Can the Future Affect the Past?

Discussions on classical and modern physics, quantum mechanics, particle physics, thermodynamics, general and special relativity, etc.

Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on June 30th, 2019, 11:46 am 

Can the Future Affect the Past?
These Physics Experiments Demonstrate How
Three experiments show that future events can affect the past.
By Marcia Wendorf
June 28th, 2019
#
We all know that the quantum world is weird,
but just how weird is it that the future can affect the past?

https://interestingengineering.com/can- ... strate-how
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on June 30th, 2019, 5:38 pm 

Modern Physics:
Can the Future Affect the Past?
Ancient Vedas:
Can the Present Affect the Future?
=====
What is more realistic concept:
''Future Affect the Past'' or '' Present Affect the Future'' ?
=====
Attachments
Y = Y.jpg
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby bangstrom on July 1st, 2019, 6:25 am 

socrat44 » June 30th, 2019, 10:46 am wrote:Can the Future Affect the Past?
These Physics Experiments Demonstrate How
Three experiments show that future events can affect the past.
By Marcia Wendorf
June 28th, 2019
#
We all know that the quantum world is weird,
but just how weird is it that the future can affect the past?

https://interestingengineering.com/can- ... strate-how


This is in reference to the Quantum Eraser Experiment from your citation above.

There are several theories involving light, most prominently John Cramer’s TIQM, where light can only be emitted from a source after a two way, non-local connection has been made between the signal sender and the receiver. That is, a signal moving forward in time and a signal moving backward in time are prerequisite for the emission of light. A consequence of this is that light can not be emitted if one of these signals is blocked even if the signal from the future to the present is the one that is blocked. If the latter case is possible, that would be an example of an event from the future preventing an event from happening in the present.

The difficulty in testing this theory is that, if a light signal is possible, that means that the signals moving both forward and backward in time were also possible assuming that they even exist. If one or both of the signals is blocked, then there would be no light and therefore nothing to observe. To test the theory we need something that can alternately block either signals coming from or going to the future by blocking one or the other but not both and a BBO crystal of the type used in the quantum eraser experiment may be just such a “diode” for light.

A BBO crystal is a parametric down converter which is explained in classical photon theory as a crystal that can split a photon exactly in half yielding two entangled photons- each with an opposite polarity and each with one half the energy of the original photon. A BBO crystal is also a birefringent polarizing crystal that splits ordinary light into two light paths having opposite polarity. Quartz crystals are familiar examples of a crystal having birefringent properties. The additional property that makes BBO crystals useful is that they are extremely heat resistant.

The quantum eraser experiment uses an intense UV laser as a light source. The source produces so much heat in the BBO crystal that any crystal having less heat resistance would explode with use. Only about one billionth of the UV light is down converted in the crystal into entangled quanta of visible light. That is why such an intense source of light is needed to produce usable amounts of light for experimental purposes. The UV light that passes through the crystal unchanged is eliminated with a UV blocking filter that allows visible light to pass.

The quantum eraser experiment makes sense without any exotic explanations about light going back in time to erase a previous path made in “error.” In Cramer’s theory, experiments with light must be examined from the perspective that light is preceded by two-way, wavelike connections moving both forward and backward in time. A reverse wave path would be imagined as waves coming from the detectors and converging simultaneously at the laser.

In the forward analysis, light passes through the BBO crystal once and is free to take all paths including paths to the coincidence detectors. But, in the reverse analysis, light travels from the detectors back to the laser where it passes through the BBO crystal a second time and the second pass blocks half of the light having the “wrong” polarity. A birefringent crystal can be made into a polarizing filter by placing two crystals side by side but rotated 90 degrees to each other. In the eraser experiment, the crystal remains in the same position while half the light is rotated so it can’t pass through the BBO crystal a second time. This is why we can either see light taking the interference path which lacks “which-way” information or we can see light taking the no-interference path having “which-way” information but we can never see both at the same time from any entangled pair. Light appears to be prescient of its destination because it is preceded by a two-way, wavelike connection going both forward and backward in time before it is emitted. The BBO crystal in the quantum eraser blocks whichever wave connection is “wrong” based on the final setup of the experiment so there no need for light to go back in time to erase a previous “wrong” path.
bangstrom
Member
 
Posts: 603
Joined: 18 Sep 2014


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby charon on July 1st, 2019, 7:40 am 

Sounds like a lot of hooey to me. Any tests are conducted in the present, not the future, and any effects are also detected in the present, not the past.
charon
Active Member
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: 02 Mar 2011


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on July 1st, 2019, 10:51 am 

charon » July 1st, 2019, 7:40 am wrote:Sounds like a lot of hooey to me.
Any tests are conducted in the present, not the future,
and any effects are also detected in the present, not the past.


Any tests /effects / interactions are conducted in the present,
we can revision them thinking ''where in the past was mistake''
and try to plan a new test / behaviour in the future,
Of course, not everybody can revision his old knowledge.
===
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby charon on July 1st, 2019, 12:21 pm 

I don't understand it. What does 'revision' mean?

(I apologise if English isn't your first language)
charon
Active Member
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: 02 Mar 2011


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on July 1st, 2019, 3:31 pm 

charon » July 1st, 2019, 12:21 pm wrote:I don't understand it. What does 'revision' mean?

