DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Discussions on topics related to biochemistry and molecular biology, functional genomics, etc.

DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 3rd, 2015, 5:25 am 

Chill, it's still impossible. I remember hearing in a lecture circa 95 the details of how DNA is organized in fertilized fish eggs and thinking - you can just inject the DNA? No vector no problem? Why don't I have glow in the dark goldfish? Well, it took another decade, but it did happen. In addition to glofish, there are now pink angelfish (angelfish are cichlids, a clade of relatively intelligent fish given to paternal care, much better than danios). I read that it takes 10,000 tries to get a correct insertion, in the angelfish case, but that's also doable....


Thoughts?
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 7:04 am 

What is the question? When will we have kits to do this at home? Hopefully never!

The reason you don't already have those isn't necessarily technical. And I doubt it ever was/will be.

It's a regulatory issue. And a huge liability risk for any business model willing to take this to market. That said, DIY GMO isn't likely to ever become public. At least not legally.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 7:23 am 

By the way, when they say "one in 10000" tries is successful, that doesn't mean someone needs to sit there and do the experiment 10,000 times to get one success. It means that if you do the experiment, where you start with some DNA and cells mixed together, about 1 out of every 10000 cells will take up the DNA, AND the DNA will recombine with the cell's genome, AND the cell will be a viable transgenic, AND that cell will successfully develop into a transgenic animal.

Lots of positive and negative selection is used at the first steps to quickly find those cells that have become stable transgenics and can be incubated to form transgenic organisms.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 3rd, 2015, 7:52 am 

If I really, REALLY wanted a purple goldfish, could I do it at home? See, I breed fish, the mind wanders...

As for the regulatory issues, well, in the 90's I set up a complete MDMA lab, the fume hood was kitshy, given, but I had fractional distillation, vacuum pumps, all that jazz. No one was paying attention. (I gave it away til I got busted, then got off on an invalid search warrant - karma). Now there's Alibaba...you can get anything.

Seriously, would it be possible to do garage transgenics?
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 8:17 am 

No. It would be illegal and a hazard, and you could be endangering yourself on top of the environment. This is not like synthesizing a chemical which will eventually just be metabolized or degraded. This can be a lot more harmful and with much longer lasting consequences.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 3rd, 2015, 11:58 am 

How so? I don't think aquarium fish are particularly dangerous - humanity is the invasive species you need to worry about.

Image

The above monstrosity was produced by selective breedings, no, miscegenation. Crossing species from different continents, so that now it's anyone's guess what it's parentage is. It's also worth about $50,000. But it's not going to invade Tokyo anytime soon.

Seriously, what harm, what consequences? (assuming garage microinjection technique)
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby vivian maxine on November 3rd, 2015, 12:19 pm 

There is an aquarium fish that is quite dangerous. Its name will not come to me but someone will know it. We are warned not to keep it in a bowl with other fish as it will eat them all. I suppose the only reason it can be called an aquarium fish is that people do keep it in home aquariums. Match it up with people who like to have lions, tigers and crocodiles as pets.
vivian maxine
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: 01 Aug 2014


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 12:58 pm 

tantric » 03 Nov 2015 10:58 am wrote:How so? I don't think aquarium fish are particularly dangerous - humanity is the invasive species you need to worry about.

Image

The above monstrosity was produced by selective breedings, no, miscegenation. Crossing species from different continents, so that now it's anyone's guess what it's parentage is. It's also worth about $50,000. But it's not going to invade Tokyo anytime soon.

Seriously, what harm, what consequences? (assuming garage microinjection technique)


Yes we've been selectively breeding for thousands of years, and yes probably most of those exercises have yielded little positive benefit to anything other than ourselves (even if such benefits are no more than aesthetic pleasure).

