What is Intelligence?

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Re: What is Intelligence?

Postby Zanthius on April 12th, 2018, 2:19 pm 

BadgerJelly » April 12th, 2018, 10:20 am wrote:I know there is a rather strong "suggestion" that when it comes to IQ the curve is flater for men even though the average is identical.


Maybe this could explain it? ;)

Image

https://www.archania.org/biases/#Selection_bias_in_gender_studies

If all your genes are functional, you have way above average IQ. If all your genes are dysfunctional, you have way below average IQ.

Women are much more likely to have semifunctional combinations, which make them more prone to have average IQ.
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Re: What is Intelligence?

Postby mitchellmckain on April 12th, 2018, 2:59 pm 

Zanthius » April 12th, 2018, 1:58 am wrote:
mitchellmckain » April 11th, 2018, 8:43 pm wrote:The least educated people are thus those most unaware of how much they do not know and most easily take offense at the idea that another person knows something they do not.


I don't have the impression that less educated people often are more easily offended. Actually, some of the people I know of that are most easily offended are professors. There often comes pride and hubris with positions of authority.

mitchellmckain » April 11th, 2018, 8:43 pm wrote:Those in academia well understand that there is too much for one single person to know everything even in science, so we rely on specializations -- bowing to others when it comes to an area where they have taken the time to learn the facts.


But specialists don't necessarily know so much about the limits of their knowledge in other academic fields that they haven't specialized in, and could therefore suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect themselves, in other academic fields where they are amateurs.


But of course... the less educated frequently hide their offense by turning it into an accusation against those who know more with some nonsense about them not knowing "the limits of their knowledge." Of course there are exceptions (professors who overestimate their own competency) but those in academia tend to know who they are because they stand out as rather foolish. But the truth is that the less educated don't even know the right questions let alone the answers, and that probably contributes to the conflict. While they are harping on all these things people supposedly do not or cannot know, the scientists are going to get annoyed at the failure to correctly distinguish between the things we actually do know from the things we really do not know.
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Re: What is Intelligence?

Postby mitchellmckain on April 12th, 2018, 3:26 pm 

Serpent » April 11th, 2018, 1:52 pm wrote:
mitchellmckain » April 10th, 2018, 10:45 pm wrote:But there is a circularity in such words as "learn," "understand," "knowledge," and "think."

Then there is also a circularity in the words "chair", "couch" "bench", "ottoman"- because there is a collective term for those things : seating furniture. If you don't like "intelligence" as a collective term. say "cognitive functions of the brain."

You respond to things so quickly... before you even finish reading the whole post. It makes me wonder if you also respond before you even think about what you are posting.

Serpent » April 11th, 2018, 1:52 pm wrote:
"The problem is that when you try to pin down what these mean, you find that they refer to doing things that all living things do but just in a particularly human way.

Maybe not all living things - just the ones with brains. Why is that a problem?

Incorrect. When I say "all living things" that is exactly what I mean. It does not take a brain to do these things.

Serpent » April 11th, 2018, 1:52 pm wrote:
All living things have the ability to change themselves in order to handle the challenges of the environment.

Exclude fungi. plants and nematodes and put insects in the 'pending' file for now.

Incorrect. Fungi, plants, nematodes and insects all quite clearly have the ability to change themselves in order to handle a range of challenges from the environment.

Serpent » April 11th, 2018, 1:52 pm wrote:
It is just that when humans do we call this "learning." All living things find ways to process data from the environment in order to accomplish tasks, and it is only when humans do it that we call this "thinking" and "understanding."

We have to get over that dogma. It's thinking when a mouse does it, and when a pigeon does it and when an octopus does it. Once we accept that it's the same function, we can figure out ways to compare and measure, and maybe even spot differences in style.

It is a matter of definitions. Mice, pigeons, and octupii do not have the abstract capabilities of human language and so if that is how you define thinking then they do not think. But they certainly do process data from the environment in order to accomplish tasks, but then so do fungi, plants nematodes and insects. How is your restriction of this to neurology (or to a certain level of neurological organization) any different than the restriction of this to human language?

My point is not to require a redefinition of these words ("learn," "understand," "knowledge," and "think") according to either neurological function or the more general functions of living systems. My point was simply that our ideas of intelligence may not be as clear and as universal as previously assumed.
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Re: What is Intelligence?

Postby Serpent on April 12th, 2018, 5:36 pm 

mitchellmckain » April 12th, 2018, 2:26 pm wrote: Fungi, plants, nematodes and insects all quite clearly have the ability to change themselves in order to handle a range of challenges from the environment.

Incorrect. All living things change and adpat to the environment - except the ones that don't and die.
That's quite different from "the ability to change themselves", which presupposes the organism's awareness that the environment is 'challenging' them, the understanding that a change in themselves would solve the problem, autonomous volition and the capability to initiate a transformative action.
I don't believe that brainless organisms have any of those capabilities.
Moreover, adaptation is not thought, knowledge, learning, understanding or intelligence.

My point is not to require a redefinition of these words ("learn," "understand," "knowledge," and "think") according to either neurological function or the more general functions of living systems. My point was simply that our ideas of intelligence may not be as clear and as universal as previously assumed.

Our ideas may not as clear as we previously assumed, but if they're as meaningless as you persent here, we might as well dispense with language altogether.
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Re: What is Intelligence?

Postby BadgerJelly on April 16th, 2018, 1:28 pm 

Here is something for fluid intelligence:

http://similarminds.com/cgi-bin/int.pl
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