About todays updates

[vivian maxine]

ESET told me Windows had updates ready. I went to look. It first had a window to install Windows 10. I skipped that and went to 'show all updates". It showed 10 "important" updates. I selected all except 3035583 - 9 "important" updates. Lo and behold, the message at the bottom said I'd selected 9 important and 1 optional. It had never shown any optional ones.

I backed out and checked ESET's list. It had the same 10 important ones but only 4 optional ones and one of those four was "upgrade to Windows 10".
I quit. There may be something I missed but wanted to say what may be going on there. I am off for the morning and shall call the computer guru later. My next trip may be to the Apple store.

[ronjanec]

Vivian,

I like my Apple computer(iPad Air) way more than than my old Toshiba laptop: They also send you the new updates on a very regular basis(usually one at all time), and it only takes a few minutes to get you right up to date again(also way less worries about viruses). But on the other hand, Apple products are expensive.

[Natural ChemE]

vivian maxine,

Upgrading to Windows 10 is pretty much necessary. Windows 8 was just too flawed and no one wants to keep using it now that there's Windows 10. And since programmers don't want to deal with Windows 8 anymore, there's a logistical problem in finding programmers willing to write new Windows 8 updates.

Apple's an option, but that's like moving to North Korea to avoid a new reduction in civil liberties here in the US. Sure you're technically avoiding this specific problem, but the place that you're moving to is much darker overall.

[ronjanec]

vivian maxine,

Upgrading to Windows 10 is pretty much necessary. Windows 8 was just too flawed and no one wants to keep using it now that there's Windows 10. And since programmers don't want to deal with Windows 8 anymore, there's a logistical problem in finding programmers willing to write new Windows updates.

'course Apple's an option, but that's like moving to North Korea to avoid a new reduction in civil liberties here in the US. Sure you're technically avoiding this specific problem, but the place that you're moving to is much darker.

"is much darker"? Why so NCE?

[vivian maxine]

Vivian,

I like my Apple computer(iPad Air) way more than than my old Toshiba laptop: They also send you the new updates on a very regular basis(usually one at all time), and it only takes a few minutes to get you right up to date again(also way less worries about viruses). But on the other hand, Apple products are expensive.

Old saying with pound of proof: You get what you paid for.

[vivian maxine]

vivian maxine,

Upgrading to Windows 10 is pretty much necessary. Windows 8 was just too flawed and no one wants to keep using it now that there's Windows 10. And since programmers don't want to deal with Windows 8 anymore, there's a logistical problem in finding programmers willing to write new Windows updates.

'course Apple's an option, but that's like moving to North Korea to avoid a new reduction in civil liberties here in the US. Sure you're technically avoiding this specific problem, but the place that you're moving to is much darker.

"is much darker"? Why so NCE?

I do not have Windows 8 or 8.1. I have Windows 7 and it is fine - or has been until MS started putting Windows 10 programs on it. I get their message loud and clear and I do not care for it. I've always been advised to wait about six months while people work out the little bugs and I've found that good advice. A good example is Windows 8.

I want to wait a while. That's my choice and my right. I do not appreciate MS trying to force me to take something before I want it. That is not good business practice. You can lose a lot of customers by forcing them to take what you want to sell instead of selling them what they want to buy.

[Paralith]

Unfortunately, viv, I think most of Microsoft's clients, and in fact most computer users today, have become accustomed to regular updates and allowing most of them to go on unchecked. And when it comes to the latest and greatest OS, I think most people are excited to jump on board. And I have heard most people who upgrade greatly enjoy Windows 10, bugs and all.

The Apple ecosystem is much more restrictive and limiting on what you can do with their products. But, with such a tight grip of control, they can and do ensure high quality in what they make. If you want something that just works 99% of the time, go with Apple. If you want greater freedom and control in what you do, get a PC. I tell people the same thing about Apple vs Android phones.

[vivian maxine]

Paralith, I suspect that most people know - or can figure out - what to do if some little thing goes wrong. I fear I do not have that talent. Just like this morning. You probably had no trouble at all finding those options. I've not found them yet. You probably would have figured out fast what option MS was saying you selected when you knew you'd selected none. I cannot and I'm not going further until I find out. Computer gurus cost money. They earn it but it's expensive to me. When it comes to computers, I'll take Einstein. Him I half understand.