However, the rules of genetic engineering with recombinant DNA are fundamentally different from the rules of selective breeding. In selective breeding, your scope is limited by what can arise in your starter stock, and what you can propagate, provided all intermediates are viable and sufficiently healthy and sustainable to the point where they can procreate and establish a viable population. Finally, changes from selective breeding are incremental and most of the time reversible. I remember seeing a paper that compared the genetic print of domesticated and wild animals, and found that the domestication print tends to be quickly reverted in wild contexts - a lot of it being actually epigenetic in nature. I'll need to look up that ref, but that might be a side point for now.

In genetic engineering, those rules are nonexistent. Your scope is almost unlimited, and unrestricted by "fitness" of intermediates. You can edit the code directly, and the majority of your outcomes won't be what you are actually trying to create. That's why genetic engineering is highly regulated.

So if your question is whether it can be at all be done in the physical location of your garage, then the answer is yes (actually, it's more like d'uh). You can buy all the necessary equipment and hire a couple of trained scientists to do it. You can even try to do it yourself, but your chances for success would be slim to none with no training (even trained scientists fail most of the time). Also, your chances of creating potentially harmful outcomes and failing to contain them would be high, unless you set up proper containment, risk assessment, and quality control units. Thought at that point, you just finished setting up a biotech lab, and might as well get your protocols reviewed by experts and acquire the necessary approvals so you don't end up in jail.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby TheVat on November 3rd, 2015, 1:06 pm 

Vivian - piranhas?
User avatar
TheVat
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 6894
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Black Hills


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 1:15 pm 

tantric I really am not just trying to piss on your parade or be unnecessarily difficult. I'm not trying to make a purely ethical or philosophical argument either. It's just a mistake to compare transgenics to selective breeding, and a bigger mistake to treat it as such. The two are quantifiably different (in everything from tractability, to risk, to range).
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby vivian maxine on November 3rd, 2015, 2:00 pm 



Thank you. Yes, piranhas. Beautiful creatures but so deadly.
vivian maxine
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: 01 Aug 2014


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 2:05 pm 

vivian maxine » 03 Nov 2015 01:00 pm wrote:


Thank you. Yes, piranhas. Beautiful creatures but so deadly.


I've always wanted a tank with 6 piranhas! I still do, actually.

Though the other day I saw a talk at nerdnite about exotic pets that freaked me the hell out. Don't known if I'll be getting any. Not an industry I want to encourage.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)
Paralith liked this post


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 3rd, 2015, 2:27 pm 

Also, your chances of creating potentially harmful outcomes and failing to contain them would be high, unless you set up proper containment, risk assessment, and quality control units.


The above is what I don't see. Contain what? Flying piranhas? Harmful outcomes? Worse that what happens to every other fish at PetButt? This is a very standardized procedure - its decades old. You are aware of

Image

which are old hat now. The problem is that the science isn't being done by people who love fish. That's why you get danios - utterly bland fish. The Taiwanese pink angel fish - that was done by a fish person. It's happening - and corporate culture is doing it wrong. Admittedly, it's better than actually injecting fish with dye (common practice). These are taisho sanke pattern koi

Image

now see them with the chimeric expression of dsRED or KFP.

(FYI - I have 1/2 a phd in ecology/epidemiology and did lots of grunt work in the level 1 lab)
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby vivian maxine on November 3rd, 2015, 2:28 pm 

BioWizard » November 3rd, 2015, 1:05 pm wrote:
vivian maxine » 03 Nov 2015 01:00 pm wrote:


Thank you. Yes, piranhas. Beautiful creatures but so deadly.


I've always wanted a tank with 6 piranhas! I still do, actually.

Though the other day I saw a talk at nerdnite about exotic pets that freaked me the hell out. Don't known if I'll be getting any. Not an industry I want to encourage.


