Ozone conversions, accurate?

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Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 7th, 2015, 10:02 pm 

Hey guys, haven't checked in in awhile, been slammed with projects.
Also, so glad the holidays are over and we can get back to reality.

So I'm still on the ozone generator project, and now need to test my generation levels.
I was hoping to run my figuring past you guys to see if I'm on the right track.

Here is the conversion chart by which I'm going:

Physical Properties, Standard conditions P = 1013.25 MB, T = 273.3 K
bullet Density of ozone , 2.14 kg/m3
bullet Density of oxygen, 1.43 kg/m3
bullet Density of air, 1.29 kg/m3
bullet Density of water, 1000 kg/m3
USEFUL CONVERSION FACTORS (for water)
bullet 1000 liters = 1 m3 = 264 US gallons
bullet 1 gal = 3.785 liters = 3785 ml
OZONE CONCENTRATION IN WATER
bullet 1 mg/l = 1 PPM O3 = 1 g O3/m3 water {By weight}
OZONE CONCENTRATION IN AIR BY VOLUME
bullet 1 g O3 / m3 = 467 PPM O3
bullet 1 PPM O3 = 2.14 mg O3/m3
OZONE CONCENTRATION IN AIR BY WEIGHT
bullet 100 g O3 / m3 = 7.8% O3
bullet 1% O3 = 12.8 g O3/m3
OZONE CONCENTRATION IN OXYGEN BY WEIGHT
bullet 100 g O3/m3 = 6.99% O3
bullet 1% O3 = 14.3 g O3/m3


My generator is a gas generator used in buildings and whatnot.

The room in which I will be testing is the following dimensions:
12.5' x 13.5' x 8'
Therefore I figure the cubic feet of this space is 1350, and the cubic meters is 38.2

The ozone tester I'm getting measures in ppm (0-20), and I need to convert to grams/hr (that's how the competitors rate theirs, so I've gotta dance to the same song).

If I run the ozone generator for 1 hour and the level reads 15ppm, my figuring is that 15 x 38.2 = 573mg/hr.

If I run the ozone generator for 5 minutes, I figure the level will be 11460mg/hr.

I'm by no means a chemist or mathematician, am I anywhere near the ballpark?


I really appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Cosmo
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 8th, 2015, 1:12 am 

The specific formula by which I'm figuring is:

OZONE CONCENTRATION IN AIR BY VOLUME
bullet 1 g O3 / m3 = 467 PPM O3
bullet 1 PPM O3 = 2.14 mg O3/m3
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 8th, 2015, 8:07 am 

If I run the ozone generator for 1 hour and the level reads 15ppm, my figuring is that 15 x 38.2 = 573mg/hr.


Cosmo Why didn't you also multiply by the "mass conversion factor" you calculated for O3 ppm?
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 8th, 2015, 8:32 am 

By the way, if you want a more accurate reading, you need to have a fan to continously mix up the air in the room to make sure that whatever you're measuring in one spot is close to the instantaneous concentration all around the room.
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 8th, 2015, 1:50 pm 

BioWizard » January 8th, 2015, 8:07 am wrote:
If I run the ozone generator for 1 hour and the level reads 15ppm, my figuring is that 15 x 38.2 = 573mg/hr.


Cosmo Why didn't you also multiply by the mass of O3 ppm?


Because I'm neither a mathematician nor a chemist lol.

I understand and agree with the fan idea.


Most importantly, before I initiate the purchase of the monitor that measures 1-20ppm, I need to know if my formula is correct. If not, I don't want to waste the money on a 0-20ppm monitor if what I actually need is one that measures in higher quantities.

If my formula is accurate (or there is a replacement formula that will work along the same lines), I believe I can use this monitor, and simply run the generator for the proper amount of time relative to the window of ppm readable.

Thanks,
Cosmo
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 8th, 2015, 9:29 pm 

The math isn't very tight but for your purposes should be an OK approximation. Don't forget the step I mentioned above though. You multiplied the ppm by the volume of the room, but you didn't multiple by the ppm-to-grams conversion factor.

If you ask me, I would do the whole thing entirely differently. How big is the generator? I would try to run it in a small airtight container for a few minutes and measure the O3 concentration in there. The whole room design just seems a bit sloppy.
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 8th, 2015, 10:08 pm 

That's what I want to know, how the math not tight?
Math is one of those things that I figure is either right or wrong, there is no "almost."

1,000,000,000 +1 does not equal 1,000,000,002, it's 1,000,000,001 and nothing else. lol


In the size room I'm using, I'm expecting to hit the monitor's ceiling in a minute or two (maybe less).
A small box would therefore not be reasonable.

