Fat is back on the menu!

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Fat is back on the menu!

Postby SciameriKen on November 3rd, 2017, 11:12 am 

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... KU.twitter

A study just published in the lancet including >130,000 people across 5 continents, tracked mortality and cardiovascular events over a roughly 7 year period - finding: Carbohydrates increase the risk and fats lower the risk of adverse events.

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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BadgerJelly on November 3rd, 2017, 11:24 am 

Already figured this out ;)
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby Braininvat on November 3rd, 2017, 2:07 pm 

The Vat likes fat! Fats are wonderful. Personal favorite: pistachio nut. Delicious and healthy.

Least favorite: palm oil. They decimate rainforest to grow oil palm plantations.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on November 3rd, 2017, 2:23 pm 

So you mean Dr. Mark Hyman, his friends and associations that I have been following for several years now were right? :D

Posting while I eat pumpkin with full fat coconut milk for lunch.
Last edited by zetreque on November 3rd, 2017, 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby doogles on November 3rd, 2017, 5:50 pm 

Halleluja Sciamerikan

A breath of sanity has come back into the world. Thank you for drawing our attention to that research. It's nearly 85 years now since Weston Price published his book on Nutrition and Physical Degeneration (1931) in which he advocated rich creamy milk and butter as necessary for healthy bone and tissue development and advised us to avoid refined carbohydrates.

And it's 40 years since an American gerantologist established in a National Geographic report (1970s) that fatty diets did not prevent a cluster of centenarians from appearing in Nepal. I've been unsuccessful in locating this reference and would appreciate any help in that direction.

Obviously we need to question the basis of the whole cholesterol belief system as a result of this particular research.

I'm personally intrigued at how Homo sapiens can so easily run with so many poorly tested belief systems in every field of thinking and on a mass scale even amongst the 'intelligentsia' within our species.

Some sanity came into our thinking about stomach ulcers in the 1990s.

I believe there are quite a few similar current belief systems that need revision research from the ground up.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2017, 7:37 pm 

Beware of big sugar.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on November 3rd, 2017, 8:25 pm 

Guess what?
Salt is back on the menu too!

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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby wolfhnd on November 3rd, 2017, 8:48 pm 

I eat a lot of bread, refined sugar and fatty meat and have low cholesterol and blood pressure for my age. I have to give up milk a few years ago although I had consumed 2 gallons a week for 40 years. It seems that there is a lot of variation between individuals in what diet they can tolerate. It also seems that that tolerance can change.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2017, 9:48 pm 

wolfhnd » 03 Nov 2017 07:48 pm wrote:I eat a lot of bread, refined sugar and fatty meat and have low cholesterol and blood pressure for my age. I have to give up milk a few years ago although I had consumed 2 gallons a week for 40 years. It seems that there is a lot of variation between individuals in what diet they can tolerate. It also seems that that tolerance can change.


I thought the article associated high carb with high overall mortality - not cholesterol.

And yes there is variation, of course. But that doesn’t mean trends won’t hold - even within single individuals. So maybe you can tolerate a little more sugar than some, but that doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be even healthier than your current self if you reduced your sugar/carb intake.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby wolfhnd on November 3rd, 2017, 10:44 pm 

It might be interesting to measure health in terms of medical expenditures instead of mortality. Treatments being weighed to avoid distortions introduced by expensive treatments that don't directly contribute to quality of life. The problem is of course that quality of life is subjective.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on November 3rd, 2017, 10:50 pm 

Dunno, overall mortality seems a lot more “dead on” than some nebulous financial or psychological analysis.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BadgerJelly on November 4th, 2017, 12:36 am 

I reckon in a few years/decades people will be eating according to the bacteria they have (and fecal transplants will be much more commonplace too.)

I eat a lot of soy sauce, but the salt I consume is countered by the amount of water I drink and the fact that I steer wide of porcessed foods.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on November 4th, 2017, 12:38 am 

but you also have to be eating healthy to give you good bacteria. Two way street kind of thing.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BadgerJelly on November 4th, 2017, 12:51 am 

Well, yeah! I put that badly. They eat what they eat because the bacteria dictates to them what to eat. Hopefully we'll find ways to transition more quickly from one kind to another.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby wolfhnd on November 4th, 2017, 12:57 am 

BioWizard » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:50 am wrote:Dunno, overall mortality seems a lot more “dead on” than some nebulous financial or psychological analysis.


Maybe but I was trying to figure out how to account for people who are sick for decades before they die and quality of life issue. The results are likely to be the same but the data could be used in a more nuanced way.