Sort of reminds you of the female spider who eats her mate?
vivian maxine
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: 01 Aug 2014


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 2:59 pm 

tantric you are aware that creating a trasgenic animal involves taking recombinant DNA from an exogenous source and integrating it stably into the genome of the recipient animal. What could go wrong? You could integrate it in a place that messes up the organims' ability to initiate a particular genetic program. You can interfere with promoters, coding/non-coding gene loci, or any number of things. And every time you are introducing a different gene, you have no idea what the long term effects are going to be, even if you succeed at integrating the gene in a location where it can get expressed without messing with any other functions. I'm not only talking about the potential impact on the environment. I'm also talking about messing up the genomic makeup of organisms in unpredictable ways, and then having insufficient infrastructure to assess the long term impact. Saying "hey, petX does worse than that" and "people abuse pets all the time" aren't an acceptable excuse to allow genetic engineering to become a public sport. Not to mention that the abuse of animals ends with the life of the animals. The potential hazards you may create by making it easy (translation: putting it in the hands of the public) for transgenics to escape into the environment (starting with the effects on the parent specie itself) are on a totally different scale.

Trantric wrote:(FYI - I have 1/2 a phd in ecology/epidemiology and did lots of grunt work in the level 1 lab)


Ok. But how does that help the DIY at home transgenics proposal? If anything, it sounds like you may be better off finishing the other half, getting the required training, and then doing things in an appropriate and responsible context.

In any case, do as you please. You asked for thoughts and I gave you mine. If you're still convinced that letting people perform transgenics at home is OK, then what I think doesn't matter and anything I say hereafter will likely not change anything. If you were just looking for people to agree with you, tough luck.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby vivian maxine on November 3rd, 2015, 3:38 pm 

Then there is the fact that when people get tired of their latest hobby, they take the creature to the nearest river or woods and dump it. Wasn't there a case of a crocodile in Lake Michigan near Chicago? That is mild compared to what altered DNA can do in a river.
vivian maxine
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: 01 Aug 2014


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 3:54 pm 

vivian maxine » 03 Nov 2015 02:38 pm wrote:Then there is the fact that when people get tired of their latest hobby, they take the creature to the nearest river or woods and dump it. Wasn't there a case of a crocodile in Lake Michigan near Chicago? That is mild compared to what altered DNA can do in a river.


Indeed. That's what:

BioWizard wrote:the potential hazards you may create by making it easy (translation: putting it in the hands of the public) for transgenics to escape into the environment


was about. Scientists doing transgenics follow very strict protocols for keeping those animals. Protocols that just can't be enforced at the level of individual hobbyists.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby Paralith on November 3rd, 2015, 3:55 pm 

Yes. You can get a crocodile in Lake Michigan (who would likely die as soon as winter hits), and you can get massive populations of Asian and African pythons exploding in the Everglades and tearing up the native ecosystem. In Florida they have exotic pet amnesty days, where you can drop off your illegal exotic pet, that has inevitably grown too large and/or aggressive for you to deal with, without facing any criminal charges whatsoever, so that you're not tempted to just let it loose in the wetlands.
User avatar
Paralith
Resident Expert
 
Posts: 3160
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Blog: View Blog (2)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 4:21 pm 

Paralith » 03 Nov 2015 02:55 pm wrote:Yes. You can get a crocodile in Lake Michigan (who would likely die as soon as winter hits), and you can get massive populations of Asian and African pythons exploding in the Everglades and tearing up the native ecosystem. In Florida they have exotic pet amnesty days, where you can drop off your illegal exotic pet, that has inevitably grown too large and/or aggressive for you to deal with, without facing any criminal charges whatsoever, so that you're not tempted to just let it loose in the wetlands.


Paralith, how do you know that :]

p.s. The guy whose talk I attended was actually a member of the task force that put together the strategic action framework, including the mentioned amnesty program.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 3rd, 2015, 5:08 pm 

I'm not going to DO this - sweet lord buddha no! I just think it's doable. And yes, I know that the insertion is random - microinjection is always a crap shoot, lab or garage. Lots of nonviables. Do you really think that glofish were made any other way? As for " having insufficient infrastructure to assess the long term impact" you know perfectly well that such doesn't exist anywhere. There are no models for that!

