The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Raw unfiltered musings. Critiques may not be for the faint of heart.

Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 25th, 2018, 6:17 pm 

Brent696 » October 25th, 2018, 2:51 pm wrote:
Your "different kind of science" seemed ambiguous, perhaps you did not mean it so as I might be suffering one of those communication tweaks, your comment (2000 BC) seemed to hinge on something, and I would assess a change in humankind a couple thousand years prior but I was also wondering at what you see as the catalyst for this turning point of yours. Interested in where you are coming from.


I believe that 40,000 years ago there was a mutation that allowed the speech center of the brain to be more closely connected with higher brain functions resulting in the ability to create complex language. It was complex language that started the human race through its ability to build on the work of previous generations. But this language was merely an elaboration on the simple animallanguage possessed by proto-humans. As such it was a metaphysical language based in logic and the estimation of reality. This language became overly complex and fewer and fewer people could use it until by about 2000 BC there were no longer enough Ancient Language speakers to operate the state and it had to be abandoned. The state and the ability to feed people were more imortant than science so it became the secondary language in an event "remembered" as the "Tower of Babel".

Babies "babel" because they are born with rudimentary Ancient Language skills and they are trying to communicate. This language must be unlearned in order to acquire modern language. This process gives rise to the "brocas area" of the brain which varies in location from one individual to the next because it's not "natural" to humans. It is the translator from the digital speech center to the now analog higher brain functions. At two years old children still grow brain cells to connect various parts of the brain but these now mostly will fall into disuse because we no longer use metaphysical language which has more dimensions than modern language.

This all is fundamental to the way we experience consciousness. Indeed, ancient people didn't experience it at all like we do. They lacked any words to denote cognition and had no words whatsoever to phrase or invent beliefs or superstitions. Indeed, for all practical purposes we can call those individuals without a brocas area Homo sapiens" while we are what I call "homo omnisciencis". We operate on belief but the entire rest of all consciousness operates on knowledge based in logic.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby Brent696 on October 26th, 2018, 1:04 am 

Clad,

Might I suggest some areas of research, years ago I dealt with some people who had developed a process called "Reverse Speech", the basics of which are that while the left brain speech center directs our speech from a more objective view, tending also to compartmentalize and objectify language, our right hemisphere still exercises its own emotional projections through a highly symbolic language.

The process: They make a tape (back in the time of cassettes) of you speaking about incidences or events that are important to you, kind of like therapy. Then later they analyze the tape playing it backwards at different speeds. In reverse many words and phrases seem to pop out. Such phrases are correlated with what we have spoken in the forward tape, and then one can see how they might compare.

For example, say you are speaking about a failure in your life and you say something like "I wanted that job a lot". In reverse the analyst might hear something like "I couldn't cum, wolf died"

Many times in these kind of interpretations we have to suspend cultural sensibilities because of the highly graphic symbolism, it is as if the emotions are speaking for themselves without cultural filter. Grafting this into computer code would seem to be a challenge as I would think the language you are referring to, as with infants, carried the full emotional charge, enough to say it is an emotional language.

This idea that when we are speaking to others, that perhaps our right hemisphere are speaking to each other also, can explain much. A good psychic, therapist, or doctor, can demonstrate a level of natural clairvoyance, they are simply attuned more to what you want to say than what you do say, and they reflect your emotional state rather than the idealized construct of the (rational mind?).

It could also be why internet communication breaks down, along of course with a lack of subtle body language. The overriding principle is that the emotions, ALWAYS seek manifestation, subtly at first, but if repressed or ignored so can they flair, passive aggressive, postal, etc...

I would continue to say that many of the ills of modern man is their tendency to THINK, they can disassociate from the whole selves. Say I have never killed a man, yet if I desired someones death, the REALITY of who I am is a murder. I might not like this thought about myself, and over the years I begin to mentally disassociate my inner reality from my outer reality, shifting the value to only that which is external, to pretend that the MASK is real, and not the "Id" within me. Right and left Hemispheres, as I spoke above might be an over simplification before I might hear critiques from others, but the division between emotion and intellect, Id and Ego, remains.

A good person, manifesting Balance in his or her life, would also possess a good balance within themselves, accepting and harmonizing or integrating their own emotions with their outward expressions. But I will say some Ids are much harder to accept than others, people who have not worked hard to mature emotionally even if they are intellectually proficient, will still project the childishness of their Id in one way or another as they are un-accepting of others, critical, argumentative, etc....

Secondly, I believe their are tribes in like south america and such who still use a very basic language, in north america perhaps the Hopis, and perhaps these might form a template for coding of sorts. The Hopi language if I remember correctly, has no sense of time, this would be very close to an infants perspective as they, like emotions, are always in the "now". Ultimately to create a code, it would seem you would have to create an emotional charting or sorts.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 26th, 2018, 10:15 am 

Ultimately to create a code, it would seem you would have to create an emotional charting or sorts.


Interesting concept and one I've neglected to think through.

The entire brain is digital and this includes the amygdala which is the primary source of emotions. Animal science anthropomorphizes reality so they did say things like the sky loves the human leader more than did the normal force. I've always taken such declarations to apply to human interpretation of reality rather than to reality itself.

The brain is almost infinitely adaptable and this applies especially to children under 2 1/2, but anything can come to be seen as normal to people. If one models Freud's components of the mind then for every practical purpose these become "real" and this can be used to understand the self and even to gain insights into the behavior of others.

But language is the operating system of the brain. Even in species with the simplest language it still is the formatting for consciousness and understanding reality. And this operating system was at one time universally digital (at least on earth) just as all brains were digital. As a species progresses its language must become more complex to embrace the new behavior. At one time bees didn't know how to perform or interpret the waggle dance but still the point at which proto-bees became bees is a semantical question and it's a semantical question for which we have almost no data at all.

But proto-humans became human ~40,000 years ago and "homo omnisciencis" ~2000 BC. These changes are evidenced through logic and within the anthropological record. It was the change to analog language which is represented in the Bible story of the "tower of babel". It is analog language which erased the first 1200 years of written history between 3200 BC when writing was invented and 2000 BC when Ancient Language failed and ancient science was lost.

I have great doubt that a summation of our relationships with others (emotions) would be incorporated into animal languages however it should be noted they had numerous words for emotions but no words for cognition. They had no words to describe the process of building, examining, or relating mental models!

I have previously toyed with the idea of using "emotions" to build AI but abandoned it long ago. Maybe something of the sort can be eventually added to machine intelligence after the fact.

Perhaps there's a chip that can make "Data" a real boy, but I wager he'll have to invent it "himself" because human "intelligence" will have long since become obsolete.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby Brent696 on October 26th, 2018, 12:02 pm 

cladking » October 26th, 2018, 10:15 am

The entire brain is digital and this includes the amygdala which is the primary source of emotions. Animal science anthropomorphizes reality so they did say things like the sky loves the human leader more than did the normal force. I've always taken such declarations to apply to human interpretation of reality rather than to reality itself.


"Primary source of emotions" or the software through which emotions manifest, the brain is still one of those sciences where some think we understand it a lot more than we actually do. With memory we see a device to encode it and another to retrieve it but the memory itself seems more like a 3 dimensional geometric shape infused into the whole structure of the brain. And also the distortions of the Homunculus model.

The computer seems to already mirror the binary, artificial intelligence seems more a trick of attuning the receptors like the senses into a binary structure, this might be akin to recognition.
(To digress, the symbolism I stated as ""I couldn't cum, wolf died" would translate "unsatisfying, impotent" as the feelings were expressed. Thought I would throw back to that as I find few who seem capable of symbolic translation. It demands an eye for reading context and our compartmentalized languaged brains seem to have lost the art of this, even as we see some things passing for ART which are more likely shock monstrosities.)

But language is the operating system of the brain. Even in species with the simplest language it still is the formatting for consciousness and understanding reality. And this operating system was at one time universally digital (at least on earth) just as all brains were digital. As a species progresses its language must become more complex to embrace the new behavior. At one time bees didn't know how to perform or interpret the waggle dance but still the point at which proto-bees became bees is a semantical question and it's a semantical question for which we have almost no data at all.

But proto-humans became human ~40,000 years ago and "homo omnisciencis" ~2000 BC. These changes are evidenced through logic and within the anthropological record. It was the change to analog language which is represented in the Bible story of the "tower of babel". It is analog language which erased the first 1200 years of written history between 3200 BC when writing was invented and 2000 BC when Ancient Language failed and ancient science was lost.


Well not to get too far off of consciousness as we delve into artificial intelligence and the brain, seems like another thread, but my loose thought about this change would be a departure from a shared experience form of communication (possibly more emotionally based), to a Conceptual or ideological form of thinking. In a sense, living through our heads as opposed to our experiential whole beings.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby Braininvat on October 26th, 2018, 12:29 pm 

The entire brain is digital and this includes the amygdala which is the primary source of emotions.


Assertions of this sort are one problem I'm seeing with this thread. It's unsupported, and it is incorrect, as any neuroscientist will tell you. The brain uses a mix of analog and digital functions.

I'm seeing a lot of statements like this one, and some members seem to be just passively absorbing them and moving on with the assumption that they are correct. That really runs counters to the basic mission of SPCF.

The brain is neither analog nor digital, but works using a signal processing paradigm that has some properties in common with both.

Unlike a digital computer, the brain does not use binary logic or binary addressable memory, and it does not perform binary arithmetic. Information in the brain is represented in terms of statistical approximations and estimations rather than exact values. The brain is also non-deterministic and cannot replay instruction sequences with error-free precision. So in all these ways, the brain is definitely not "digital."


-- Paul King, neuroscientist, writing in Forbes.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby Braininvat on October 26th, 2018, 12:38 pm 

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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 26th, 2018, 1:45 pm 

Braininvat » October 26th, 2018, 11:29 am wrote:
The entire brain is digital and this includes the amygdala which is the primary source of emotions.


Assertions of this sort are one problem I'm seeing with this thread. It's unsupported, and it is incorrect, as any neuroscientist will tell you. The brain uses a mix of analog and digital functions.


The statement was taken out of context. Before proceeding it should be noted that such statements are made to try to lead the reader to what I'm thinking. They are merely assertions to show how I got to where I am. Any objections to any assertion will be addressed with the logic and facts that support my argument. This is almost all uncharted territory as nobody knows the nature, cause, or meaning of consciousness. I'm merely trying to show my thinking on how best to interpret the scant available evidence. assertions aren't being made to claim true knowledge but merely a perspective to see reason and facts.

The brain is digital. But my contention is that since confused language arose at the "tower of babel" is that there is an analog "programming" that governs higher brain functions. We think in language and modern languages are not digital, they are analog so it appears higher brain functions are analog. In a sense they truly are analog since we build analog models of reality to understand experiment and to think.

Because of this our consciousness is very different from the consciousness of those who thought in digital metaphysical language like all other life forms. Animals and ancient man experience(d) reality directly and there was no thought in between stimuli and responses. We compare virtually all stimuli to our models which are composed of what we believe whether we believe in "gravity" or "ghosts".

From our perspective we can't see that it is language which created all progress and it is consciousness that confers the ability to survive. We can't even see that "intelligence" is an event. We believe "I think therefore I am" has meaning rather than that it is an expression an ability to use language but has no meaning.

I'm trying to point at a different way to see all of reality. We can't use this perspective with a digital language because we'd have to leave virtually all our knowledge behind. But we can model this to get peeks at the way animals and ancients saw their world. And in doing so we can gain some insights into the nature of consciousness.

Unless people recognize the role and nature of lanbguage any study (scientific or otherwise) into the human brain and consciousness is probably doomed to failure. If I'm correct about Ancient Language then this becomes even more true.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 26th, 2018, 2:02 pm 


"Primary source of emotions" or the software through which emotions manifest, the brain is still one of those sciences where some think we understand it a lot more than we actually do. With memory we see a device to encode it and another to retrieve it but the memory itself seems more like a 3 dimensional geometric shape infused into the whole structure of the brain. And also the distortions of the Homunculus model.


I'm sure you're right that the brain is very highly complex. We might never have a good understanding of it.

I believe the entire organism is involved in everything. This means the entire body plays a role in every thought and every event as a mass attracts every object in the universe. But just as the hand is the primary agent of "grasping" the amygdala is the primary agent of "emotions".
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 26th, 2018, 2:07 pm 

Braininvat » October 26th, 2018, 11:38 am wrote:https://news.yale.edu/2006/04/12/brain-communicates-analog-and-digital-modes-simultaneously


Due to its length and thinness, the nerve axon has been believed to be impassable to the smaller analog voltage deflections that gave rise to action potential. As this action potential reaches the synaptic terminals of the axon, it causes the release of a transmitter onto the next neurons in the chain. So, although signals in the cell body are represented in an analog fashion, they were thought to be transmitted between cells solely through the rate and timing of the action potentials that propagated down the axon, that is, in a digital fashion.


McCormick’s group demonstrated that the analog signal present in the cell body also propagates down the axon and influences synaptic transmission onto other neurons. As the voltage on the sending cell becomes more positive, the amplitude of the subsequent transmission to the receiving cell, mediated by an action potential, is enhanced. This means that the waveform generated in the receiving neuron is not just determined by the digital pattern of action potentials generated, but also by the analog waveform occurring in the sending neuron.


I was not aware of this and will modify my argument accordingly.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 28th, 2018, 11:40 am 

Brent696 » October 26th, 2018, 12:04 am wrote:
Secondly, I believe their are tribes in like south america and such who still use a very basic language, in north america perhaps the Hopis, and perhaps these might form a template for coding of sorts. The Hopi language if I remember correctly, has no sense of time, this would be very close to an infants perspective as they, like emotions, are always in the "now". Ultimately to create a code, it would seem you would have to create an emotional charting or sorts.


There are some languages that appear to have a few commonalities with Ancient Language. These include Basque, Hawaiian, and Gaelic. These are modern languages however and are not metaphysical.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby davidm on October 28th, 2018, 12:17 pm 

cladking » October 25th, 2018, 4:17 pm wrote:
Brent696 » October 25th, 2018, 2:51 pm wrote:
Your "different kind of science" seemed ambiguous, perhaps you did not mean it so as I might be suffering one of those communication tweaks, your comment (2000 BC) seemed to hinge on something, and I would assess a change in humankind a couple thousand years prior but I was also wondering at what you see as the catalyst for this turning point of yours. Interested in where you are coming from.


I believe that 40,000 years ago there was a mutation that allowed the speech center of the brain to be more closely connected with higher brain functions resulting in the ability to create complex language. It was complex language that started the human race through its ability to build on the work of previous generations. But this language was merely an elaboration on the simple animallanguage possessed by proto-humans. As such it was a metaphysical language based in logic and the estimation of reality. This language became overly complex and fewer and fewer people could use it until by about 2000 BC there were no longer enough Ancient Language speakers to operate the state and it had to be abandoned. The state and the ability to feed people were more imortant than science so it became the secondary language in an event "remembered" as the "Tower of Babel".

Babies "babel" because they are born with rudimentary Ancient Language skills and they are trying to communicate. This language must be unlearned in order to acquire modern language. This process gives rise to the "brocas area" of the brain which varies in location from one individual to the next because it's not "natural" to humans. It is the translator from the digital speech center to the now analog higher brain functions. At two years old children still grow brain cells to connect various parts of the brain but these now mostly will fall into disuse because we no longer use metaphysical language which has more dimensions than modern language.

This all is fundamental to the way we experience consciousness. Indeed, ancient people didn't experience it at all like we do. They lacked any words to denote cognition and had no words whatsoever to phrase or invent beliefs or superstitions. Indeed, for all practical purposes we can call those individuals without a brocas area Homo sapiens" while we are what I call "homo omnisciencis". We operate on belief but the entire rest of all consciousness operates on knowledge based in logic.


1. Do you have any evidence to support any of the above claims?

2. Whether or not you have such evidence, all the above beliefs, by your own metric, are superstitions, right?
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 28th, 2018, 1:26 pm 

davidm » October 28th, 2018, 11:17 am wrote:
cladking » October 25th, 2018, 4:17 pm wrote:
Brent696 » October 25th, 2018, 2:51 pm wrote:
Your "different kind of science" seemed ambiguous, perhaps you did not mean it so as I might be suffering one of those communication tweaks, your comment (2000 BC) seemed to hinge on something, and I would assess a change in humankind a couple thousand years prior but I was also wondering at what you see as the catalyst for this turning point of yours. Interested in where you are coming from.


I believe that 40,000 years ago there was a mutation that allowed the speech center of the brain to be more closely connected with higher brain functions resulting in the ability to create complex language. It was complex language that started the human race through its ability to build on the work of previous generations. But this language was merely an elaboration on the simple animallanguage possessed by proto-humans. As such it was a metaphysical language based in logic and the estimation of reality. This language became overly complex and fewer and fewer people could use it until by about 2000 BC there were no longer enough Ancient Language speakers to operate the state and it had to be abandoned. The state and the ability to feed people were more imortant than science so it became the secondary language in an event "remembered" as the "Tower of Babel".

Babies "babel" because they are born with rudimentary Ancient Language skills and they are trying to communicate. This language must be unlearned in order to acquire modern language. This process gives rise to the "brocas area" of the brain which varies in location from one individual to the next because it's not "natural" to humans. It is the translator from the digital speech center to the now analog higher brain functions. At two years old children still grow brain cells to connect various parts of the brain but these now mostly will fall into disuse because we no longer use metaphysical language which has more dimensions than modern language.

This all is fundamental to the way we experience consciousness. Indeed, ancient people didn't experience it at all like we do. They lacked any words to denote cognition and had no words whatsoever to phrase or invent beliefs or superstitions. Indeed, for all practical purposes we can call those individuals without a brocas area Homo sapiens" while we are what I call "homo omnisciencis". We operate on belief but the entire rest of all consciousness operates on knowledge based in logic.