So, yes, I want a computer that works 99% of the time even if it limits me. I don't do that much with computers anyway. Most people can get quite creative with them. I wouldn't dare try.

Sorry about that.

[Natural ChemE]

"is much darker"? Why so NCE?

Pretty much like Paralith just said, Apple keeps tight control over their ecosystem. They're so restrictive that new iPhones will report an error if the wire that you use to charge them doesn't contain a certification chip.

Apple products can be appropriate and advisable for many folks. Just, Apple isn't the place to go if you're specifically looking for freedom.

[Paralith]

There's no need to apologize, vivian. It sounds to me like you would really enjoy an Apple computer, because they do simplify a lot of the controls by simply taking the control into their own hands. So they are more expensive devices, but it's sort of like you have a built-in computer guru handling most of the small decisions for you. Depending on what you usually use your computer for, you may even be just fine with an iPad with a stand and a keyboard. (When I travel I much prefer to just bring a tablet and a small bluetooth keyboard. Much lighter than even a laptop.)

[Natural ChemE]

So, yes, I want a computer that works 99% of the time even if it limits me.

That's exactly what the Windows 10 upgrade wants to give you.

I'd echo Paralith's comment that there's nothing for you to apologize about. I mean, yes, it's jarring that Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 so hard; it doesn't feel right to lots and lots of folks. They have a good reason - and that's largely giving you the works-99%-of-the-time thing that you want - but you're still entirely justified in feeling weird about their sudden shift in policy.

Microsoft's seen that people overall want their computers to be more Apple-like with respect to the quality of "just working", so they're trying to move in that direction. From here on out, Windows users will have less freedom but enjoy more ease. Microsoft isn't going as extreme as Apple already has, but they're reducing that gap.

[vivian maxine]

That little "Get Windows 10" nagger doesn't bother me at all any more. I'd like to get rid of it but I've come to enjoy closing it every morning. And twice a day if I have to shut down mid-day. And now, if you do get rid of it they are putting it back in with KB3035583. At first they had that in "optional". Now it is "important".

And that gets to my issue with them. What I am protesting is them putting stuff on my computer without my say-so. And what it looks like - putting Windows 10 programs on Windows 7 because I will not take Windows 10. That's exactly what it looks like. If I won't come to the mountain, they'd bring the mountain to me and drop it on my head.

[Natural ChemE]

vivian maxine,

I'd suppose that the business folks at Microsoft are just desperate to get you to move. They're pretty much obligated to provide you with Windows 7 upgrades for the term of Windows 7's support life, but they're going to be hard-pressed to find talented programmers who want to invest their lives and careers in an antique system.

Personally, if I were a Microsoft employee who had to continue working on Windows 7, I'd quit. Sure it'd be a short-term loss, but that'd be better than having my career ruined. Programmers need to keep their skills current or become irrelevant.

Microsoft's changed their policies to avoid ever getting stuck in this position again. Once you do move to Windows 10, you pretty much waive your right to pick-and-choose updates; all updates are cumulative.

[ronjanec]

After reading everyone's very helpful comments(thanks everyone), it definitely sounds like a "computer expert" like myself has gone with the right computer! And like Paralith said, I also really like how lightweight the tablets are in comparison to my much heavier older laptop(I also really like the "instant on" "instant off" feature)

[ronjanec]

Vivian,

I like my Apple computer(iPad Air) way more than than my old Toshiba laptop: They also send you the new updates on a very regular basis(usually one at all time), and it only takes a few minutes to get you right up to date again(also way less worries about viruses). But on the other hand, Apple products are expensive.

Old saying with pound of proof: You get what you paid for.

From your comments, I have a feeling that you would really love an iPad Vivian, just like Paralith said.

[Natural ChemE]

vivian maxine,

A lot of websites claim that you can turn the nag screen off by simply uninstalling the patch that it came in. Here's a potential fix.