I'm not proposing that genetic engineering become public sport, I'm suggest it becomes art. That it be included in the traditions such as bonsai and koi breeding. Right now, it's sport - glofish are sport. I was recently asked to make a glofish aquarium for a toddler - who will grow up thinking they are normal. Frankly,GMO fish is going to happen in the Far East fish breeding industry, which is HUGE.

Really, i'm not so much concerned right now about morality as doability. Consider it hypothetical. You seem to be offended - chill, please, this is just noodling.
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 5:36 pm 

tantric » 03 Nov 2015 04:08 pm wrote:I'm not going to DO this - sweet lord buddha no! I just think it's doable. And yes, I know that the insertion is random - microinjection is always a crap shoot, lab or garage. Lots of nonviables. Do you really think that glofish were made any other way? As for " having insufficient infrastructure to assess the long term impact" you know perfectly well that such doesn't exist anywhere. There are no models for that!

I'm not proposing that genetic engineering become public sport, I'm suggest it becomes art. That it be included in the traditions such as bonsai and koi breeding. Right now, it's sport - glofish are sport. I was recently asked to make a glofish aquarium for a toddler - who will grow up thinking they are normal. Frankly,GMO fish is going to happen in the Far East fish breeding industry, which is HUGE.

Really, i'm not so much concerned right now about morality as doability. Consider it hypothetical. You seem to be offended - chill, please, this is just noodling.


Why/how would I be offended?

Concerned though? Yes for sure. And not about you specifically, mind you. But about the kind of reckless and selfish mentality that is focused on getting exactly what one wants when they want it, and then when they are done with it, down the toilet it's flushed and the world can eat it. It's a slippery slope and I just can't advocate it. (p.s. I'm not saying you are those things - I'm saying these things exist and create a real danger for such a practice)

I am a big proponent of genetic engineering, especially for therapeutic purposes. However, for genetic engineering research to remain viable, it has to maintain a minimum level of trust by the public. If we're doing things responsibly, and trying our best to contain our experiments until such time that they may be deemed relatively safe for use and/or release into the biome, then the chances of losing public support for genetic engineering research is minimally maintained. And we're teetering as it is (you're aware of the anti-GMO movement, yes?). If anything, people are always calling for more regulation. It gets to the point where doing routine research becomes difficult.

I mean, more and more people refuse to vaccinate their own children today cause of all sorts of unfounded claims. Can you imagine the backlash if an environmental disaster happens because somebody's flushed transgenic animal devastated an ecology and killed off a food source? Who do you think will be blamed if this happens? The hobbyist? Or the "irresponsible scientists" who created this technology and put it in the hands of the public? I'm not saying that this will definitely happen, but that the chances of it happening are very real. Add to that the data we already have on how (ir)responsible exotic pet owners can be with their pets, and the kind of devastation that can happen when their pets are let loose. I'm just not seeing the silver lining in this thing.

If designer pets are to become a reality, they should not be brought around by hobbyists. They should be created by appropriately equipped and regulated entities. If you are interested in the practice and want to engage in it as a hobby, all power to you. Volunteer in at a lab and make sure you're working under appropriate conditions and regulations. Creating new organisms from scratch should not be carried out by non-experts who cannot begin to assess the immediate biological and downstream ecological effects.

Once again, my position isn't about morality or ethics. It's about risk/benefit. In other words, you're concerned with whether or not you can get to create your designer pet at home. I'm concerned about the very real impact that could have on both scientific research and the environment. And for what? Just so that people can play Lego with biology? Are we already so nonchalant about it that we're just going to call it "art"?
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 5:41 pm 

As for the question of "is it doable at all?", I already said that yes, it is. It's a technique, and like any other technique, executing it is a matter of having sufficient technical resources and skill.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2015, 6:20 pm 

All that aside, those glo-fish are mighty cool. I've been wanting glo-finches. I actually know someone who makes transgenic GFP finches for her research...
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 4th, 2015, 8:27 am 

All that aside, those glo-fish are mighty cool. I've been wanting glo-finches. I actually know someone who makes transgenic GFP finches for her research...


You know, I actually think out entire disagreement can be dealt with by the above. NO. Glofish are *hideous*. This is a blueberry tetra:
Image

produce by injecting dye into a white tetra. It's not art - it's the abuse of technology. Your faith in how GMO's are being developed is appalling - how is patenting a genome ethical? The fact that the entire process is driven by profit motive means that it is utterly corrupt. It is NOT in the best interest of anyone except those who get rich. How many 3rd World subsistence farmers are benefiting from GMO? No? How is making crops that are immune to herbicides so that they can be dumped out by the oceans-ful a good thing? Bear in mind that I'm an insulin dependent diabetic, so I am grateful for some things - but I still can't afford the patented once/day shots. This is what I want ended - the idea that information can be owned. Hell, I can't do research anymore - when I want to read a paper, it asks for my credit card number. Research should be state funded for the public good... Oops, late night rant....
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby BioWizard on November 4th, 2015, 10:28 am 

Tantric,

Your last post was little more than a Red Herring.

tantric » 04 Nov 2015 07:27 am wrote:
All that aside, those glo-fish are mighty cool. I've been wanting glo-finches. I actually know someone who makes transgenic GFP finches for her research...


You know, I actually think out entire disagreement can be dealt with by the above. NO. Glofish are *hideous*.


I don't think that it does - not even a little. Plus, your opinion on them has no bearing on whether or not I find them "cool".

Tantric wrote:It's not art - it's the abuse of technology.


Art was your word, correct? I disagreed with it. Abuse of technology (and biology) is certainly a more apt description.

Tantric wrote:Your faith in how GMO's are being developed is appalling


Where did I say that I was sufficiently content with how GMOs are currently being developed, let alone have faith in it?

Tantric wrote:how is patenting a genome ethical?


Wait, what? We're talking about patenting now?

Tantric wrote:The fact that the entire process is driven by profit motive means that it is utterly corrupt. It is NOT in the best interest of anyone except those who get rich. How many 3rd World subsistence farmers are benefiting from GMO? No? How is making crops that are immune to herbicides so that they can be dumped out by the oceans-ful a good thing? Bear in mind that I'm an insulin dependent diabetic, so I am grateful for some things - but I still can't afford the patented once/day shots. This is what I want ended - the idea that information can be owned. Hell, I can't do research anymore - when I want to read a paper, it asks for my credit card number. Research should be state funded for the public good... Oops, late night rant....


I'm surprised you think the above could in any way support your stance for opening genetic engineering to the public. If anything, it sounds like it could argue against it.

Regarding patentability, you should ask a business person to explain to you and pros and cons for private sector R&D (the sector which has been directly responsible for most of the medications on people's shelves) in a "free economy". You may have issues with that, but that's not for the biochemistry forum. And it's not an argument for or against the safety/soundness of genetic engineerings as a public practice.

Finally, nowhere have I stated or implied that the current system is optimal or that I'm perfectly content with it. But that should be a motvation to suggest better alternatives (assuming you have any), not an excuse to permit worse, more ridiculous alternatives. If your issue is with patenting of GMOs (which I don't think it is - that was just a red herring), then opening transgenics to the public is a horrible way to deal with it.
User avatar
BioWizard
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 12763
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Blog: View Blog (3)


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby SciameriKen on November 4th, 2015, 11:44 am 

I want to support your idea Tantric - but GMO research has a lot of bioethical concerns that a DIY may not consider. Bioethics is an important aspect of research because it requires the investigator to consider a lot more than "Can we get this done?". Issues like does this cause pain and suffering in animals? Can this alter the natural ecological balance? Will this psychological disturb the investigators?

When it comes to DYI science such questions may not be addressed. "Why do I care if a fish is in chronic pain for its whole life - it sparkles!?", "My sparkly fish escaped into a lake and really took off - now the birds are scared but at least the whole lake sparkles!", "That third attempt when the fish looked at me with the third eye and said 'heellllpp meeee!' kinda freaked me, but I feel a little better with sparkly fish..."

