The Science and Philosophy Forum

In an hour-long phone call on Saturday, Donald Trump demanded that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger commit multiple crimes in order to overturn the results of the state's presidential election. It is the latest and most shocking yet of Trump's efforts to retain power regardless of which laws must be broken, and it is all on tape.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/3/2005607/-Trump-caught-on-tape-threatening-Raffensperger-demanded-state-find-votes-to-overturn-Biden-win

The Washington Post obtained the recording of Trump's call to Raffensberger, and reports that Trump "alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims."

Trump urged Raffensperger to announce that he had "recalculated" the election results. There is little way to interpret the conversation other than a request by Trump for the state's election office to commit an unambiguous act of fraud.

"So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state," Trump said. At another point, he said that it would be a "criminal offense" if Raffensperger and his office did not back up Trump's false claims of ballot destruction, and a "big risk to you and [state legal counsel Ryan Germany]."

Though Trump's conversation would appear to constitute a criminal act, lawyer Cleta Mitchell and chief of staff Mark Meadows were also on the line; neither voiced objections to Trump’s demands.

Asking that an election be fraudulently overturned is unquestionably a violation of Trump's oath of office and an impeachable act. Trump and his top advisers have crossed every line: endorsing fraud, encouraging sedition, and demanding the toppling of government.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer seized on the call in a tweet Sunday afternoon, suggesting to Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas that he and his GOP allies should investigate the President for his actions.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/donald-trump-brad-raffensperger-call-washington-post/index.html

Cruz was among 11 Republican senators who announced Saturday they would support an objection to the Electoral College votes, if one is brought, and propose an election commission to conduct an "emergency 10-day audit" of the election returns in the "disputed states" -- despite no credible evidence suggesting widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election.

"You want to investigate election fraud? Start with this," Schumer, a New York Democrat, wrote in a tweet aimed at Cruz that included a link to the Washington Post's report.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

In an hour-long phone call on Saturday, Donald Trump demanded that Georgia Secretary of State...

I know, I read it.

NBC have posted an audio recording of the entire one hour conversation online:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA

Here is the relevant Federal criminal statute covering these offences:
52 U.S. Code § 20511
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/20511

And here is the Georgia State law covering the same offences:
2019 Georgia Code
Title 21- Elections
Chapter 2 - Elections and primaries generally
Article 15 - Miscellaneous Offences
§21-2-604. Criminal solicitation to commit election fraud; penalties
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2016/title-21/chapter-2/article-15/section-21-2-604

The Federal statute specifies up to 5 years in prison, and the state law specifies a prison term of up to 3 years for the same offences.

I've heard that criminal intent is very hard to prove. With this guy, it's impossible to tell which crazy things he believes and which crazy things he says for effect. It could be argued that he was merely exhorting the responsible person to find the [legitimate] votes he had mislaid or hidden or stolen. Just like it could be argued that he was only asking Zelensky to release the [factual] evidence against on any Bidens he may have been protecting. It wouldn't be true, but the arguments could and would and will be put forth with vigour.

TheVat » January 4th, 2021, 11:02 am wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/danielsgoldman?ref_url=https%3a%2f%2fnews.yahoo.com%2ftrumps-lessthanperfect-call-to-georgia-officials-could-also-be-a-crime-221455096.html

Is he allowed to have five wives?

So, the President placed a call to Georgia and asked "I need a favor though..."...lol.

I hope they nail all those Senate republicans that acquitted Trump during his impeachment and supported Texas in its lawsuit against the election. Why do we keep electing criminals?

Why has the Right become so violent? It's the Radical Right Violence that everyone is afraid of and not just Trump. Twitter better ban Trump after Biden takes office. And I hope the FBI is on the job locating and prosecuting all those nuts issuing death threats to the people of our Government.

Let's see what happens on the Jan 6th (election confirmation) and Jan 20th (inauguration day).

Pence is the smart one, leaving the country so as not to be held responsible for all the chaos and crimes of this administration. (He is probably not coming back to America)

I expect Trump and his family will also try to escape American Justice before the crap hits the fan.

Be safe and be good.
Dave :^)

Serpent, I scratched my head over your quip, until I looked at Goldman's twitter again and read, "Current: proud husband and father of 5." Hahaha. Guess a comma, after husband, would help?

Not sure any extortion charge will stick to Teflon Don, but at least I can see the parallel Goldman's making to a Mafia boss, how the context and power implicit behind his office would make "costly in many ways" somewhat intimidating. Not that Raffensberger sounded all that intimidated.

Most of the tirade, if you listen to the tape, is pretty meandering and senseless, but the implied thread portion is fairly chilling when it comes from a POTUS who likes to get "his" DOJ to conduct politically motivated attacks on people.

Here is the full uncut transcript. It's an interesting window into the whole mindset we've been dealing with in the States the past few years...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics ... index.html

Dave, yes, Trump loves to incite violence among his far right fans - his comment to the Proud Boys in one of the debates was typical. I think a Twitter ban could happen, but I'm cynical enough about Twitter's business model (all those millions of Trump fans who subscribe to the platform) to think that it could take something pretty extreme from Trump to get that to happen, i.e. openly advocating sedition. We already know he has a real talent for "dogwhistles" and veiled calls for violence. Platforms like Twitter, sadly, seem to feed off tweets that have shock value and the country's addiction to such tweets.

Oh, the madness grows more obvious all the time. He's visibly splitting at all the seams and fraying at all the edges. But he's no more capable of acknowledging defeat than he has ever been to admit any of his failures - every bankrupt project, every bogus enterprise, every missed payroll and broken contract was something else, or somebody else's fault... and he had to "get even" for each humiliation.
That's what I'm worried about. As soon as he runs out of gambits to try, he'll do something much worse than setting free the felons.
OTOH, I assume the security agencies are keenly aware of his proclivities, have the measure of his resources and are prepared for his probable moves.

Tell ya what, I have a lot of respect for Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger. I'd heard his statements weeks ago on the election and he courageously stood his ground and told the truth. Now this! A politician with that much integrity seems to be a rarity these days, especially on the Republican side.

Yes. ^^ A good prospect for the renaissance of the Republican party.