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Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 11:57 pm
by Watson ... 180958288/

Just to correct the above link, and this is a bit off topic but....

The “new” galaxy is called GN-z11, and it’s located 13.4 billion light years away. To put that in context, that means that the galaxy existed just 400 million years after the Big Bang.

I realize the earth, solar system and local cluster didn't exist at the 400 million year marker, after the BB, but a region of the Universe that would become us did exist. So, 13.4 billion light years ago, our region of space was much closer to that galaxy or region of the Universe. The reverse of the z11 recession suggests a closer approximation of the two areas in the very distant past. It is not a direct line, or path toward this distant galaxy. It would be a contraction path which would mean they possibly shared no approximation to each other in the distant past. So imagining in our head, the closer our galaxy gets to GN-z11 the more it becomes, locally more distant.

Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: March 16th, 2018, 11:22 am
by Watson
Copied from another thread.
Our only view of the universe is how it looks from the inside and we can never travel outside the universe to observe whether it is expanding or not. Our conclusion that the universe is expanding is only valid if we can identify something that we know for certain is not changing in dimensions so we can say, ‘Relative to THIS the universe is expanding.’ but I doubt that any such thing exists.

If we look at all these expansion and contracting motions, and how they interact with the Universe, the Universe expands as a whole, or contracts as a whole. And as part of this expansion or contraction, we have agreed, we don't/can't notice any change, because we are equally effected by it. To us it is a static Universe regardless of these changes.

A Universal force would have the same flow and effects on an unchanging Universe. How can a Universal force, or a GOD force cast an influence evenly on the whole of the Universe? If you think of the motions of expansion, and imagine it in the opposite direction, it could be thought of as force coming from everywhere. Such a force could be touching us all, and equally touching those on the opposite side of the earth, and equally touching far off worlds as far as we can see or imagine.

And, if such a Universal force interacted very weakly with matter, it would be a repulsive influence pushing against matter as it interacts.

Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: March 18th, 2018, 7:49 pm
by Watson
I find it very interesting that the subject of various types of expansion are being discussed and debated by physicists. Even that they ponder the idea, is not something that was happening back in the late 1980's. Yet it seemed very plausible to me. And now, almost 40 years later, it is becoming a fashionable notion. Interesting to see what develops.

Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: March 26th, 2018, 10:42 am
by Watson
Quatntum Expansion

Quantum expansion is the three dimensional expansion of the particles of the Universe on the most elementary level. The Theory of the Big Bang implies that such expansion did occur during the birth of the Universe. From a point in space so infinitely small that it lacks any measurably dimension, the condensation and precipitation of matter expanded and solidified in to the Universe we have today. To become the size it is now, the elements of matter must have experienced expansion on the quantum level.
We can inflate a balloon, specked with dots and say that it represents the behavior of the expanding Universe. What if that same balloon, expanding equally in all directions, was made to represent one of many elementary particles? That would be Quantum Expansion.

Quantum expansion have the fantastic, Alice in Wonderland connotation. We can assume that either Alice grew, or shrank, or that there was a change in the size of her surroundings. The truth is we can only know that there was a change in the size of Alice, relative to her surroundings. Whether or not, Alice gets big, or the room gets small, depends entirely on which is considered the constant size. Maybe both are getting bigger, but one gets bigger faster. Only the relative change in size is of any consequence to Alice. If everything got bigger at the same time, with no relative change in size, Alice would not realize that any thing had changes
On a more realistic level, this is similar to the behavior of particles of matter, during the birth of the Universe. This condition may or may not be evident today, but by implication it certainly must have been a real phenomenon at the moment of creation.
With all matter in the Universe condensed into a singularity, each elementary particle must have occupied an infinitely small volume of space than it does today. At the moment of creation the particles of the Universe began to occupy an increasing volume of space. The particles expanded in a three dimensional fashion to occupy the volume of space we see today. The theory (Inflationary Scenario) implies that matter was compressed, and now it is not.
Under conditions of quantum expansion and the Laws of Nature, there is nothing to determine the true dimension of any particle, only the dimension of one particle relative to another. If the Universe is expanding in a three dimensional way, with all matter expanding at the same rate, there would be no relative change. There would be no point of reference, no point or particle of matter that remains the same unexpanded size, and thus, no way to observe the phenomenon.

And if there was such a particle of matter that did not expand with the rest of the Universe, it would not be obvious that the particle remains a constant size while the rest of the Universe expands. It is likely the particle would be seen as getting smaller. From a relative point of view, either assumption is correct. To understand the true dynamics of the expansion, the true constant must be identified.