I have no doubt that a high sugar, carbohydrate diet is unhealthy. Unfortunately that is the least expensive diet for most people. There is some evidence that life expectancy even declined with the advent of agriculture, although other factors such as communicable diseases would have to be considered. In any case the discussion could be expanded to include the less affluent.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on November 4th, 2017, 1:04 am 

There are people do the calculations about how much cheaper it is to eat healthy expensive foods because it saves on healthcare costs. I heard someone claim last week that it was 2000$ a year cheaper to ditch the carbs and sugars in food costs alone.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BadgerJelly on November 4th, 2017, 2:48 am 

Wolf -

I lot of people just didn't have the digestive system to cope with grains or dairy products. No doubt in my mind that humans paid a certain price for switching diet.

I have heard quite a few stories about people simply changing diet and recovering from this or that ailment. There seems to be a lot of hidden allergies that go mostly unnoticed.

More and more I am seeing western research pushing doctors to get patients to change their diet instead of resorting to pharmaceuticals.

I watched a quite shocking lecture the other day about genetically modified animals and crops. The amount of fear around GM farming is a huge thorn in the side of society. Heard of the pig they made that produced antibodies in its saliva? It was not used by any farmers and instead antibiotics are being pumped into their feed. The bizarre thing was that the saliva produced antibiotics in such a small quantity that empirically it should've made no difference to immunity (but it drastically reduced disease - I think it was in Gifford Lecture ... nope Edinburgh University site : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB6rXAXmzQg - recommended!)
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on November 4th, 2017, 9:29 am 

There are a lot of antibiotics and GMO pesticides that they claim are safe for humans but fail to recognize they are not safe for our gut bacteria is what the science is now showing.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BadgerJelly on November 4th, 2017, 12:20 pm 

zetreque » November 4th, 2017, 9:29 pm wrote:There are a lot of antibiotics and GMO pesticides that they claim are safe for humans but fail to recognize they are not safe for our gut bacteria is what the science is now showing.


The point made in the lecture is that it appears fear of GM forces us to use way more antibiotics than are necessary. Ironically if GM use was less feared then we wouldn't be using anywhere near as many antibiotics to keep livestock from becoming diseased.

Of course I am not an expert and some of the info in the presentation by David Hume did leave me with quite a few unanswered questions.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on November 4th, 2017, 12:31 pm 

That sounds like an absurd relationship. I already have about 4 lectures on my to watch list so not sure when I will get around to the one above. Not sure I understand the logic. People don't HAVE to use antibiotics in livestock if they grazed them right. It's a choice. There might be financial pressure due to absurd legislation though.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BadgerJelly on November 4th, 2017, 1:42 pm 

zetreque » November 5th, 2017, 12:31 am wrote:That sounds like an absurd relationship. I already have about 4 lectures on my to watch list so not sure when I will get around to the one above. Not sure I understand the logic. People don't HAVE to use antibiotics in livestock if they grazed them right. It's a choice. There might be financial pressure due to absurd legislation though.


If farmers want to compete in the market they do. I don't think it is absurd trying to keep your livelihood going. I think there is something to the argument he has against non-meat diet ideas, but I would say that when it comes to the effects of some of this we're still not in any position to conclude anything definitively (the whole deal of the stomach and human digestive tract and its influence on the brain has made to quite skeptical about assuming too much safety. But there is the valid point about GM modifying being an age old practice anyway and we're just capable of doing it more carefully now than in the past). I really think you should watch the video. Edinburgh University in renown the world over for its work in this area (it is one of the leading authorities when it comes to research in genetics and agriculture.)
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby wolfhnd on November 4th, 2017, 3:55 pm 

It is likely that the people on high sugar, carbohydrate diets have other habits in there lifestyle that effect the statistics. Of course the relationship between the diabetes epidemic and high fructose sugar is clear but that doesn't mean that fat in excess isn't something to worry about. We have been making decisions based on correlative statistics and that is ok but really it seems to me most of this is covered by the axiom everything in moderation. Of course large segments of the population may be negatively effected by consuming even small quantities of foods that they can't process but that could in part be due to what Badger is saying about suboptimal gut bacteria.

I think the best example of how devoid of common sense these topics can be is tobacco. Long before cigarettes were definitively linked to lung cancer statically I remember them being called coffin nails. I think people know they shouldn't eat three bags of potato chips or 10 cans of soda a day. The irony is that if health care was less effective people might focus more on changing their environment.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby wolfhnd on December 8th, 2017, 6:08 pm 

I watched Dr. Lustig’s video on the dangers of fructose when it was first released and found it convincing. I especially liked the cross cultural epidemiology. I had already pretty much given up added sugar and soda because of old age belly fat and dental problems. I didn't bother fact checking his data because let's face it common sense tells you that sugar in large quantities has to be unnatural. Of course natural and healthy is and indirect correlation, the connection between survival and being energetic being disconnected to some degree from healthy.