I'm sure on an individual basis a DIY'er may show concern for such issues - but widespread at home DIY GMO? That could get ugly.
User avatar
SciameriKen
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY
vivian maxineronjanecBioWizard liked this post


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 5th, 2015, 11:04 am 

what i would do with a genetics lab:

i'm interested in the genetics of domestication. there are dozens of species of fully domesticated tropical fish, to the extent that they selectively bred color morphs. there are two big families: characins and cyprinids, both mainly egg scatterers and fairly easy to breed. when a species of fish is domesticated for aquarists, the most important changes are adaptation to relatively poor water conditions: a range of pH, temp and ppm's of NH4, NO2 and NO3 not found naturally. question: is there commonality in the adaptations? that is, considering the differences between wild neon tetras and long term domestics, compared to the same for zebra danios, what is shared? assume, after a few decades, you resolve this and find commonalities. now, can you take a wild species and make an instant domesticate? this will NOT be done by microinsertion - one would assume the genes will have to be at specific loci, and some will be knocksouts.

further down, for the nobel, do the same with mammals. compare wild and domestic cows, horses and goats (to the extent that wild versions exist). is there commonality? now, can you take the Indian elephant, a semi-domesticate, and apply these changes? a fully domesticated elephant would be an absolute triumph of GMO that even hard core environmentalists can love, since most working elephants in SE are taken from the wild as babies. elephants just live too long and breed too slow for normal selective breeding.
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby SciameriKen on November 5th, 2015, 11:22 am 

User avatar
SciameriKen
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby vivian maxine on November 5th, 2015, 11:32 am 

Put them together and let nature take its course? Right now, many states - mine included - are trying to prevent what they call "invasive" life. But haven't we always had invasive life? Even we ourselves were invaders here. Of course we weren't wild - at least not most of us. Just saying. Creatures and plants travel the world as they please.
vivian maxine
Resident Member
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: 01 Aug 2014


Re: DIY GMO - amateur genetic engineering

Postby tantric on November 5th, 2015, 12:26 pm 

vivian maxine » November 5th, 2015, 11:32 am wrote:Put them together and let nature take its course? Right now, many states - mine included - are trying to prevent what they call "invasive" life. But haven't we always had invasive life? Even we ourselves were invaders here. Of course we weren't wild - at least not most of us. Just saying. Creatures and plants travel the world as they please.


While I was still a phd candidate at the ecology school, our building had an interior courtyard with open rafters, covered by a beautiful wisteria. In summer it was full of purple blooms, bees and anoles. But wisterias are invasive exotics and our dept had a lab devoted to the eradication of such...so the administration had the tree cut down without asking anyone. One day I went out and all there was was this horrible stump. So I got a piece of paper and cut out a quote balloon like comics use to show someone talking and put it on the stump saying: "The next time you want to get rid of an invasive species, try packing your own asses back to Africa." You understand this, right - humans coming out of Africa, megafaunal extinctions, etc. Well, the all black janitorial staff took it differently and went to the all white administration. I put it up Thursday night and didn't come back til Monday, when the witch hunt for racists was already in progress. They'd scheduled a legal team and councilors. Fortunately a week before at a staff wingding I happened to be on the back porch alone except for the vice-dean. Suddenly she started making weird noises, almost nothing, but panicky sounding, while grabbing her throat. I got it and ran over and did the Heimlich. Now, she's a small boned woman, and I'm tall - I picked her up and wasn't shy, cause she was really dying. It worked like a charm - a grape went flying across the porch. Afterwards she tried to thank me, and I said, "No, ma'am, thank you - you get to breathe, true, but I got to save a life, so I'm really the one who comes out on top." So I went to her and explained. She made it vanish. I really could have gotten suspended for that.

So, yeah, I don't think like other people - I don't even see most 'rules'. But I'm NOT a bad person, and I do think out my actions. Plus, karma.
tantric
Member
 
Posts: 64
Joined: 15 Jun 2015


Next

Return to Biochemistry

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests