A moving neutron is a proton?

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A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on July 31st, 2018, 12:44 pm 

A moving neutron (with a magnetic field) generates an electric field. Does it mean, a moving neutron is a proton?
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby Event Horizon on July 31st, 2018, 2:53 pm 

No. They have different constituent quark components.

Ps. the average life of an unbound neutron is only about twelve minutes or so anyway if I recall.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby JMP1958 on July 31st, 2018, 5:02 pm 

A changing magnetic field will generate a changing electric field, but this would require an acceleration of the Neutron and not just movement. In addition, the magnetic moment of a neutron is extremely weak at about 1/1000 that of an electron. So even an oscillating neutron would create much is the way of an electric field. And. as already pointed out, a free neutron decays fairly quickly, into a proton and electron. ( and no, this does not mean that a neutron is an electron and proton squeezed together. Some isotopes decay by having a proton decay into a neutron and positron.)
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a neutron duck test

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on July 31st, 2018, 10:13 pm 

A neutron by definition shouldn't posses an electric field, but it does when it moves. Seems like a serious problem at a foundational level since any experiment performed with a neutron will yield a result similar to that of an experiment performed with a charged particle. If it looks like a duck?

PS. Neutrons and protons attract each other with the same force, called strong force. And are made of the same particles called quarks.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on July 31st, 2018, 11:27 pm 

A neutron with an electric field, brings the Lorentz force into play and therefore, the demonstration of "spin" in the Stern-Gerlach experiment for eg, can be challenged.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 3rd, 2018, 4:05 am 

Event Horizon » July 31st, 2018, 2:53 pm wrote:No... the average life of an unbound neutron is only about twelve minutes or so anyway if I recall.

Whether it is bound or not, a moving neutron has an electric field. And that makes it a proton when it moves. Does it not?

PS. By proton, I mean a particle with a positive charge.
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Re: Halve Sum Fun

Postby Faradave on August 3rd, 2018, 2:29 pm 

A neutron is comprised by 3 quarks, each of which has fractional electric charge and the spin½ of all fermions. A net zero electric charge belies an uneven charge distribution within the neutron, thus a very weak magnetic moment. A net composite spin½ also results since individual quark spin signs are half -, half +. A theoretical spin 3/2 neutron has not been documented.

"The magnetic moment of the neutron is an indication of its quark substructure and internal charge distribution. … the neutron is composed of one up quark (charge +2/3 e) and two down quarks (charge −1/3 e). The magnetic moment of the neutron can be modeled as a sum of the magnetic moments of the constituent quarks."

Thought the Standard Model is not fully complete, it is thought that quark orbitals give a - core, + middle and - skin charge structure to the neutron.

On the other hand, neutrinos (being an example of dark matter) fundamentally lack a magnetic moment. Their angular momentum (spin½) is consistently attributed by conservation laws for various transmutations such as free neutron decay, noted above.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 3rd, 2018, 11:28 pm 

Hi all. At a composite level, a moving neutron's electric field is either positive or negative. Can someone identify which one it is?
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Re: Moving Violation

Postby Faradave on August 4th, 2018, 1:18 am 

The electric charges of fermions such as electrons & quarks are considered static charges with no requirement for motion. The outer negative charge layer of a neutron is thought to contribute very slightly to proton attraction. This is dwarfed by the strong nuclear force.

"In a simplified classical view, the negative "skin" of the neutron assists it to be attracted to the protons with which it interacts in the nucleus. (However, the main attraction between neutrons and protons is via the nuclear force, which does not involve [electric] charge.)"

A moving electric charge develops a magnetic field. While not yet conventionally understood, this also applies to "intrinsic spin" (or "spin½") of fermions. Magnetic moments described in the context of Stern-Gerlach measurements are typically of this variety.

Motion of a theoretical magnetic monopole would result in an electric field, but exhaustive searches have yielded no evidence for them.
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Re: Moving Violation

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 4th, 2018, 2:02 am 

Faradave wrote:The electric charges of fermions such as electrons & quarks are considered static charges with no requirement for motion. The outer negative charge layer of a neutron is thought to contribute very slightly to proton attraction.

On top of the (static) negative electric field, shouldn't movement of a neutron (with a magnetic field) add another layer of electric charge (to the neutron)? If so, what is the type of this charge: positive or negative?

PS. A generic question might be: A magnetic field transforms into an electric field. On a given particle, what is the charge of this electric field? Is it positive or is it negative?
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Re: Circular Argument

Postby Faradave on August 4th, 2018, 11:07 am 

The electric field induced by a moving magnet is not that of a static electric charge. A static electric charge has a radial field exhibiting the inverse square relation. Field lines emanating (technically "diverging") from a positive charge are said to terminate on separate negative charges (i.e. "converging").

Image

According to Faraday's law (one of Maxwell's famously collected & completed equations), a moving magnet (e.g. passing a bar along the axis of a wire loop) exhibits a circular electric field, terminating on itself. It's intensity falls off with radial separation (inducing a proportional current, if a wire loop is present).

Image

To answer your question, the electric field is not static , rather it is dynamic thus, not characterized as positive or negative. It's electric field "circulates" in a direction which (with a current or upon changing) induces its own magnetic field, opposing the change of magnetic flux which originally induced that field. That's why a left hand rule is employed.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 4th, 2018, 3:03 pm 

Faradave wrote:To answer your question, the electric field is not static , rather it is dynamic thus, not characterized as positive or negative.

An electric field by definition attracts or repels. If I bring an electron nearby, what does this field do?
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Re: Circulatory System

Postby Faradave on August 5th, 2018, 12:16 am 

In a vacuum or a suitable conductor, a free electron experiencing a circular electric field will flow in that circle. The diagram above shows a volt meter. I would have preferred an ammeter (which is what most volt meters are actually made from). Passing the magnet in and out of the wire loops generates an AC current in the wire (i.e. circulating electrons). It's a simple generator of the type which powers this "shake" flashlight.

Image

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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 5th, 2018, 12:29 am 

An electric field attracts or repels. What you are describing is not an electric field.
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Re: Induction Construction

Postby Faradave on August 5th, 2018, 2:16 am 

DJ_Juggernaut wrote:What you are describing is not an electric field.

Are you in a position to be making such pronouncements? I beg to differ. You're still failing to recognize the difference between a static electric field and an induced electric field.

"Electric fields are caused by electric charges, described by Gauss's law, or varying magnetic fields, described by Faraday's law of induction."

"...a changing magnetic field induces a circulating electric field." Fleisch p.59

If it helps, picture an electron being attracted in front, repelled from behind or both by a set of forces always tangent to the loop. This is often described as the electromotive force (EMF).
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Re: Induction Construction

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 5th, 2018, 2:47 am 

I don't know who is Fleisch, but I do know what an electric field is and what it does. You and Fleisch are not describing it. Coulomb's law is clear on this. Look it up, if you can.
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Re: Law Enforcement

Postby Faradave on August 5th, 2018, 11:01 am 

DJ_Juggernaut wrote:I don't know who is Fleisch, ...

Fleisch: "Dan Fleisch is a Professor in the Department of Physics at Wittenberg University, where he specializes in electromagnetics and space physics. He is the author of A Student's Guide to Maxwell's Equations published by Cambridge University Press in 2008, and is co-author with the late Prof. John Kraus of The Ohio State University of the McGraw-Hill textbook Electromagnetics with Applications. ..."

The underlined words in my posts are self-referential links. Click on them!

DJ_Juggernaut wrote: Coulomb's law is clear...

Indeed, it is.

"Coulomb's law, or Coulomb's inverse-square law, is a law of physics for quantifying the amount of force with which stationary electrically charged particles repel or attract each other."
"stationary" particle means static field. This law neglects induced or dynamic fields.

News flash: Physics relies on more than one law!

"The Maxwell–Faraday version of Faraday's law of induction describes how a time varying magnetic field creates ("induces") an electric field. … The dynamically induced electric field has closed field lines similar to a magnetic field"
"closed" = loops.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 5th, 2018, 11:38 am 

Faradave wrote:This law neglects induced or dynamic fields.

It doesn't. Coulomb's law applies to any electric field.
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Re: Static Fanatic

Postby Faradave on August 5th, 2018, 1:46 pm 

DJ_Juggernaut wrote:It doesn't.

I guess that settles it! Good bye.
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Re: A moving neutron is a proton?

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 5th, 2018, 1:58 pm 

Coulomb's law applies to any electric field. If it's moving, length contraction alters the charge distribution*. But I am not interested in this detail. I wanted to know whether the (contracted) electric field of a moving neutron attracts or repels, a nearby charged particle, say an, electron.

* Wiki says: Aside from the properties described in articles about electromagnetism, charge is a relativistic invariant. This means that any particle that has charge Q, no matter how fast it goes, always has charge Q.
Last edited by DJ_Juggernaut on August 5th, 2018, 3:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Static Fanatic

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 5th, 2018, 2:01 pm 

Fardave wrote:I guess that settles it! Good bye.

At least, we learned who is Fleisch.
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Dynamo theory of a neutron

Postby DJ_Juggernaut on August 6th, 2018, 12:52 am 

An unrelated note, but seems applicable here: The main idea of the theory is that any small magnetic field existing in the outer core, creates currents in the moving fluid there due to Lorenz force. These currents create further magnetic field due to Ampere's law. Thus a "seed" magnetic field can get stronger and stronger until it reaches some value that is related to existing non-magnetic forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamo_th ... amo_theory
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