It is our narrow way of looking at the Universe, with the perception of the every day experience, that blinds us to other possibilities. We assume the Universal expansion is two dimensional, with the heavenly bodies all moving away from each other. If each and every quantum particle, and elementary unit in the Universe expanded at the same rate there would be no relative change in the size of any part or portion of the Universe. The expansion would not be a noticeable condition.
A glass of water would not overflow with larger water molecules, because the molecules of the container would likewise expand encircling the larger volume of water with a wider deeper glass. Similarly, a plaster wall would not heave and crack, because all the elementary components of the plaster would expand in unison. There would be no noticeable effect, and no relative change.
The three points determined this far are: the Universe at one time expanded in a three dimensional way, there is no compelling reason to think the expansion stopped, and such expansion would be mostly unnoticeable.

The most conspicuous affect of this condition would be “Gravity”. To a grade 5 student learning of gravity, there is no mystery. When you jump, the earth comes up to meet you. No mystery! Then the teacher explains that it is impossible for that to happen, and begins to explain the mystery of gravity. Perhaps gravity would not be so mysterious if the impossible is considered.
A story attributed to Einstein, places a group of scientists in an elevator out in space away from any gravitational influences. The scientists do several simple experiments to determine the effects of gravity. When the elevator is given nonuniform motion, the scientists assume that they are witnessing gravity. According to his Principle of Equivalence of Gravitation and Inertia, Einstein determined that the effects of nonuniform motion (acceleration, centrifugal force) are indistinguishable from the effects of gravity. Quantum expansion is inherently such an acceleration.

Consider two planets, one four times bigger than the other. If we assume that one planet is ten units in diameter, then the second one is forty units in diameter. As the two planets double in size with the expansion over time, the lager planet will expand more quickly. The two planets are now twenty units and eighty units, respectively. The smaller planet expanded by ten units, while the larger planet expanded by forty units. The larger planet is still four times the size of the smaller planet, so there is no noticeable change due to the expansion.

If a man had been standing on the small planet, the expanding planet would have pushed him a distance of five units (half the total expansion). The same man on the larger planet would be pushed a distance of twenty units during the exact same period of time. This extra push gives the man increased weight on the larger planet. Further, through quantum expansion the smaller planet is approaching the description of the larger planet in size and rate of expansion. The increase in the rate of expansion is an acceleration.
Because the larger planet expands more quickly than the smaller, it must similarly expand more quickly than when it was a smaller planet. The nonuniform motion is inherent in the expansion of the planets.
Hubble’s Law is more than a description of the behavior of the heavenly bodies. In the Universe of three dimensional expansion, Hubble’s Law has a broadened application. Suppose that quantum particles are subjected to the same universal laws and conditions as the expanding Universe. This would account for the larger planet expanding more quickly than the smaller planet. The more distant particles from the core of the planet must away from the core more quickly.
The rate of expansion at the quantum level becomes the sum of all intermediate expansion. The distance between a point at the absolute center of the planet and a point on the surface, will increase due to the expansion. As the two points move away from each other, they will do so at an increasing rate, consistent with Hubble’s Law.
Conventional universal expansion involves space expanding freely in all directions, while quantum expansion is restricted. A planet must expand outwards and at the same time it must expand inwards. It is this inwards expansion that requires some attention.

If two billiard balls are placed on a table in such a fashion that they are touching, and if the two ball are allowed, by some magic, to expand freely to twice their original size, then the two balls will push each other equally to the left and right, respectively. If the same conditions exist, this time with the expansion to the left prevented, then the expansion to the right will increase by the amount previously attributed to the left side.
Similarly if there was a chain of ball in a line, all touching, any expansion would occur in the direction of least resistance and would be the sum of all intermediate
Quantum expansion involves this same linear expansion occurring evenly in all possible directions. The linear expansion between the ball and the point on the surface will be balanced by the expansion from the opposite side of the ball. The expansion will be in a direction toward the surface.

On an increasingly larger scale, the weight of this outward expansion will become to great, and inward expansion may become the path of least resistance. As matter expands towards the center of a large star, atoms would not have the same room to move freely. As we examine one path of the linear expansion, towards the center atoms encounter increasing pressure from all directions. At some point the atom will collapse. The electron orbits require more space than is available and as a result the electron must exist in a free state. The scenario continues in this way, similar to the Big Bang, in reverse. Near the core, the expansion pressure might become so intense that matter is reduced to pure energy. At the core, the measurable dimensions of this reality may cease to exist. The quantum radius (the sum of all intermediate expansion), would be great compared to the linear radius, (one half the diameter).
Perhaps the earth has some degree of pressure from quantum expansion that fires the molten core. The nuclear structure of matter may be very elastic under these conditions, but at some point the atomic structure will collapse. With the same process on a larger scale, a star would have much greater internal expansion, and generate much greater energy. It could be the crush of gravity that fires a star, or it could be quantum expansion.

