Electron Transition

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Electron Transition

Postby Biosapien on August 1st, 2016, 3:25 am 

Hi everyone,

After a very long time i am once again join you all to talk about science. No matter how much i get into the basics my mind keeps on pop up with lot of questions, imagine the following situation

The Oxygen atom pulls the electron from the Hydrogen atom because of high electronegativity, by doing so does Oxygen atom exert any energy on the S orbital of H atom, because i recently came to know that transition of electron from ground level to high energy level orbital needs an input of precise energy level. If this is true at which form energy does the oxygen exerts on H atom.
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Re: Exothermic Reaction

Postby Faradave on August 1st, 2016, 2:02 pm 

A hydrogen electron finds a lower energy state when bound to oxygen than when bound to another hydrogen (naturally occurring as H2). Thus, H2 burns quite vigorously in air (giving off energy) and can so be used as fuel. This is true even considering the change in state bound O2 electrons.

Change in enthalpy (ΔH, here H is enthalpy not hydrogen) for a reaction is defined as:
ΔH = energy used in bond breaking − energy released in bond making
Two H2 bonds and one O2 bond are broken to make four O-H bonds (in two H2O molecules).
ΔH = −483.6 kJ/mol of O2 consumed.

More positive protons in the nucleus of oxygen allow it to attract negative electrons more strongly than single hydrogen protons can. For this reason the size of an oxygen atom is not very different from a hydrogen.
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Re: Electron Transition

Postby Biosapien on August 1st, 2016, 11:40 pm 

Hi Faradave

Thank you for explaining my query but can you explicit the following sentence.

"A hydrogen electron finds a lower energy state when bound to oxygen than when bound to another hydrogen"

#1) In the above statement, are you trying to convey that, the P orbital of oxygen atom has lower energy level than the S orbital of Hydrogen atom. If so can you explain me how its possible, because i learned the S orbital has the lower energy than P orbital.

Also my question is other than electronegativity reason does the oxygen atom exert any energy to pull the electron from the hydrogen atom. For example here i consider the electron transition is the work done by oxygen atom. According to physics Work is equal to force * displacement * cos theta. My question is what is the force exerted by oxygen atom in order to cause the displacement of electron from the H to O atom. I am not worried about the angle of displacement here.
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Re: Electron Transition

Postby Faradave on August 2nd, 2016, 9:59 am 

Biosapien wrote:are you trying to convey that, the P orbital of oxygen atom has lower energy level than the S orbital of Hydrogen atom. If so can you explain me how its possible, because i learned the S orbital has the lower energy than P orbital.


What you learned is correct within atoms of the same element. It is not necessarily true atoms of different elements because they have, by definition of atomic number, different numbers of protons in their nuclei. This means differing strengths of nuclear attraction for surrounding electrons.

Bohr's planetary model of the atom is not perfect but will serve our purpose here. It sees electrons orbiting a nucleus like planets orbiting a star. The energy required to escape from a low orbit is greater than the energy required to escape from a high orbit of the same star. So we say the lower orbit has lower potential energy than the higher orbit.

But with two different mass stars, the energy required to escape an orbit from a low mass star is less than the energy required to escape an orbit of the same radius from a high mass star. The high mass star exerts a stronger (gravitational) hold on objects orbiting at a given radius. This is similar to how more protons electrically hold surrounding electrons.

Biosapien wrote:what is the force exerted by oxygen atom in order to cause the displacement of electron from the H to O atom

First, remember that for a water molecule, the hydrogen atom shares its electron with oxygen in a covalent bond. That electron has an orbital shared by both atoms, though it is more probable to find it near the oxygen atom. It is possible for an atom to give up its electron entirely as when an ionic bond (e.g. NaCl) dissociates in a solvent. In both cases, the main forces involved are those of electrical attraction between nuclear protons and surrounding electrons. There is also some electrical repulsion between multiple orbital electrons.
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Re: Electron Transition

Postby Biosapien on August 3rd, 2016, 11:46 pm 

Hi Faradave

May i know what is your final conclusion is, i mean from the above example are you trying to say that the mass of an atom has an effect on energy level of an orbital. Also may i know why electrons are orbiting the nucleus, since its the proton that attracts the electron why the electron is not getting into the nucleus rather than orbiting the nucleus.
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Re: Orbital Harmonics

Postby Faradave on August 4th, 2016, 10:23 am 

Biosapien wrote:are you trying to say that the mass of an atom has an effect on energy level of an orbital

No. Gravitation is much too weak to have a noticeable effect on such tiny particles, compared to the electric forces. I only meant to illustrate small scale electrical attraction between electron and proton is similar to large scale gravitational attraction between planet sized objects.

