We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Discussions on the interactions between components of the environment and their effects on all types of organisms.

Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby TheVat on May 9th, 2019, 1:03 pm 

What makes all this so frustrating is that regulating the fishing industry is both cheap and easy. If commercial fishing were excluded from large areas of the sea, the total catch would be likely, paradoxically, to rise, due to what biologists call the spillover effect. Fish and shellfish breed and grow to large sizes in the reserves, then spill over into surrounding waters. Where seas have been protected in other parts of the world, catches have grown dramatically. As a paper in the journal PLOS Biology shows, even if fishing was banned across the entire high seas – as it should be – the world’s fish catch would rise, as the growing populations would migrate into national waters....


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... government

I have pledged to stop eating fish, in light of the current situation. Will report back in a year or two on how my osteoarthritis is doing after a decreased intake in the most absorbable forms of Omega-3 fatty acids. (plant-based om-3s, like flax and walnut oil have good amounts of om-3, but of a less absorbable form that is often degraded in transit, and during the refining process, due to their ease of oxidation) I was only eating one serving a week, so maybe not a big deal, but I'm also quitting products that have fish oil as a healthy additive, like some protein bars. (note: all results will be anecdotal, and scientifically worthless)
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby Serpent on May 9th, 2019, 4:18 pm 

Interesting. We don't eat fish - and I've never particularly liked it, so that wasn't a sacrifice.

You don't want it now, anyway; all the fish are full of plastic waste. Ugh!

For you Omega 3, here are some suggestions to get enough without the degradation involved in processing: eat the foods directly, and in the optimal combinations.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-plant-sources-of-omega-3s
I was delighted by the Brussel sprouts - love them as salad, cooked, roasted or fried

I make a laxative according to the internist's recommendation:
1 part grated or mashed apple
1 part bran
1 part prune juice (sometimes more, for a sloppier texture)
1/2 part ground flax seed
big dash of cinnamon or pumpkin spice mix (cinnamon, nutmeg, clove, mace)
mix thoroughly (just chuck everything in the food processor)
keep in top shelf of fridge and eat like pudding, as needed.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby TheVat on May 10th, 2019, 9:14 am 

Thanks for the tips - the algal oil looks like a good source of the DHA/EPA form. As for Brussels sprouts, I've heard there's a genetic aspect of liking them (which I do, too) that has to do with liking somewhat bitter pungent flavors. My spouse can't eat them, and I know they hit her palate differently.
Vive la salmon!
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby Serpent on May 10th, 2019, 10:39 am 

Brassicas can be as tricky to digest as legumes.
It's also a matter of time. I never liked Brussel sprouts until about age 60, when I threw some into mixed veg roast ...(...Oh, to make an outdoor fire!.... but it's cold and wet...)... and tasted them again after many years.
I hated celery for half my life; now it's one of my favourite juice and soup ingredients. Olives are for grownups; I was 25 before I discovered what people in the movies liked about them. ....(can't have a dirty Martini anymore, either....bummer...)...
And sometimes a matter of how it's is cooked. The Anglo-American tradition with vegetables is what puts off most of their children. When I first came to Canada, I couldn't understand why spinach was supposed to be bad. Then I had some a classmate's house. Oh. Aha.
But I'm never tasting maggot-sausage. https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/humans-will-eat-maggot-sausages-as-a-meat-alternative-scientists/
Nice to see the fast food industry catching up to meatless burgers.
We're not impressed with Wendy's; A&W's has been just okay for years; will check out Burger King's next.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby TheVat on August 16th, 2019, 1:14 pm 

The "regrettable substitution" problem rears its head again....

PFAS in "recyclable" lunch bowls:

Before I revealed that they contain PFAS, plant-based bowls seemed to be a sustainable solution to the restaurant industry’s overwhelming takeout waste problem. Many are made from a renewable byproduct of the sugar-making process – bagasse, the pulpy fiber that is left over after sugarcane is processed. Compared with plastic and foam, which tend to be made from virgin petroleum, this raw material can have a much lower carbon footprint. Unfortunately, it’s now clear that the benefit comes with a catch. This is what environmentalists call a “regrettable substitution”: when a promising new replacement technology comes with unintended consequences of its own.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -chemicals

(paywall free site)
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby Serpent on August 16th, 2019, 3:41 pm 

What was wrong with plates and bowls? Washing dishes can't be anywhere near as harmful as manufacturing millions of something for a single use. Surely, paying one more teenager or immigrant minimum wage to load the dishwasher can't be more expensive than buying and disposing of all that waste!
Added health bonus for the customer: Sit. Use cutlery. Talk to one another. Take time. Be civilized. Put off the ulcer and heart attack for a couple more years.
Added positive byproducts: nobody's driving while groping for their napkin, or biting down on gristle; nobody's throwing plates and cups out their car window onto the verges.

