Climate Change Prevention

Discussions on the interactions between components of the environment and their effects on all types of organisms.

Re: Climate change

Postby elvinjansol on May 26th, 2016, 1:57 am 

How can i enter an international organization regarding climate change i would like to attend international seminars for my people to know how important it is.
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Re: Climate change

Postby elvinjansol on May 26th, 2016, 7:37 am 

Is there a way i can join international group about this matter im a participant of #NOWPH about climate change can i join another group that provides a seminar regarding climate change inform me please
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Re: Climate change

Postby Serpent on May 26th, 2016, 9:10 am 

elvinjansol » May 26th, 2016, 6:37 am wrote:Is there a way i can join international group about this matter im a participant of #NOWPH about climate change can i join another group that provides a seminar regarding climate change inform me please

http://world.org/weo/climate
http://world.org/weo/climate
http://oae.sagepub.com/
For a start.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Braininvat on June 28th, 2016, 12:14 pm 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/scien ... rming.html

Not an encouraging trend. I guess, for every step forward (Tesla makes e-cars sexy and cute), there's a step backwards.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Watson on June 28th, 2016, 12:44 pm 

Not to mention the methane leak in California that spewed gas for a few months. Talk about a step back.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on June 28th, 2016, 2:34 pm 

Braininvat » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:14 am wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/science/cars-gas-global-warming.html

Not an encouraging trend. I guess, for every step forward (Tesla makes e-cars sexy and cute), there's a step backwards.


People feel safer in those big cars. The bigger the car, the more momentum you carry into a collision to soften the impact. They also feel more powerful. People have a thing for power over others, especially on the subconscious level. If you make gas cheap, people will use it. People don't care about future consequences they can't see. All these activism movements against any sort of pollution needs to put the invisible to our senses visible. I think I remember a group using another wavelength of light to try to get people to see their emissions. Satellites and digital photography are making it possible to physically see changes over time. That was what was so powerful in the documentary "chasing ice".
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on June 28th, 2016, 3:34 pm 

Watson » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:44 am wrote:Not to mention the methane leak in California that spewed gas for a few months. Talk about a step back.


The fracking industry as a whole was a major step backward.

The Obama administration is what really went in that direction with good intentions. Their argument was that it burns cleaner. Somehow they completely missed the point that methane aka natural gas is a far more potent greenhouse gas than burning oil or coal and didn't take into consideration just how much escapes during the fracking and transport of it. And now we have Hilary taking the technology to other countries.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on July 29th, 2016, 9:42 am 

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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby vivian maxine on July 29th, 2016, 10:41 am 

If you like kale, which I do. It will be interesting to see how those who have likely not thrived on a "high-vegetable" diet do with it.

"Out of every "bad" comes "good".
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on July 29th, 2016, 10:55 am 

Also peas, spinach, tomatoes, melons, - everything you can grow in a greenhouse. Seven months is a pretty decent growing season. Even kale beats the hell out of kelp - and that little kid's reaction to salty food shows how far they have departed from the traditional northern diet. Almost every food item has been carried in by air, except the couple of months when the road is frozen hard enough to support a truck - and that's been iffier every year.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby vivian maxine on July 29th, 2016, 11:24 am 

Serpent » July 29th, 2016, 9:55 am wrote:Also peas, spinach, tomatoes, melons, - everything you can grow in a greenhouse. Seven months is a pretty decent growing season. Even kale beats the hell out of kelp - and that little kid's reaction to salty food shows how far they have departed from the traditional northern diet. Almost every food item has been carried in by air, except the couple of months when the road is frozen hard enough to support a truck - and that's been iffier every year.


How does that compare with the sudden appearance of new/strange foods from Africa, China, South America that are suddenly appearing in our stores and our reaction to them? That's for strange, previously unknown foods, not those we already know and expect a certain taste. How do we, as a whole, react to a food we've never known existed? Or at least, never tasted? Just wondering.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on July 29th, 2016, 9:28 pm 

I suspect hominids have always been curious enough to try everything. Certainly, civilized - and probably pre-civilized - peoples have done trade over long distances, and for quite valuable resources, to acquire foods they could not produce: spices and dried fruit, nuts and smoked fish. Modern urban people revel in the variety of restaurants they can go to; lap up television programs about different methods of cooking and food travelogues; buy exotic foods as soon as they appear in a supermarket.

As for the Inuit, they've been exposed to European style packaged foods for a long time; fresh is harder to come by, very expensive and not all that fresh by the time it arrives.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby vivian maxine on July 30th, 2016, 8:50 am 

Serpent » July 29th, 2016, 8:28 pm wrote:I suspect hominids have always been curious enough to try everything. Certainly, civilized - and probably pre-civilized - peoples have done trade over long distances, and for quite valuable resources, to acquire foods they could not produce: spices and dried fruit, nuts and smoked fish. Modern urban people revel in the variety of restaurants they can go to; lap up television programs about different methods of cooking and food travelogues; buy exotic foods as soon as they appear in a supermarket.

As for the Inuit, they've been exposed to European style packaged foods for a long time; fresh is harder to come by, very expensive and not all that fresh by the time it arrives.


I know you are right. I am just thinking in numbers. It does seem the majority get on board fast. Foods that are entirely new to us ask only that our taste buds accept the taste. What about foods that are not new to us, just different? E.g. dried apricots from the Middle East or oranges from somewhere in Africa or South America. Cherry and grape tomatoes from Mexico. It isn't because they are from foreign countries. The soil is different which makes for different tastes. Several years ago, Oregon Fruits Company proved that when they lost a tart cherry crop and substituted a crop from somewhere in Europe. They were good but surely not the same.

Well, nevermind. I'm just thinking of my own reactions and that of the few friends I have. Especially the "desert apricots". That is why I asked "how well does it catch on?". You make the point well. People love the new foreign food restaurants. Adventuresome spirit?

Enjoy whatever you eat. I am glad to hear that more fresh greens will reach the Inuit - if they hadn't before. Next best thing? Frozen greens?
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on July 30th, 2016, 9:21 am 

We started harvesting our own tomato, pole bean and pod pea crops a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you one thing: the closer the eater is to the plant, the better it tastes. (My brother when he was 1-2 years old, used to graze in the vegetable garden - literally: crawl along on all fours, biting tomatoes off the vine. 60 years later, he still likes his veg fresh and raw.) Every village, every city apartment building, every school, every office and factory ought to have its own plot, roof or hydroponic garden.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Athena on July 31st, 2016, 1:16 am 

In another 6000 thousand years, our brains may evolve enough to handle things like the global warming problem and over population problems. Here is an explanation of why it may have been easier for us to survive with our brains back then than now. Like our brains evolved for a nature caused reality and what threatens us now is man made and our brains have not evolved to deal with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAMKSPWz25E
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby bangstrom on July 31st, 2016, 2:36 am 

The climate change debate reminds me of a cartoon I saw many years ago. I think it was in Colliers magazine. It showed a group of cavemen in front of an advancing glacier and one of them was standing on top of a rock asking, “Do you want a politician who just talks about all this ice or do you want someone who is going to DO something about it?"
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on July 31st, 2016, 9:22 am 

That's a cheerful thought or my Sunday morning!
especially as I'm inclined to agree
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Braininvat on July 31st, 2016, 10:20 am 

Good lecture, Athena.....pinpoints our cognitive problems with slow and abstract threats nicely.

Even my fairly educated brain responds to climatic unpleasantness with paleolithic nomad impulses, like "it's cold, I want to head south!" My inner nomad says, "winter in S. Dakota....hmm, buy a little winter house in San Antonio..." I knew a guy in Winnipeg who acted on such an impulse, can't say I blame him. In this area, the Black Hills, you only need migrate 20 miles up into the highest hills to dodge summer heat. Problem with the summer cabin thing is, you then create more greenhouse gas, driving back into the big town for supplies and checking on your primary residence and generally TCB. And, of course, ducking the problem of really finding low-carbon ways to live in your main house year-round.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby vivian maxine on July 31st, 2016, 10:24 am 

Serpent » July 31st, 2016, 8:22 am wrote:That's a cheerful thought or my Sunday morning!
especially as I'm inclined to agree


As am I but I think this current summer may change my mind. :-(
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Braininvat on August 23rd, 2016, 12:11 pm 

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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby vivian maxine on August 23rd, 2016, 12:44 pm 



They won't let me read it. I've had my "ten". Maybe I can save it until September. Worth a try. Thanks.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on August 23rd, 2016, 12:58 pm 

I love the idea of wind mills and wind farms. Wind has a lot going against it though. Unfortunately I will hesitate until noise concerns are met in a clear reputable way. Both in the initial building of them, and in the low frequency emissions during operation. On the other side, I won't deny that the harm of windmill noise might not outweigh the harm from other sources of energy. Then again, I will hesitate until a fully encompassing and reputable cost benefit analysis is assembled.

Underwater noise pollution has been making headlines in the past couple months with some wins for eco organizations in US court.
https://www.ecojustice.ca/u-s-court-win ... es-stands/

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... 5&as_sdtp=
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on August 23rd, 2016, 1:18 pm 

sorry, that one article was old.
There was a whole slew of articles about a month ago and win in court but of course now I can't find any.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... 5d9882805a




http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/2016 ... =hootsuite
Last edited by zetreque on August 23rd, 2016, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added link
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby vivian maxine on August 23rd, 2016, 2:22 pm 

Thank you, Zetreque. I'm for diminishing noise wherever it is and this ocean noise problem has been a steadily growing one for some time. Good to see it is being tackled. Let's hope they give NOAA the funding to get the job done. So much is asked of NOAA without the funding to back it up forthcoming.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on August 23rd, 2016, 6:57 pm 

I don't see wind-farms as a good idea. Well, of course, i want the electric grid dismantled (It should never been built!) and replaced by local energy generation, on a small, manageable scale, according to whatever power source is most readily available. I favour litttle hydro projects in towns, or even individual homes, with river or creek access: you don't have to divert the water for long, just make part of it, a mill-stream, run faster for a while, while the fish are not interfered-with in the main stream.

Have I mentioned this little wind generator before? http://www.treehugger.com/wind-technology/new-bladeless-wind-turbine-claimed-be-twice-efficient-conventional-designs.html It solves some of the problems - doesn't kill birds, for instance - but probably still disturbs the bats. They're having a hard enough time already.
People do have clever ideas, but we're not there yet, by a long chalk.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on August 23rd, 2016, 7:12 pm 

Individual or smaller windmills are far better for the same reason all micro distributed energy is better. When people generate their own power or it's generated near where they live, there is less of a chance of it being an environmentally destructive way of doing it.
Have you heard of the acronym NIMBE?
In other words, people love a lot of things, just "Not in My Back Yard."

Local is more transparent and any ill side effects from whatever is produced must be accepted in full in order to reap the rewards.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Braininvat on August 23rd, 2016, 11:09 pm 

Meanwhile, back in the real world where people use fossil fuels, wreaking massive destruction and catastrophic change in climate and biosphere, wind looks like a wonderful alternative that will help get us to that fabled future.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on August 23rd, 2016, 11:22 pm 

In the real world, when it comes to noise pollution I'd go solar and home turbines (or even no power and wax candles and blankets) before I would put up with more noise where I live. Seeing too many mistakes humans have made without testing the consequences (There might be significant species loss due to noise from highways alone come to find out), solar is the dream child. Wind is second to solar because wind is a byproduct of uneven solar heating. If the wind farm is good news, we can add to it. It looks like solar roadways are going to be a reality. Did you hear that I can't remember which but some midwestern state has the go ahead to resurface a whole highway. I just hope they don't have LEDs inside the tiles or we are facing more light pollution. I also think I read something that California is right behind with something in the works for a solar roadway planned too.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby Serpent on August 23rd, 2016, 11:27 pm 

I thought NIMBY applied to things like juvenile rehabilitation centers and waste reclamation projects.
I can understand not wanting the giant turbines next to one's house or barn, but solar panels are quiet and unobtrusive.
Who wouldn't want to be in control of their own electricity? No delivery charges (We pay about $5 a month for the back-up hydro we use on rainy days and $45 for delivery, taxes and debt retirement.) no surprises, no outages after every storm. (Last winter, our area had 10,000 homes without electricity for up to three days in the hard-to-reach places. We didn't even notice until one of us went out to the shed.

There are other alternatives, but those three - solar, wind and river - are most easily harnessable with the least damage to their environs.
It would be far more efficient - the grid loses 6% or more in the wires. Cheaper: none of that unwieldy infrastructure. Less vulnerable to weather and equipment failure. Easier and safer to maintain.
And a whole lot less ugly.
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Re: Climate Change Prevention

Postby zetreque on August 23rd, 2016, 11:34 pm 

Serpent » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:27 pm wrote:Who wouldn't want to be in control of their own electricity?

As weird as it is you would be surprised how many people don't like looking at solar panels or wind turbines. (I'm not one of them)

There are whole anti-wind turbine groups because apparently these farms have destroyed some peoples lives forcing them to move because they can't handle the noise. I haven't witnessed it myself but I'm open to the possibility that it could be very bad.
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