Now, when you say "approximately", are you talking within 10% accuracy?
Because to be honest, the entire ozone industry is about the sloppiest thing across I've ever come.
Every single manufacturer of generators, every single site has errors, for example they're claiming to be "splitting oxygen atoms" instead of "molecules", etc. lol

Ozone generators are rated at say 5g/hr, 7g/hr, 12g/hr, etc.
So approximate is fine.


I honestly have no idea what you mean by: "You multiplied the ppm by the volume of the room, but you didn't multiple by the ppm-to-grams conversion factor."
Is there something left out in my figuring?
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 8th, 2015, 10:40 pm 

You said you ran your generator for one hour and got a reading of 15 ppm. According to you, 1 PPM O3 = 2.14 mg O3/m3. Thus, a 15 ppm reading in the room translates to 15 x 2.14 mg / m3. And the room is 38.2 m3. Thus the total amount produced in that hour is 15 x 38.2 x2.14=1,226.22 mg/hr (not 573)

Cosmo wrote:If I run the ozone generator for 1 hour and the level reads 15ppm, my figuring is that 15 x 38.2 = 573mg/hr.
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 8th, 2015, 10:51 pm 

I said the math is not tight because it assumes that the changing levels of O2 and O3 don't affect the air density. But since the O3 doesn't get that high and O2 remains overwhelmingly more abundant, your math is a good approximation :)
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 9th, 2015, 12:40 am 

BioWizard » January 8th, 2015, 10:40 pm wrote:You said you ran your generator for one hour and got a reading of 15 ppm. According to you, 1 PPM O3 = 2.14 mg O3/m3. Thus, a 15 ppm reading in the room translates to 15 x 2.14 mg / m3. And the room is 38.2 m3. Thus the total amount produced in that hour is 15 x 38.2 x2.14=1,226.22 mg/hr (not 573)

Cosmo wrote:If I run the ozone generator for 1 hour and the level reads 15ppm, my figuring is that 15 x 38.2 = 573mg/hr.


I didn't say I ran my generator and got any reading, as I have not yet purchased the monitor.
I was giving a "for instance if" scenario.
I'm trying to decide whether or not the monitor will do for me what I need it to, basically provide me with g/hr levels for marketing purposes.
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 9th, 2015, 12:45 am 

Furthermore, 1ppm cannot equal any specific measurement in grams, as it depends upon the dillution ratio given the cubic unit measurement of the space.

If ya don't mind, may I simply ask this, as I need to move forward with the purchasing of the monitor if it will serve my purpose.

Basically, will the monitor which measures ppm up to 20ppm, along with some conversion math, provide me with g/hr measurements?


I very much appreciate your time.
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 9th, 2015, 2:15 am 

I just revisited the conversion table, and am onboard with you now on the x 2.14/M3
I forgot about that part.

So, If I go with that equation, am I golden?

30 minutes filling that space with 15ppm would equate to appx. 2.5g/hr?
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 9th, 2015, 8:16 am 

Cosmo » 09 Jan 2015 12:40 am wrote:I didn't say I ran my generator and got any reading, as I have not yet purchased the monitor.
I was giving a "for instance if" scenario.
I'm trying to decide whether or not the monitor will do for me what I need it to, basically provide me with g/hr levels for marketing purposes.


What, you think I'm high or something? I know all that, and was just proceeding to analyze your hypothetical scenario. I just was too lazy to write a prelude and went straight to the math. Figured you already knew it was just a hypothetical :] ....
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 9th, 2015, 8:23 am 

Cosmo » 09 Jan 2015 02:15 am wrote:I just revisited the conversion table, and am onboard with you now on the x 2.14/M3
I forgot about that part.


Ok good cause I was getting tired of repeating that part lol. You went to lengths to get the conversion and then never used it!

So, If I go with that equation, am I golden?

30 minutes filling that space with 15ppm would equate to appx. 2.5g/hr?


Appx yes. Closer to 2.46 g/hr. All assuming your conversions were accurate (I didn't double check them) :]

See: http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/ppm ... illion.htm
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 9th, 2015, 8:48 am 

At this point I feel like I need to remind you again that ozone is toxic and the concentrations you're proposing to work with are quite dangerous. It's always better to keep yourself outside the experimental design.

What is your intended use for the ozone generator? Don't tell me air purification...
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby Cosmo on January 9th, 2015, 11:08 am 

Air purification, what do you think- I'm high or something? (haha)

Mold/smoke/disaster remediation.



Thanks Bio, I really appreciate your help on this.
This is such a great place to come for precise answers ; )
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Re: Ozone conversions, accurate?

Postby BioWizard on January 9th, 2015, 5:22 pm 

You're welcome, no problem :]
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