A Black Hole could be an intense gravitational field, or it could be a region of space that doe not participate in, or keep up with the quantum expansion. A star or region of space that did not expand at the same rate as the Universe, would be seen to shrink and disappear and that region of space would appear to be a black hole. It could be described with the same horn shaped diagram and event horizon used to illustrate the black hole.
Similarly, if that same star had expanded at the same slower rate for only a fixed period of time, then it would shrink a certain amount, then maintain a stable relative size. This star would exhibit all the gravitational characteristics of the star of greater size, and yet appear to be physically very small. A neutron star may be the manifestation of this condition.
These Universal conditions are accounted for by present theories of gravity, at least to the extent that gravity is understood. It is interesting that quantum expansion can not only explain the gravitational phenomenon, at least as well as the force theory, but it also provides an identifiable mechanism. Quantum expansion has implications beyond the gravitational influences.

Universal background radiation is more even and uniform than science can account for. As stated previously, quantum expansion will occur in the direction of least resistance. Quantum expansion would have a softening effect on any irregularities that may have existed in the Universe leaving the uniformity we have today.

Quantum expansion could have an influence on the shape of the heavenly bodies. At the point where the inward expansion and outward expansion meet can be thought of as expansion neutral. On one side of the expansion motion is toward the center and on the other side the expansion motion is moving outward. This expansion interface between inward and outward expansion, would create a sphere some distance from the center. It is this interface that influences the round shape of the stars and planets. The concentric influence on the expansion interface is a direct result of the quantum expansion. Since the outward expansion occurs from this interface, the concentric shape will translate into a round planet or star.
Quantum expansion gives the cosmic dust cloud the same potential to form a planet or star as gravity. Quantum expansion causes particles of dust to expand in all directions. As they do so, the distance between them will become increasingly small. They will, in effect, migrate in all directions towards the nearby particles. As greater numbers of particles come into contact with each other they will begin to push, in the direction of least resistance, as they expand. As the gathering cloud expands outward, the sum of all intermediate expansion add up to increased expansion. The weight of the outward expansion will likewise increase, adding pressure on the core of the core of the expansion solidifying the dust into a solid mass. As the density at the center becomes greater, the weight of the outward expansion will become increasingly great. At some critical point the weight of the outward expansion will become to great and inward expansion will be the path of least resistance. The expansion interface will begin to develop. Expansion will become directed toward the core creating a solid object from that dust. The larger the planet becomes the faster it grows and the farther it can reach for more material on which to expand. The cosmic dust in the vicinity will appear to be drifting towards the planet as if attracted by gravity.
It seems that gravity would be much easier to understand if it had repelling characteristics. Action at a distance is a function of repulsion not attraction. Imagine a linear arrangement of billiard balls. Pushing the end ball in the direction of the line will move the whole line. The ball at the other end on the line will be affected by this action, even at considerable distance. To pull that same ball, as would resemble an attractive action, would not encourage the whole line to move, only the single ball. And even that single ball is actually being pushed.
Gravity is thus reduced to a repulsive (electro-magnetic) action, inherently apart of the condition of Quantum Expansion.

Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: March 29th, 2018, 11:35 am
by Watson
In cosmology, we cannot use a ruler to measure metric expansion, because our ruler will also be expanding (extremely slowly). Also any objects on or near earth that we might measure are being held together or pushed apart by several forces which are far larger in their effects. So even if we could measure the tiny expansion that is still happening, we would not notice or the change on a small scale or in everyday life. On a large intergalactic scale, we can use other tests of distance and these do show that space is expanding, even if a ruler on earth could not measure it.


So what's to say the expansion is extremely slow, or is a tiny expansion? I think the point is, if it is an existing condition, the rate of that expansion is open to any degree of expansion. And yes, we would not notice any such expansion regardless of the rate of this expansion.

Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: November 3rd, 2018, 8:18 pm
by Watson
As we can not know what the UNIVERSE may/could be expanding into or how fast such expansion takes place, it is a reasonable question to ask, "It this type of expansion linked to Gravity??

I say maybe.

OK science, you have had nothing to say so far. But it is seeping in to the conversations.

Re: Dimensional Expansion

PostPosted: November 4th, 2018, 5:28 pm
by hyksos
The thread hangs on from being moved to another section of the forum by a tiny wire.