I believe in Jesus, but not in God. (Gnosticism explained)

[astrocat]

Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the way, and the light. That's good enough for me.
I don't think much of God, Allah, or any other creationists.
The Perfect One made God and a bunch of ohr spirits, all of them perfect in every way.

God looked at himself and thought he was as good as, if not better - than the Perfect One. That's vanity, and thus God became imperfect.

Of course, if you're imperfect, anything you make will be imperfect - as is our World. Sure, it's okay if you have money, but life stinks if you're broke.

What you have in this world, you won't have in the next. What you don't have, you will have. That's why it's better to be poor in this life - you'll be rich in the next!

[Gregorygregg1]

Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the way, and the light. That's good enough for me.
I don't think much of God, Allah, or any other creationists.
The Perfect One made God and a bunch of ohr spirits, all of them perfect in every way.

God looked at himself and thought he was as good as, if not better - than the Perfect One. That's vanity, and thus God became imperfect.

Of course, if you're imperfect, anything you make will be imperfect - as is our World. Sure, it's okay if you have money, but life stinks if you're broke.

What you have in this world, you won't have in the next. What you don't have, you will have. That's why it's better to be poor in this life - you'll be rich in the next!

Actually what Jesus said is "I am the way, the truth and the life.". I get the impression that even Christians still don't know what he was saying. Buddha would have understood him perfectly. As for God? I see God as a kind of scapegoat to protect us from having to look at ourselves too closely.

[astrocat]

Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the way, and the light. That's good enough for me.
I don't think much of God, Allah, or any other creationists.
The Perfect One made God and a bunch of ohr spirits, all of them perfect in every way.

God looked at himself and thought he was as good as, if not better - than the Perfect One. That's vanity, and thus God became imperfect.

Of course, if you're imperfect, anything you make will be imperfect - as is our World. Sure, it's okay if you have money, but life stinks if you're broke.

What you have in this world, you won't have in the next. What you don't have, you will have. That's why it's better to be poor in this life - you'll be rich in the next!

Actually what Jesus said is "I am the way, the truth and the life.". I get the impression that even Christians still don't know what he was saying. Buddha would have understood him perfectly. As for God? I see God as a kind of scapegoat to protect us from having to look at ourselves too closely.

Yes, but you must tell me where the first whisp of Hydrogen came from? Did it just happen?
Let me assure you, God made it. But Hydrogen is material and the Perfect One is spiritual. The Perfect One has nothing to do with material. Material things eventually degrade and revert to molecules. The creation of the first Hydrogen did not please the Perfect One.

Thanks for your input. I think 'life' is better than 'light' anyway so thanks again.

There's a story, told by Jesus - about this being taking him to the top of a mountain and offering him (Jesus) the world, if Jesus would adore him. Jesus, having turned his back on the material world, declined. But who was that being? - the devil!

So we see that according to Jesus the devil owns the world - the devil made it. But Jesus had been taught that God made the world. How then does he equate God with the Devil? Because that's exactly what we Gnostics believe - that God is the devil.

Have you read the Gospel of John, for example? Or any other of the evangelists? I read the Gospels and I'm a firm believer that Jesus is all you need.

The way I see it - when you die you come to these huge 'pearly gates' with a sign over these gates that says 'God's People.' And everyone is pushing and shoving trying to get in, but me - I'm not one for crowds - and this kid on crutches, we get pushed out of the crowd.

So we walk along the wall and we come to this really narrow entrance with a guy outside (it's always him or his girlfriend) and we squeeze in there. Jesus always said, 'Enter by the narrow gate,' and we do.

But you make your choice in this world, not in the next. One must be careful and untrusting.

[Gregorygregg1]

You are the consciousness of the universe. Take care to be conscious of what is real and what is not. Take no thought of the next world, you live in paradise. As John Bunyan said, "the mind is a place in itself and can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven."

[Marshall]

You are the consciousness of the universe...

Truthful words. They reminded me of a conversation we had here almost exactly one year ago:
http://sciencechatforum.spcfweb.com/vie ... 75#p185228

[Gregorygregg1]

Eckert Tolle voices the wishful thought that more and more of us are waking up. Perhaps he is right and there is hope for Humanity.

[astrocat]

You are the consciousness of the universe. Take care to be conscious of what is real and what is not. Take no thought of the next world, you live in paradise. As John Bunyan said, "the mind is a place in itself and can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven."

It's not good if this life is your paradise! All around the world there is suffering - how can you be in paradise knowing that? Maybe you're deluding yourself, maybe you're not in paradise.

You still haven't told me where the Hydrogen came from. I believe, in moments of vanity, you will produce Hydrogen. Some things are universal, some things are trans-dimentional.

[astrocat]

You are the consciousness of the universe...

Truthful words. They reminded me of a conversation we had here almost exactly one year ago:
http://sciencechatforum.spcfweb.com/vie ... 75#p185228

Truthful words? Slick, maybe, but not truthful. Jesus is the Truth. Let me know if you agree.

[astrocat]

Eckert Tolle voices the wishful thought that more and more of us are waking up. Perhaps he is right and there is hope for Humanity.

Jesus is the hope for Humanity. You got a better suggestion? And where did the original Hydrogen come from? I think you should tell everybody.

[Marshall]

Eckert Tolle voices the wishful thought that more and more of us are waking up. Perhaps he is right and there is hope for Humanity.

Jesus is the hope for Humanity. You got a better suggestion? And where did the original Hydrogen come from? I think you should tell everybody.

Ho hum :-D
you sound combative, maybe it helps your metabolism. What did you mean by "original" hydrogen?
By any chance would it be the hydrogen that was hot and pretty much filled space about 13.7 billion years ago?
If that is what you meant, let us know and we could try to offer a conjecture about it.

About hope for Humanity, I wouldn't try to answer with names of people who actually existed either in Galilee or North India or Ionia. It is too vague, all these guys' names. It's a serious matter, hope, and necessarily complex. Just saying a guy's name does not do it justice. Try this for an answer:

Hope for Humanity = an honest unselfish morality
a sense of community
acceptance of a certain amount of birth control
a shared sense of humor, love of language, history
faith in the laws of nature and curiosity about what they are

[astrocat]

Eckert Tolle voices the wishful thought that more and more of us are waking up. Perhaps he is right and there is hope for Humanity.

Jesus is the hope for Humanity. You got a better suggestion? And where did the original Hydrogen come from? I think you should tell everybody.

Ho hum :-D
you sound combative, maybe it helps your metabolism. What did you mean by "original" hydrogen?
By any chance would it be the hydrogen that was hot and pretty much filled space about 13.7 billion years ago?
If that is what you meant, let us know and we could try to offer a conjecture about it.

About hope for Humanity, I wouldn't try to answer with names of people who actually existed either in Galilee or North India or Ionia. It is too vague, all these guys' names. It's a serious matter, hope, and necessarily complex. Just saying a guy's name does not do it justice. Try this for an answer:

Hope for Humanity = an honest unselfish morality
a sense of community
acceptance of a certain amount of birth control
a shared sense of humor, love of language, history
faith in the laws of nature and curiosity about what they are

The hydrogen that floats round the universe - the most abundant and simplest of all the elements. That's what I'm talking about. As for the Age of The Universe, the Universe is so old (trillions of years old) it's not worth even speculating on its age.
You're going to say it came from a Big-Bang - but where did this Big-Bang come from?

Do tell?

[Watson]

you sound combative, maybe it helps your metabolism.

Combative is generally the attitude, but the why is anyones quess. Must be the frustration of knowing everything, in a Universe full of the rest of us. There must be other omniscient being out there in their dillusional states

The trouble with people who know everything, is it is hard to a thought across, as it is just tossed back at you as a denial. They have already made up their mind that their truth, based on limited facts and faulsehoods, is the only truth. So their is no way to have a conversation with them, unless you are just humouring them for your own assusement.

So, Astro dude, lets chat.

[Gregorygregg1]

Back to the original topic, it is quite rational to see Jesus as the archetype of what humans could be, without believing in God.

The people who become angry when their world view is questioned are also the consciousness of the universe. It is a complex consciousness, much of which is immersed in the self. The self tends to preserve its identity through intransigence. Perhaps this is neither good nor bad, but a stage in development that all must traverse, though it can be a barrier to communication. Astrocat is a smart guy. The origin of things is a topic worthy of his intellect, but perhaps the religious references are muddying his water.

[Marshall]

Back to the original topic, it is quite rational to see Jesus as the archetype of what humans could be, without believing in God.

The people who become angry when their world view is questioned are also the consciousness of the universe. It is a complex consciousness, much of which is immersed in the self. The self tends to preserve its identity through intransigence. Perhaps this is neither good nor bad, but a stage in development that all must traverse, though it can be a barrier to communication. Astrocat is a smart guy. The origin of things is a topic worthy of his intellect, but perhaps the religious references are muddying his water.

Yeah, I really liked that he was open to time (and the universe) extending back a trillion years. He isn't stuck on the idea that time "before the BB" (that is before the start of expansion) is meaningless.

Personally I don't think "the origin of things" is a worthy topic for anyone's intellect because it is too soon for humanity to be studying that problem. We aren't well enough prepared yet. We should first figure out what happened 13.7 billion years ago at the start of expansion, and we should deduce what came right before that and a few years earlier etc.

After we understand our own expanding cosmos considerably better than we do now, and have learned what we can about whatever led up to the start of expansion, then we might be in a better position to consider grander issues like "why does existence exist?" and "why are the operative physical laws what they are, instead of different?". Right now asking such questions is, I think, futile. I would not spend 5 minutes on it and would not advise Astrocat to do so either.

Part of science is timing---sensing which questions are answerable in our present condition, and ripe to be asked.

[astrocat]

you sound combative, maybe it helps your metabolism.

Combative is generally the attitude, but the why is anyones quess. Must be the frustration of knowing everything, in a Universe full of the rest of us. There must be other omniscient being out there in their dillusional states

The trouble with people who know everything, is it is hard to a thought across, as it is just tossed back at you as a denial. They have already made up their mind that their truth, based on limited facts and faulsehoods, is the only truth. So their is no way to have a conversation with them, unless you are just humouring them for your own assusement.

So, Astro dude, lets chat.

Hi Watson - combatative? Sorry, didn't mean to come across that way. No, I don't claim to know everything - if I did I'd be rich.

All I'm trying to do, and trying to do it nicely - is to explain Gnosticism.

We just have Jesus. We don't respect your God - or the God of Abraham. We think he is the devil. Satan is a puppet God waves in front of us - whooo! Do you want to go to this guy? No? Then you had better get down on your knees and worship me.

Jesus was taken to the top of a high mountain (he told this story himself) by the devil who offered him the whole world if Jesus would fall down on his knees and adore him. Now, according to Jesus, the world belonged to Satan. Presumably, Satan made it - But Jesus well knew it's God's world, and yet he called him Satan. That's what Jesus thought of God.

The Perfect One, our Heavenly Father, made God and a host of other spirits, all of them perfect in every way - and perfectly free to reject the Heavenly Father - which is what God did.

God made the original hydrogen - I don't have any problem with that - except perhaps it did not please the Perfect One. Hydrogen, you see, Watson, is material, it's matter - and it's imperfect. Hydrogen was used for bombs once - that's not hydrogen's fault, but hydrogen can killl, and that makes it imperfect. You and I can kill - we're not supposed to, but we have that ability. We're imperfect. Anything perfect lives forever.

God made this imperfect world that will soon self-destruct.

[astrocat]

Back to the original topic, it is quite rational to see Jesus as the archetype of what humans could be, without believing in God.

The people who become angry when their world view is questioned are also the consciousness of the universe. It is a complex consciousness, much of which is immersed in the self. The self tends to preserve its identity through intransigence. Perhaps this is neither good nor bad, but a stage in development that all must traverse, though it can be a barrier to communication. Astrocat is a smart guy. The origin of things is a topic worthy of his intellect, but perhaps the religious references are muddying his water.

I myself am an O.G. That means I am an Old Gregorian. But that's not here or there.

I like what you say. The self tends to preserve it's identity through intransigence? Is that me? Intransigent?

I'm not religious, actually - I'm a heretic. Gnosticism is a heresy - they used to burn us at the stake. Thank goodness that's over! St Francis of Assissi used to turn us over to the authorities for cash money. True story.

Gnosis, what we have - is the root word of the word 'knowledge,' and we know things other people don't. We recognise that killing everybody in the world if they disagree with you, except for the only person who still believed - Noah - is not how you change peoples minds

God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son," Abraham balked. "If you loved me you would honour my request," God said. So Abraham got his son ready, and was just about to do the deed, when God says, "Just kidding, Abe." That's some sense of humour, eh? And that's the God you worship - oh, I forgot - you don't.

But on that subject, you still should explain to me where the original hydrogen came from. I've asked you several times now. Why won't you tell me?

[astrocat]

Back to the original topic, it is quite rational to see Jesus as the archetype of what humans could be, without believing in God.

