value for Pi would simplify engineering calculations, and the teaching of maths in schools.)

Goodwin and his supporters were entirely oblivious to the fact that ’squaring the circle’ is mathematically impossible - a fact suspected since antiquity, and only rigorously proven 15 years earlier in 1882 by a mathematician called Ferdinand von Lindemann.

Goodwin’s ridiculous Pi Bill actually passed in the General Assembly without a single dissenting vote. It was only challenged in the Senate after Professor C.A. Waldo of Purdue University who happened to be present intervened and briefed the Senators. The bill was then thrown out after one Senator belatedly stated the obvious; namely that the General Assembly lacked the authority to define mathematical truths.

[Serpent]

That would all be hysterically funny....
... except that it's being promulgated by the men who hold the fate the entire world hostage to their whims.
I find it painful, these days - literally, physically sickening - to watch decent, smart, competent people like Dr. Bright fighting a hopeless rearguard action against the hordes of self-aggrandized ignorance.

[edy420]

Girls can be boys and vice versa...

My daughter was kicked out of class, because she disagreed with her sex education teachers claim that gender can be chosen by each individual... I thought this stuff only happened in America, seems kinda silly here in NZ.

The education system is ignoring the science of genetics, and the psychological understanding on gender dysphoria, all for the sake of peoples feelings.

[Serpent]

My daughter was kicked out of class, because she disagreed with her sex education teachers claim that gender can be chosen by each individual...

I would like to see the video.
Are teachers in NZ really allowed to kick students? Or was the dissenting child asked to step outside until the end of class?
In what terms and in what way did she "disagree"?
Did the teacher make that "claim" on personal opinion, or did they have an explanation? Was there a context?
Was this science class or the life skills one, whatever they call it there?

The education system is ignoring the science of genetics, and the psychological understanding on gender dysphoria, all for the sake of peoples feelings.

Does the entire education system refuse to teach genetics? At what grade level would the psychology of gender dysphoria be appropriate to teach? Are people's feelings not part of psychology?

[edy420]

I was trying to investigate further, but my wife and daughter just want me to drop it. All I have is my daughters side.

It was a sex education class, and when on the topic of gender ideology, my daughter exclaimed that she disagrees. A boy is a boy and a girl is a girl, which lead to a bit of a heated discussion, and ultimately she was asked to leave for the remainder of the class.

She was singled out, left feeling embarrassed and distraught. I don't really care about any other details TBH. She should just accept this indoctrination so she can have a normal life... is the impression I'm getting. We don't need science to help us form our opinions.

[Serpent]

She was singled out,

When you exclaim disagreement with the teacher in a classroom, you are calling attention to yourself - not being "singled out".

left feeling embarrassed and distraught.

That happens to all children who cross the authority wherever they happen to be.

I don't really care about any other details TBH.

Details such as how you, with the strongly held credo that goes against the mainstream, set her up for the situation? Sometimes children get caught in the middle of ideological disputes they may not even understand or choose for themselves. It's largely up to the parents to decide whether to embroil their children in social conflict, or protect them from it. It's not up to the educators to make a separate course of studies for every faction and belief system.

She should just accept this indoctrination so she can have a normal life... is the impression I'm getting.

Or reject it privately, without disrupting the class for everyone else?

We don't need science to help us form our opinions.

Some of us do. Some of us rely quite heavily on science to deal with the world.

[edy420]

My understanding of education, is a place where students learn facts.

The idea that a boy can magically wake up as a girl one day, is a religious belief system, that conflicts with my beliefs. The difference is, I don't force my beliefs on other peoples children. And I find it ridiculous that we should allow others to force their beliefs on my children. Especially when it contradicts the science.

[Serpent]

My understanding of education, is a place where students learn facts.

Among other things. It's also for the socialization and acculturation of children: to prepare them for life, work and citizenship.

The idea that a boy can magically wake up as a girl one day,

Did anyone actually say "magically"?
In fact, there is nothing magical about gender reassignment: it's a long, hard medical slog and an even harder and often longer social adjustment that nobody undertakes for frivolous reasons.

is a religious belief system,

Then why did you call it science before? Why didn't you want your opinion influenced by science? Which are you rejecting - religion or science?

The difference is, I don't force my beliefs on other peoples children.

Just your own.
Odds are, the kid couldn't care less who identifies as a boy or girl and whether that agrees with which box somebody checked after a cursory glance at their pee-pee in the delivery room. Odds are, she's just fighting your battle, because children are staunchly loyal until they've lost enough such battles to retire from the field. What your battle is about - why it's so important to separate the girls from the boys - I don't know and your kid probably doesn't know.

And I find it ridiculous that we should allow others to force their beliefs on my children.

Then take them out of school. The teachers in the public school system will - and must! - teach whatever the the most recent consensus of educators put into the curriculum.

Especially when it contradicts the science.

Which science? Does what is taught in sex education contradict the science taught concurrently in biology? That would be confusing. But if the biology course deals with genetics and the sex education course with human sexuality, they do not contradict each other; they're presenting two different aspects of a large and complex subject.
You have a lot more freedom of choice than either your child or her teacher.

[edy420]

Did anyone actually say "magically"?

Ironically.. this morning I woke up a woman.

[TheVat]

Edy --- a post where you consider, and respond to, Serpent's points would be more useful.

I would post some links, from scientists, on gender dysphoria, but really I think everyone here knows how to use a search engine. GD does not involve, as you asserted, magically or suddenly waking up with the feeling your gender and physical anatomy don't match. As I said, Google is handy.

If anyone wants to seriously argue that neuroscience and psychology are a "religion, " please start a thread in Personal Theories.

[Serpent]

Did anyone actually say "magically"?

Ironically.. this morning I woke up a woman.

Congratulations! Need help with makeup and couture?

[edy420]

Hi Vat,

Psychologists and sex researchers like Debrah Soh, argue that gender is binary, and is not a social construct. She complains that clinicians are not able to do their job, when it comes to identifying gender.

This topic goes a step beyond denialism... it rewrites science, because scientists are afraid of losing their careers by speaking out. The term gender dysphoria was a scientific term, but it has been labelled as hate speech, and world health organisations are forced to change their terms and therefore understanding.

My point about waking up a woman, is that by removing scientific terms in favor of people feelings, now there is no science to deny my right to enter woman's changing rooms, even though I may be a bit of a pervert. I'm simply highlighting the fact that, there is no scientific argument that proves I'm not a woman, and therefore I should be privy to woman's rights. Otherwise your a bigot.

I think its absurd that I can go into a womans changing rooms. But if its ethical and acceptable, and science is denied in this area of society, then why not?

[Serpent]

Are you seriously worried that a man would upset his whole life, blow up his family, give up his identity, friends, reputation, position on the rugby team and place in society, and assume the subordinate, lower-paid, less respected, less empowered status of a woman, just to get a glimpse of mediocre female bodies in their underwear? Given what's available to look at free of charge? Given that being 'a bit of' or even a full-blown pervert doesn't mean a man is denied success, fame, fortune or the presidency of the United States?
Now, if a woman claimed to be a man just to get out of the secretarial pool and high heels, there might be some logic to that. Still don't see what harm it could do. .

[edy420]

If anyone wants to seriously argue that neuroscience and psychology are a "religion, " please start a thread in Personal Theories.

I missed this last time, but that's not what I meant. I mean that excluding all science, is a religion. The trans-gender movement excludes all science, although some will argue brain biology has some relevance. My argument was that the trans-movement is a religion, founded only on feelings, and deny's scientific understanding. I mean, only 0.6 of the population do not associate their gender with their sex. 99.3% is a large enough number to consider as empirical evidence, and a starting point for scientific exploration.

Serpent,

In my other thread, you touched on the freedoms of the transgender, and asked what harm is there in allowing them to choose. In that thread I mostly just want to explore my question, so Ill address that point here. You state..

Now, if a woman claimed to be a man just to get out of the secretarial pool and high heels, there might be some logic to that. Still don't see what harm it could do. .

Its harmful, when I become oppressed in my thoughts, and my freedom of speech is void.

Any one has the freedom to believe they are anything. They should not have the freedom to control my thoughts, speech and opinions... That's the Nazi agenda.

[Serpent]

[S -- Now, if a woman claimed to be a man just to get out of the secretarial pool and high heels, there might be some logic to that. Still don't see what harm it could do]

Its harmful, when I become oppressed in my thoughts, and my freedom of speech is void.

Some person you don't even know wearing sneakers and refusing to make coffee is in your head - how, exactly? She stops you speaking - how, exactly?
I note you didn't address the 'bit of a pervert' who might possibly change in the women's locker room.

Any one has the freedom to believe they are anything. They should not have the freedom to control my thoughts, speech and opinions... That's the Nazi agenda.

I was led to believe the Nazi agenda was to purge the fatherland of non-Aryans; make all the boys blonde and deadly; all the girls, blonde and fertile; both of them clean, enthusiastic and obedient.
I honestly don't see any resemblance of that to choosing what to wear, which box to check on census forms and whether to stand or sit when urinating.
How are they trying to control your thoughts?
How many transgendered people do you have to interact with in the course the average week? Have any of them forced you to say anything, do anything or think anything? What coercive measures did they use?
Conversely, what measures do you feel would be effective/appropriate to stop them doing whatever they have been doing to you?

[toucana]

US President Donald Trump has again defended the use of hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus, contradicting his own public health officials at a press conference today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53575964

He argued the malaria medication is only rejected as a Covid-19 treatment because he is the one who suggested it.

His remarks come a day after Twitter banned his eldest son for posting a clip in praise of hydroxychloroquine.

In the now-banned video, doctors were shown claiming that hydroxychloroquine is a "cure for Covid" and that "you don't need a mask" to slow the spread of the coronavirus. The clip has been was shared to Mr Trump's 84 million Twitter followers. and has been viewed more than 17 million times on Facebook.

Responding to questions from reporters, Mr Trump said he thought the group featured in the video were "very respected doctors”.

The president subsequently stormed out of the press conference when reporters queried the credentials of Houston doctor Stella Immanuel, the leading spokesperson for the “America’s Frontline Doctors” group who appear in the banned video.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/stella-immanuel-alien-dna-demon-donald-trump-jr-twitter-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquin-a9642826.html

Dr Immanuel has previously published videos claiming that medical conditions such as endometriosis, cysts and fibroids are caused by women having sex with evil male spirits in their sleep. She also apparently believes that alien DNA is being used by scientists in medical research, and that epidemiologists are trying to develop a vaccine that prevents people from ‘being religious’.

[toucana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrwOvap7uLo

But CNN's Kaitlan Collins doubled back on the topic of Immanuel, who also touted the zero-evidence claim that hydroxychloroquine is a “cure for Covid.”

"The woman that you said is ‘a great doctor’ in that video that you retweeted last night said that masks don’t work and there is a cure for COVID-19—both of which health experts say is not true," Collins said to Trump. "She’s also made videos saying that doctors make medicine using DNA from aliens and that they’re trying to create a vaccine to make you immune from becoming religious. So what’s the logic in retweeting that?"

Trump questioned whether it was same woman. “Well maybe it’s the same, maybe it’s not," he said, "but I can tell you this. She was on air, along with many other doctors, they were big fans of hydroxychloroquine. And I thought she was very impressive, in the sense that from where she came—I don’t know which country she comes from—but she said that she’s had tremendous success with hundreds of different patients and I thought her voice was an important voice, but I know nothing about her.”

But when reporters persisted in asking Trump about his push for mask wearing last week, he abruptly ended the briefing—as in, ran for cover.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/28/1964727/-Trump-s-new-tone-on-coronavirus-implodes-over-his-promotion-of-demon-sperm-doctor

[TheVat]

It's become clear that incubus and succubus votes are now vital to trump's reelection chances. It's important that Trump acknowledge their existence.

[toucana]

[charon]

:-)