(I apologise if English isn't your first language)



REVISION
/ definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary /
#
the act of changing or correcting something, or
the thing that has been changed or corrected:
#
a change that is made to something, or the process of doing this:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... h/revision

====
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby charon on July 2nd, 2019, 3:14 am 

So you want me to revise my old knowledge and accept your new knowledge. I'm afraid I can't accept your new knowledge.

You're saying (or the article is) that an action in the future will change something which has already taken place in the past. But we can't perform an action in the future, we have no access to it. Anything we do will be done in the present. I am writing this post now, in the present, not in the future. When you read it, it will be the present for you. It will also then be the present for me even if I don't see you do it.

I know the two presents aren't the same. Relative to me now you will read it in the future. But when you read it, it won't be the future, it'll be the present for both of us.

If there's something I'm missing you're going to have to make it a lot clearer!
charon
Active Member
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: 02 Mar 2011


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on July 2nd, 2019, 3:25 pm 

charon » July 2nd, 2019, 3:14 am wrote:So you want me to revise my old knowledge and accept your new knowledge.
I'm afraid I can't accept your new knowledge.

You're saying (or the article is) that an action in the future will change something
which has already taken place in the past. But we can't perform an action in the future,
we have no access to it.
Anything we do will be done in the present.
I am writing this post now, in the present, not in the future.
When you read it, it will be the present for you.
It will also then be the present for me even if I don't see you do it.

I know the two presents aren't the same.
Relative to me now you will read it in the future.
But when you read it, it won't be the future, it'll be the present for both of us.

If there's something I'm missing
you're going to have to make it a lot clearer!


Ha, ha, ha, . . .
Mr@charon , you are missing one point.
You have given answer to the questions:
a) Modern Physics:
Can the Future Affect the Past?
https://interestingengineering.com/can- ... strate-how
b) Ancient Vedas:
Can the Present Affect the Future?
c) What is more realistic concept:
''Future Affect the Past'' or '' Present Affect the Future'' ?
#
You answered:
a) Future Affect the Past / Modern Physics: / - it is not real
b) Present Affect the Future / Ancient Vedas / - it is correct
c) '' Present Affect the Future'' is more realistic concept
than ''Future Affect the Past,
#
You ''can't accept your new knowledge.'' ---
not mine knowledge, but the modern physics logic (according to the article
''Can the Future Affect the Past?
These Physics Experiments Demonstrate How''
====
P.S.
And, by the way, I need/want nothing from you
=====
Attachments
Question.jpg
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby charon on July 2nd, 2019, 4:58 pm 

Which means you can't explain it. Didn't think so.

When I first came here I expected a serious forum with intelligent people giving intelligent answers. Sadly, I haven't found one yet.
charon
Active Member
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: 02 Mar 2011


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on July 2nd, 2019, 5:25 pm 

charon » July 2nd, 2019, 4:58 pm wrote:Which means you can't explain it. Didn't think so.

When I first came here I expected a serious forum with intelligent people giving intelligent answers. Sadly, I haven't found one yet.


I am glad that you have explained this subject . . .
. . . and wish you success in your searching
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby charon on July 2nd, 2019, 6:11 pm 

Most threads end like this, personal, stupid.

Perhaps I'll go away.
charon
Active Member
 
Posts: 1791
Joined: 02 Mar 2011


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby bangstrom on July 3rd, 2019, 2:30 pm 

All of the experiments mentioned are conducted in the present and none claim to be performing in the future. You may be reading something articles that is not there..
No one is trying to force their opinions on you so feel to take what you read or leave it.
I suggest you drop the hostile attitude if you want a civil reply to your questions.
bangstrom
Member
 
Posts: 603
Joined: 18 Sep 2014


Re: Can the Future Affect the Past?

Postby socrat44 on July 3rd, 2019, 3:46 pm 

bangstrom » July 3rd, 2019, 2:30 pm wrote:All of the experiments mentioned are conducted in the present and none claim to be performing in the future.
You may be reading something articles that is not there..
No one is trying to force their opinions on you so feel to take what you read or leave it.
I suggest you drop the hostile attitude if you want a civil reply to your questions.


Reading article:
'' Nobel-Winning Physicist Frank Wilczek
on Complementarity as the Quantum of Life and
Why Reality Is Woven of Opposing Truths ''
===
''[Bohr] was fond of a concept he called “deep truth.”
. . . .
According to Bohr, ordinary propositions are exhausted by their
literal meaning, and ordinarily the opposite of a truth is a falsehood.
Deep propositions, however, have meaning that goes beneath their surface.
You can recognize a deep truth by the feature that its opposite is also a deep truth.''
#
''From his immersion in the quantum world, where
contradiction and truth are near neighbors, Niels Bohr
drew the lesson of complementarity:
No one perspective exhausts reality, and different perspectives
may be valuable, yet mutually exclusive.
The yin-yang sign is an appropriate symbol for complementarity, and
was adopted as such by Niels Bohr.
Its two aspects are equal, but different; each contains, and is contained within, the other. ''
#
''You have to view the world in different ways to do it justice,
and the different ways can each be very rich, can each
be internally consistent, can each have its own language and rules.
But they may be mutually incompatible — and to do full justice
to reality, you have to take both of them into account.''
#
https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/05/0 ... -question/

Hmm . . . ''Future Affect the Past'' <-------> '' Present Affect the Future'' . . . ? ! ?

=====
Attachments
Bohr coat of arms.jpg
socrat44
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: 12 Dec 2015



Return to Physics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests