Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

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Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby -1- on January 20th, 2019, 9:13 am 

I went into the Canadian federal government's data bank (available to the general public for free) and researched the average monthly temperatures for ten physical points and ten date points (from 1867 to 2019) to find some correlation between data and the claim of global warming.

On the first trial, 99 percent of the data was declared or shown as "M", or missing.

On the second trial, with different physical and date data points, up to 99 percent of the data was missing.

On the third trial, ditto, as well as up to ten trials.

I chose the data points randomly each time.

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If the data is missing, it is not only impossible to verify the existence or effect of global warming; it is also impossible to establish such a vehement and far-reaching environmental conclusion.

So what have we been listening to and arguing about? If the data is not available to me, it is not available to scientists, either.

The whole global warming may be true, or may not be true, but there is no data to support its validity. Global warming is a myth, or its non-existence is a myth, but neither is supported by data, and therefore neither is supported by science.

You can repeat my research easily by accessing this website:

http://climate.weather.gc.ca/historical ... ata_e.html
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby PaulN on January 20th, 2019, 11:28 am 

You are aware that there thousands of other data sources, from around the globe, with both surface and upper atmosphere readings, that do show a rise in global temperature? Inference is also made from sudden acceleration in melting of glaciers and ice sheets, rises in ocean temperatures, etc.

You should read the guidelines here for posting, they are helpful and promote fact based chats. Also, I found half a dozen threads here on GW evidence and research. You may want to look?
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby PaulN on January 20th, 2019, 11:33 am 

https://gcmd.nasa.gov/

Access to data sets.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/earth-and- ... ate-change

Good overview of the science, so far.
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby TheVat on January 20th, 2019, 11:55 am 

This IPCC page also includes links to other public domain climate data sets...

http://www.ipcc-data.org/observ/clim/

Also, as anyone trained in climatology will explain, you use more than ten physical locations. You use thousands, as NASA, IPCC, NOAA, GHCN, et al do.

I encourage members to thoroughly study the techniques of climate science, if you are planning to present any alternative theories. Thank you.
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby TheVat on January 20th, 2019, 12:06 pm 

https://www.popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real

Another good source of links to research groups and data, with a clearly written summary.
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby Serpent on January 20th, 2019, 1:26 pm 

That page is a bit difficult to use, as it offers tiny raw bit of data, which are of use if you want to know what the temperature was on a New Brunswick hilltop on a particular day in 1960, but not much use in the big picture, until it's been mapped, graphed and plotted. Of course, not all the stations have been operation the same length of time, or operated and reported continuously. Missing data also includes "under review", which may mean it's being incorporated into one of the new, more accessible formats.
This one may be helpful.
https://climate-change.canada.ca/climate-library
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby Forest_Dump on January 20th, 2019, 2:02 pm 

Perhaps redundant given the other responses but my first thoughts on reading the OP was that there is no empirical data on testing the constant pull of gravity from my little town or the ten around us, going back 10000 years (as far as I know there has never been any, ever, posted on any Web site) but that would not allow me to dismiss the constant nature of gravit. You go with data available, and there is indeed tons, not fret about all the studies not done that perhaps could have been if there was more funding (or people thought was redundant).
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby -1- on January 21st, 2019, 5:56 am 

Please, don't think that I am putting the onus on you, my fellow posters, to find this data. It is not your responsibility, and I fully emphasize that. I am merely asking here for your help to find this data. If you can help, fine, if you can't, well, there is no hard feelings about that.
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby TheVat on January 21st, 2019, 10:49 am 

http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/

Try this.

Some of the links (those not inoperative due to the US government shutdown) do connect to summaries which save you spending thousands of hours required to crunch all the raw data.

Bear in mind that global warming is, erm, global, so it's useful to look at summaries for many nations and regions, rather than just a few spots in one country.
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby TheVat on January 21st, 2019, 10:55 am 

NOTICE: CHECKING LINKS, I FIND MANY GLOBAL DATASETS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE THROUGH NOAA. DUE TO THE US GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN THESE ARE TEMPORARILY OFFLINE. PLEASE WATCH NEWS AND TRY AGAIN WHEN THE SHUTDOWN ENDS (HOPEFULLY SOON).
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby -1- on January 21st, 2019, 12:15 pm 

TheVat » January 21st, 2019, 10:49 am wrote:http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/

Try this.

Some of the links (those not inoperative due to the US government shutdown) do connect to summaries which save you spending thousands of hours required to crunch all the raw data.

Bear in mind that global warming is, erm, global, so it's useful to look at summaries for many nations and regions, rather than just a few spots in one country.

If it's global, it's global. It should affect all parts of the globe. Therefore checking out any one part of the globe, since it is a valid and integral part of "all", should be enough.

I am finished with this thread. A vital and important post by me was deleted by the moderators. I can't abide with this.
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby TheVat on January 21st, 2019, 2:17 pm 

Sorry to hear that. When you joined, you read the guidelines and learned that pages and pages of data are to be posted as links, not cut/pasted into a post. I was happy to respond, however, and provide some information and observations. Checking one part of the globe is not a valid way of representing a complex global phenomenon. A very simple example to illustrate: in some areas, average temps have only increased a fraction of a degree, due to other meteorological effects (like the softening of the polar jet stream and resulting increase in the polar vortex phenomenon) and trends which locally do not represent the larger trend. In the Arctic, temp rises have been far more dramatic, but do not represent the global average (which is around 1.5 C.). In cities, the UHI effect can also cause a temperature rise that is quite steep at that local level, but doesn't represent overall trends in the larger region around the city. This is a field in which I have studied extensively and assisted in the publishing of research findings. So I'm aware of its complexities and how, as any scientist will tell you, "weather and climate are two different things."

I hope the Columbia link was of some use to you. You are here to learn and gather data, yes?
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Re: Environmental conclusions ought to be drawn on data.

Postby Serpent on January 21st, 2019, 4:31 pm 

TheVat » January 21st, 2019, 9:49 am wrote:http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/

Try this.

Thanks, I bookmarked that. The Canadian library one is also new to me and looks like a valuable intelligence asset (in parlance du jour). So the thread isn't without its dividends.
...
What we're to do with even more information on how fast Antarctica is disappearing, I'm not sure, but the libraries offer some local mitigation strategies that can be very useful indeed.
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