The people who become angry when their world view is questioned are also the consciousness of the universe. It is a complex consciousness, much of which is immersed in the self. The self tends to preserve its identity through intransigence. Perhaps this is neither good nor bad, but a stage in development that all must traverse, though it can be a barrier to communication. Astrocat is a smart guy. The origin of things is a topic worthy of his intellect, but perhaps the religious references are muddying his water.

Yeah, I really liked that he was open to time (and the universe) extending back a trillion years. He isn't stuck on the idea that time "before the BB" (that is before the start of expansion) is meaningless.

I think your Big Bang is silly. We're not going out - we're going in. I thought I had pretty well proved it. Ah well...

Personally I don't think "the origin of things" is a worthy topic for anyone's intellect because it is too soon for humanity to be studying that problem. We aren't well enough prepared yet. We should first figure out what happened 13.7 billion years ago at the start of expansion, and we should deduce what came right before that and a few years earlier etc.

That 13.7 figure came from a straight line graph. The expansion is speeding up - it should be a slow start (Big Wheeze) way more than 13.7 billion years. Trillions, more like!

After we understand our own expanding cosmos considerably better than we do now, and have learned what we can about whatever led up to the start of expansion, then we might be in a better position to consider grander issues like "why does existence exist?" and "why are the operative physical laws what they are, instead of different?". Right now asking such questions is, I think, futile. I would not spend 5 minutes on it and would not advise Astrocat to do so either.

Part of science is timing---sensing which questions are answerable in our present condition, and ripe to be asked.

The operative physical laws are what holds science together. Mathematics has no such laws - that's why Math isn't a science. I love the operative physical laws - the one for example that says if you get enough stuff together in one place it will form a Black Hole. (Why should it explode?) It wouldn't.

But this is off subject. I'm Gnostic and proud of it. What do you believe in, Marshal?

[Athena]

Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the way, and the light. That's good enough for me.
I don't think much of God, Allah, or any other creationists.
The Perfect One made God and a bunch of ohr spirits, all of them perfect in every way.

God looked at himself and thought he was as good as, if not better - than the Perfect One. That's vanity, and thus God became imperfect.

Of course, if you're imperfect, anything you make will be imperfect - as is our World. Sure, it's okay if you have money, but life stinks if you're broke.

What you have in this world, you won't have in the next. What you don't have, you will have. That's why it's better to be poor in this life - you'll be rich in the next!

Actually what Jesus said is "I am the way, the truth and the life.". I get the impression that even Christians still don't know what he was saying. Buddha would have understood him perfectly. As for God? I see God as a kind of scapegoat to protect us from having to look at ourselves too closely.

Truly I think we need to study Buddhism before attempting to be an authority on Jesus. The goal needs to be setting aside our present consciousness, while learning of past consciousness.

Also when understanding Jesus, I think we need to keep in mind the bible was written by Greeks and the Greeks were excellent myth writers. Isis (Egyptian Goddess) was the bread and water, long before Jesus was the bread and wine. I am saying the bible is poetic and borrows from many sources. Jesus is "the word" or logos, a Greek word meaning "reason, the controlling force of the universe". Jesus was intentionally deified and we might want to understand this historically rather than literally.

[Gregorygregg1]

[quote="astrocat"t]
But on that subject, you still should explain to me where the original hydrogen came from. I've asked you several times now. Why won't you tell me?[/quote]
If you are asking me for my hypothesis, I have one, as I suspect do many who frequent these forums. But you know hypotheses, they're like Chinese food. Eat one now and in half an hour you'll be hungry for another. From my point of view, hydrogen is continually being produced by the stretching of dimension by the hypothetical singularity. The existence of the binary opposites density and dimension creates and sustains matter. The original hydrogen likely came from the chance encounter between the universe of dimension and the universe of density. There are a thousand answers to your question, probably all wrong.

[quote="Athena"t]Also when understanding Jesus, I think [flash=]we[/flash] need to keep in mind the bible was written by Greeks and the Greeks were excellent myth writers. Isis (Egyptian Goddess) was the bread and water, long before Jesus was the bread and wine. I am saying the bible is poetic and borrows from many sources. Jesus is "the word" or logos, a Greek word meaning "reason, the controlling force of the universe". Jesus was intentionally deified and we might want to understand this historically rather than literally.[/quote]

I'm an Isis guy myself. Isis or Gaia have far more appeal than the bearded guy. Personally I rate Jesus right up there with Buddha, Ghandi and Henry David Thoreau. We have not been good at remembering our wise women.