Yesterday I watched an interview with Dr. Lustig and realized how fanatical he is not only in regards to fructose but apparently anything he is passionate about. Dr. Lustig has done valuable scientific work but the elimination of fructose as a miracle cure is in some ways dangerous because lowering overall calorie intake and exercise is still important. My view is more about the insanity of big government than the merits of Dr. Lustig's work. Subsidized corn is literally insane if we are adding it to everything we eat and burning it for transportation. We need an educational system that imparts wisdom as much as technical competency. Anyway here is one blogger's response to Dr. Lustig.


http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/1 ... sm-debate/
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on December 8th, 2017, 7:53 pm 

I cut my consumption of refined carbs by over 90% and refined sugar by over 99% for the past couple of months. Amongst other things I did, but that was the major. I think I’ve lost over 15 lbs (probably closer to 20 now). I’m pure lean muscle with barely any unnecessary fat on me. My core hasn’t looked like this since I was maybe 15 years old. I haven’t avoided fats though - I’m eating a lot of meat including red meat, nuts, lots of olive oil, fish 2-3 times a week. Pretty happy with the outcome.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on December 8th, 2017, 7:58 pm 

I don’t know how related this was but my skin looks significantly better and many (women) have been asking me what I’ve done. Also seems like my body is a lot less inclined to get into a runaway inflammatory process - allergies are effectively gone, mosquito bites don’t turn into crazy rashes the way they used to, etc. Though like I said, I’ve been doing other things to my diet - such as incorporating mega doses of ginger, cumin, turmeric, and black seed on a daily basis.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby zetreque on December 8th, 2017, 8:01 pm 

BioWizard » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:58 pm wrote:I don’t know how related this was but my skin looks significantly better and many (women) have been asking me what I’ve done. Also seems like my body is a lot less inclined to get into a runaway inflammatory process - allergies are effectively gone, mosquito bites don’t turn into crazy rashes the way they used to, etc. Though like I said, I’ve been doing other things to my diet - such as incorporating mega doses of ginger, cumin, turmeric, and black seed on a daily basis.


Welcome to the club :)
I learned this all the very very hard way and I can tell people until I'm blue in the face about our toxic world and holistic diet but they have to experience it first hand.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby wolfhnd on December 8th, 2017, 8:38 pm 

I still say nobody really had to tell us our diet is horrible. We like being zombies and pretending that the government is watching over our food supply. Most people just don't want to think about it, especially males.g

I eat a lot of bread and pasta because I don't like the good stuff like fruit and vegetables. I hate fish, most nuts and chicken. I'm not even that found of red meat. About the only thing healthy about my tastes is indifference to alcohol. I consider a Mediterranean diet bread, cheese and processed olives which I'm found of for a meal. Some people will have an easier time eating healthy than me. I encourage people to eat Bio's diet so I guess that makes me a hypocrite.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on December 8th, 2017, 8:54 pm 

Welp, I’m mediterranean, so eating a mediterranean diet comes natural to me :)
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby BioWizard on December 9th, 2017, 12:53 am 

zetreque » 08 Dec 2017 07:01 pm wrote:
BioWizard » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:58 pm wrote:I don’t know how related this was but my skin looks significantly better and many (women) have been asking me what I’ve done. Also seems like my body is a lot less inclined to get into a runaway inflammatory process - allergies are effectively gone, mosquito bites don’t turn into crazy rashes the way they used to, etc. Though like I said, I’ve been doing other things to my diet - such as incorporating mega doses of ginger, cumin, turmeric, and black seed on a daily basis.


Welcome to the club :)
I learned this all the very very hard way and I can tell people until I'm blue in the face about our toxic world and holistic diet but they have to experience it first hand.


I was never truly not in the club. Just finally took it the final mile, I suppose. At least with the disgusting carb/sugar that get dumped into everything.
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Re: Fat is back on the menu!

Postby Braininvat on December 9th, 2017, 11:10 am 

You got some great results, Wiz.

My experience was that it was sugars and white flour (or white rice) elimination that made the big difference - I've been at or near my lean high school weight ever since. But I still eat whole grain oats and wheat and turnips - they don't put weight on me and supply fiber and vites and amino acid balance (for vegetarian) that are useful. Rest of the diet is vegetarian Mediterranean with occasional fish, and hit an Indian cuisine place now and then (which generally means "mega doses" of cumin and turmeric). I've also found that some oils are best avoided - canola oil seems to often reach supermarket shelves more than halfway to rancid and may have other problems in factory processing. Soybean and corn oil are worthless. Flax and olive oil are good, if fresh and cold-pressed. Also pasture-raised butter.

If you're a male past 55, I'd recommend flax or cashew milk instead of cow's milk. But don't give up white cheeses until someone holds a gun to your head.
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