Alternatively, I quite like chili, korma or salad in a hollow crust of bread. Downside: I'm not a fan of bread pudding, and how much crumbs or croutons do you need?
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby doogles on August 17th, 2019, 5:31 pm 

Not exactly a food problem but a bad 'substitution' idea
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby Serpent on August 17th, 2019, 7:35 pm 

Me too. Oh, paper bags are bad for the environment? And hard to carry?
Don't bring the same old net or cloth bags people have been using successfully for two centuries - oh, no: Progress demands trillions of single-use bags that require trillions of barrels of dirty oil to make and take two hundred years to turn into toxic micro-plastic debris, absolutely everywhere.
You got a problem with that?
The funniest part is that we have, during that same period, increased enormously the amount of paper thrown away by offices - all of which could have been recycled into grocery bags and packing cartons.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby TheVat on August 18th, 2019, 10:23 am 

I too remember when plastic was touted as the savior of trees. The spouse and I have gone to reusable cloth bags, hoping to be less caught on the horns of regrettable substitution. I still lapse occasionally, because plastic grocery bags works so well for the poo and urine clumps I fish from the litter box. (sorry, this strays a bit from the food topic) Still working out alternatives that don't involve either complex burial schemes or introducing bits of litter (chemically treated clay) into our sewage line. Paper sacks don't contain the odor of the treasures mined from the box which, in certain areas of the house, is seen as a liability. Though the cat food bags aren't too bad, and that usage has a certain symmetry to it. Just not enough empty bags to keep up with output.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby TheVat on August 18th, 2019, 10:27 am 

I leave the volumetric analysis as an exercise for the reader.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby Serpent on August 18th, 2019, 11:01 am 

TheVat » August 18th, 2019, 9:27 am wrote:I leave the volumetric analysis as an exercise for the reader.

This reader is all too familiar! It can't go in the compost and even clumping litter is damn heavy for the one bin per two-week garbage pickup. Usually, I collect it in a covered plastic bin - not unlike diaper pails - and lug it to the defunct gravel pit next door. In winter, this is difficult at best; in the city, impossible. Especially when three or four cats are overwintering around our stove.
One diet-related observation: it's a bit more compact and smells less awful when I feed them home-made than canned food. Way less farting, too. The cost is about the same; the waste is plastic and styrofoam wrapping rather than steel and aluminium; there is more work and mess; my partner won't come near the kitchen while it's going on; the plastic containers fill up the freezer; the bones need safe disposal and I feel like crap about the chicken or turkeys.
Let's face it: cats are evil; harbouring them is an ecological crime: we are ruled, once again, by our hearts. On balancing that with my wallet, home-made cat food has a slight edge.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby TheVat on August 18th, 2019, 4:52 pm 

Many useful thoughts. And you've brought it back to thread topic, given that pet diets are part of the overall food picture. LOL "cats are evil," yes we confront that every day as they con us with their affectionate ways. I've found a sacked dry food without poultry, just salmon and brown rice, which seems to go farther than the chicken-plus-corn-stink pop brands. And is much liked. And they tend to gain less weight on it. Who wants a fat cat? that can't catch mice (and sometimes house flies, as one of ours does regularly)? Haven't worked out fully the carbon footprint of fish heads vs poultry byproduct, though.
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Re: We absolutely cannot win (ecofriendly diets?)

Postby Serpent on August 18th, 2019, 6:12 pm 

Once the solar-powered meat replicating plants are fully operational, we'll have excellent quality, cruelty-free, low-impact cat and dog food - contraceptive and vitamin supplement optional - packaged in compostable hemp-byproduct bags, all these headaches will fade away.
I wonder how they'll manage to screw that up....
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