1. Do you have any evidence to support any of the above claims?

2. Whether or not you have such evidence, all the above beliefs, by your own metric, are superstitions, right?


I keep presenting the evidence and it keeps getting ignored like I never said it at all. It is extremely difficult for people to see what is outside of their expectations and many of the expectations are fundamental to their existence and consciousness. We perceive ourselves very differently than we are because language imposes an order on the brain: it is programming that is not natural to the consciousness "experienced" by ancient people and other life forms. We see what we expect whether it's gravity or magic that causes things to fall. Since we always see what we expect it follows we are intelligent and knowledgeable.

My theory is consistent with experiment but it is not consistent with beliefs. It is consistent with the physical evidence all around us. But, again, people need to realize this is mostly just a different perspective of reality. Our perspective isn't really "wrong" because it is composed chiefly of experiment and logic, but it is limiting as it gives one view of something that can be seen from many other angles as well.

Perhaps the most irrefutable proof is the simple fact that Ancient Language lacked words of superstition. This is thousands of words missing but then it also lacked words of cognition which is thousands more. Then there's the fact that even taxonomic words are largely missing! We hold most of our knowledge in taxonomies. Are we to believe ancient people lacked knowledge!? If all this weren't proof enough the ancient language as it is currently interpreted breaks Zipfs's and Heap's Laws.

The only simple explanation is in my opinion that we wholly misinterpret ancient writing. It was a distinct language that was metaphysical and natural to humans. Modern language arose from it but the only commonality is vocabulary. We are translating the words "correctly" but the meaning is lost in formatting. The world is not what it seems.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 28th, 2018, 1:49 pm 

davidm » October 28th, 2018, 11:17 am wrote:
cladking » October 25th, 2018, 4:17 pm wrote:
1. Do you have any evidence to support any of the above claims?

2. Whether or not you have such evidence, all the above beliefs, by your own metric, are superstitions, right?


There are plenty of other known facts as well that support this theory preferentially to modern beliefs.

There's the simple fact that writing arose ~3200 BC but history doesn't start until 2000 BC.

Of course the Bible and Sumerian legend carries no weight at all with scientists but the fact remains that both support a single language devolving into thousands of modern languages in an event. This would certainly explain why there are no books from before this event. They weren't translatable so they were never recopied.

Anthropologists say that "human behavior" arose suddenly sometime between 40,000 and 80,000 years ago. This would be consistent with my contention that humans arose suddenly and the most logical explanation with available data is that "human behavior" is the result of the ability to pass down knowledge through complex language. Logically this implies a mutation and probably one that tied the speech center to higher brain functions. I'd remind you that the new speech center has a variable location within the brain so is most probably not a part of the "kit" that gave rise to our species. It's just this simple. Babies do babel and language is parsed and confused. You can pretend otherwise but the reality is messages are changed in the retelling. People can converse on two different subjects. Nobody knows how gravity works but they hardly notice. It's simply obvious even to a mystic that things fall.

Rather than asking me for proof why not seek something that argues against my theory? Rather than citing beliefs of science or philosophy, cite experiment, known facts, and logic. I believe all the evidence is on my side and until such time as anyone can say why ancient writing breaks Zipf's Law and is inconsistent with modern belief the best bet is that we are still speaking the confused languages that arose at the "tower of babel".
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby cladking on October 28th, 2018, 2:01 pm 

2. Whether or not you have such evidence, all the above beliefs, by your own metric, are superstitions, right?


Yes and no.

I don't hold them as beliefs so much as probabilities.

I really don't think like most people and have never been one prone to "beliefs" per se. I was the kid out looking for reindeer tracks on the roof Christmas morning. I do model reality quite similarly to the way every other modern language speaker does but I'm a nexialist and try not to have "beliefs".

I think the reason I was the one to rediscover this is that I use the same axioms as ancient science; reality exists and cause precedes effect which are each unique. This means my modelling is similar to the way ancients thought and has some correspondence to Ancient Language. Add in the fact I was in the right place at the right time and it was fait accompli.
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Re: The Evolution of Human Consciousness

Postby Braininvat on October 28th, 2018, 3:28 pm 

Clad, this thread doesn't meet our forum guidelines.

Not one shred of peer-reviewed literature has been cited, not one credentialed linguist cited on this ancient language you keep referring to.

Your assertions about neuroanatomy are also unsupported.

In all new theories, the burden of empirical evidence is on the person advancing the theory.

We do not allow members to dismiss requests for evidence with vague injunctions to go find it themselves.

You should find another website, perhaps. But not before acquiring some familiarity with peer reviewed research in anthropology, linguistics, and cognitive sciences. And grasp on how these fields do not deal in "superstition."

Per our forum guidelines, you cannot reopen this topic in another thread. Thanks for your interest in SPCF.
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