[vivian maxine]

vivian maxine,

A lot of websites claim that you can turn the nag screen off by simply uninstalling the patch that it came in. Here's a potential fix.

Thank you. Does that mean it will not keep offering it in the monthly updates? Yesterday, it was listed in the "important" items. I did not select it and I did not get a notification this morning. That means nothing, though, as I've not been getting notifications daily. We shall see if they return.

The motto: Stay Alert.

[Natural ChemE]

vivian maxine,

You can generally right-click a patch to "hide" it, which is basically your way to say that you don't want it and for Windows Update to stop showing it until further notice. To provide that further notice, you can pick the "Show hidden updates" link, or something like that. I haven't used Windows 7 in quite a while.

Unfortunately this approach won't work in future operating systems. Pretty much everyone's going to an all-updates-are-cumulative model, i.e. you can either full update or don't update at all. I suspect that Windows 7 will continue to let you pick-and-choose to some degree for a while yet.

Just to mention it, if you got an Apple OS instead of Windows 7, you'd have fewer options than you do now. Apple's policy is pretty much, "Upgrade or don't, but we're not supporting your old operating systems." Microsoft will continue supporting Windows 7 'til 2020, but Apple stopped supporting their counterpart (OS X Snow Leopard) about two years ago.

[vivian maxine]

I know. It's the devil if you do and the devil if you don't. I truly fear waking up some morning and finding Windows 10 with a welcoming notice. No "do you want it or don't you?" Just "here it is whether or not".

Maybe some here will remember this. Some years ago, Microsoft - via Windows - upgraded something on everybody's computer without a word of warning or choice. There was such an uproar that MS promised to always ask in the future. They also gave us the ability to backtrack to what we'd had before if we wanted. I am wondering if that promise is still good today.

[tantric]

I'm browsing this from Ubuntu MATE 15.10 - while Windows 7 is running in VirtualBox, which i free, of course. After I installed it, I just had to give it the Product Key from the back of my computer and boom, Bob's your uncle, I have Win7. I bought this computer used, 2.2Ghz, 3 of RAM, and I can do this while watching a video. Or editing a PowerPoint thingie under OpenOffice that I'll export as a PDF. Or both. I have a shared Win7/Ubuntu folder, and I can turn on drag and drop if I like. After this, I'm moving to bed, but leaving the computer here - I'll run it remote with NoMachine on a netbook. All free. Ubuntu NEVER does anything without asking me very politely first.

[moranity]

i use ubuntu too, and windows 7 when i must.
after all this time windows 7 is now just about usable/reliable

[tantric]

i use ubuntu too, and windows 7 when i must.
after all this time windows 7 is now just about usable/reliable

How do you windoze? I messed with wine for years, kept up the dual boot nonsense, but I'm telling you, VirtualBox is a dream. It doesn't run any slower than a real boot in of Windows

note: VirtualBox is a program from Oracle that lets you install one or more operating systems inside your regular one.

[moranity]

Hi Tantric,
i dual boot, always have done, i am forced to have windows for certain games that only just run on windows with my budget and would never run on linux, this situation is changing thanks to steam's(valve's pc gaming platform/shopping center) per-chant for linux. Also, the fact that the "humble indie bundle" (pay what ya want for 7 or more of the best indie games of the previous year) games are all windows and linux running means that there's more and more good games out there for linux... also, civ 5, lots of the total wars run on linux under steam. I hate to say it about any commercial thing but steam is great, fast servers too.
But, ubuntu drives me nuts, they have this windows disease of constant innovation, windows 3.1 did all that was needed for an operating system. Why get rid of menus? menus make sense, ya can give instructions easily over the phone with em. and what is this about only showing controls/menus when ya hover the mouse over that area, or only when they can apply. insane it all is. Bring back File, Edit .... etc
i have recently put windows 2000 on a virtualbox virtual machine for a customer, all very impressive.

[tantric]

I deal with the change problem in two ways - first being sticking to a desktop system, NOT Unity of KDE. I like MATE, because I can make it look like Win2000. It does pretty much stay the same. Then again, I love change, highly adaptable person. I'm learning Kali - specifically exploits and all that, how to do bad things. Survival skill, really.