Biosapien wrote:may i know ... why the electron is not getting into the nucleus rather than orbiting the nucleus.

This is an advanced question that occupied scientists for years! The currently accepted answer is that particles (such as electrons) have a wave nature, which on the atomic scale is significant. Electrons can only occupy certain regions around a nucleus, where that wave fits with perfect overlap (in integer multiples). The drawing below shows how a simple wave can do this only at a certain distance from the center.

Orbital Harmonics 4.png
An electron's wavelength can only fit exactly (with perfect overlap) around a nucleus at certain certain levels from it (left). The waves don't line up at other levels, which are avoided (right).
Electrons have this requirement but their waves are much more complex, so they make cloud-like "orbitals " instead of the simple line-like orbit shown above.
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Re: Electron Transition

Postby Biosapien on August 4th, 2016, 11:51 pm 

When someone say electron is a wave what i want to understand is "What does the up and down hill of the wave represents,also i wonder what is the state/nature of force of attraction that exist between proton of the nucleus and the electron that spins around it. What i am trying to ask is, since we all know atom is mostly consist of empty space and i wonder whether this space actually contain any other waves which primarily exerted by the proton of nucleus to attract the electron. If that is true what is the interaction between the waves exerted by proton with the wave nature of the electron.
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Re: Q & A?

Postby Faradave on August 5th, 2016, 12:32 am 

Those are very good questions which you share with the world's experts. Science always has more questions than answers, so you might make a good scientist.

Biosapien wrote:What does the up and down hill of the wave represent

An electron's wave indicates the probability of finding the electron at a specific location. This suggests that an electron is not a very tiny stone of some sort. Instead, the electron is a collection of close locations where, if you probe, you are most likely to find something that we call a particle. Some of the locations have different probabilities than others and together a picture of this can be considered a wave. The amazing thing is that these waves exhibit wave behaviors (orbital harmonics, interference) similar to other, more familiar, kinds of waves.

If that's confusing, you understood it!

I can make up answers to your other questions but they would be my personal opinions. It will be better for you to develop your own answers, improving them as you learn. Right now, science has very good descriptions (i.e. mathematical) of what gravity and electromagnetism do but no explanations of why they do it, that would make common sense.
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Re: Electron Transition

Postby Biosapien on August 5th, 2016, 1:28 am 

#1 - Electron is a particle - which was i believed earlier

#2 - Electron behaves like both particle and wave - Sounds obscure for me

#3 - "An electron's wave indicates the probability of finding the electron at a specific location" . So this means the wave is nothing but the probability of finding the electron not the electron itself. Here Wave is the mathematical derivation rather than wave like sound waves or magnetic waves.

#4 - "An electron is not a very tiny stone of some sort. Instead, the electron is a collection of close locations where, if you probe, you are most likely to find something that we call a particle".

Let me imagine your above explanation with the following imagination,correct me if i am wrong

I am having a string of pearls, i consider the string as a wave and the pearls are the electron. Now if i arrange it in a wave shape i can see the up hill and down hill and both contains the pearls. The pearls here are many rather than single like in the case of H atom. Though its a single electron we are unable to find it in one particular position because its spin the nucleus at such a rate of speed. The effect of gravitational force on the electron is zero or close to zero. Why electron spin around the nucleus is something we don't know.

Just want to share the interesting stuff which i watched a while ago please find it through this link
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofp-OHIq6Wo" . The video is about filming of moving electron for the first time in Sweden. what i observe is there are some light and dark bands around the dense core region, if the light circles are the electron then what are those dark circle. Also why the movement of the electron in this video is only vertical rather than in horizontal way.
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