[astrocat]

Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the way, and the light. That's good enough for me.
I don't think much of God, Allah, or any other creationists.
The Perfect One made God and a bunch of ohr spirits, all of them perfect in every way.

God looked at himself and thought he was as good as, if not better - than the Perfect One. That's vanity, and thus God became imperfect.

Of course, if you're imperfect, anything you make will be imperfect - as is our World. Sure, it's okay if you have money, but life stinks if you're broke.

What you have in this world, you won't have in the next. What you don't have, you will have. That's why it's better to be poor in this life - you'll be rich in the next!

Actually what Jesus said is "I am the way, the truth and the life.". I get the impression that even Christians still don't know what he was saying. Buddha would have understood him perfectly. As for God? I see God as a kind of scapegoat to protect us from having to look at ourselves too closely.

Truly I think we need to study Buddhism before attempting to be an authority on Jesus. The goal needs to be setting aside our present consciousness, while learning of past consciousness.

Also when understanding Jesus, I think we need to keep in mind the bible was written by Greeks and the Greeks were excellent myth writers. Isis (Egyptian Goddess) was the bread and water, long before Jesus was the bread and wine. I am saying the bible is poetic and borrows from many sources. Jesus is "the word" or logos, a Greek word meaning "reason, the controlling force of the universe". Jesus was intentionally deified and we might want to understand this historically rather than literally.

Nice to hear from you, Athena. I'm sure the Gospels were written in Greek. But there is enough on Jesus to enable us to believe in him. Do you believe in God, Athena, or something else? I would like to know.
I'm trying to explain Gnosticism, but it's hard. Have you read any of this thread?

[astrocat]

[quote="astrocat"t]
But on that subject, you still should explain to me where the original hydrogen came from. I've asked you several times now. Why won't you tell me?[/quote]
If you are asking me for my hypothesis, I have one, as I suspect do many who frequent these forums. But you know hypotheses, they're like Chinese food. Eat one now and in half an hour you'll be hungry for another. From my point of view, hydrogen is continually being produced by the stretching of dimension by the hypothetical singularity. The existence of the binary opposites density and dimension creates and sustains matter. The original hydrogen likely came from the chance encounter between the universe of dimension and the universe of density. There are a thousand answers to your question, probably all wrong.

[quote="Athena"t]Also when understanding Jesus, I think [flash=]we[/flash] need to keep in mind the bible was written by Greeks and the Greeks were excellent myth writers. Isis (Egyptian Goddess) was the bread and water, long before Jesus was the bread and wine. I am saying the bible is poetic and borrows from many sources. Jesus is "the word" or logos, a Greek word meaning "reason, the controlling force of the universe". Jesus was intentionally deified and we might want to understand this historically rather than literally.[/quote]

I'm an Isis guy myself. Isis or Gaia have far more appeal than the bearded guy. Personally I rate Jesus right up there with Buddha, Ghandi and Henry David Thoreau. We have not been good at remembering our wise women.[/quote]

But did any of your wise-men offer his life for his cause? To me, thatmakes all the difference.
As for your explanation of the origin of the first hydrogen, not bad - but not good either. Dimension and density.
I tink God made4 it, but that it didn't please the Perfcect One. I'm a bit pushed for time, but thanks for answeering my question to you.

[Gregorygregg1]

Thoreau and Ghandi bith went to prison for the principle of nonviolent resistance. That they were not put to death is beside the point. They were one with Buddha and Jesus...and with you and me.

[Athena]

Nice to hear from you, Athena. I'm sure the Gospels were written in Greek. But there is enough on Jesus to enable us to believe in him. Do you believe in God, Athena, or something else? I would like to know. I'm trying to explain Gnosticism, but it's hard. Have you read any of this thread?

This thread is about Jesus and what you believe. I do not think what I believe belongs in your thread.

However, I will say many die for what they believe, and I feel sad that the death of only one is recognized as a meaningful death.

[gotopogo]

now sense this is philosophy im going to start asking stupid pointless questions... how do you know vanity is an imperfection and not just a trait that separates you from the rest of the beings on earth along with going by that religion god says hes the only god so its not im thinking hes better then others its him stating hes the only god. how is this vanity?

[Gregorygregg1]

now sense this is philosophy im going to start asking stupid pointless questions... how do you know vanity is an imperfection and not just a trait that separates you from the rest of the beings on earth along with going by that religion god says hes the only god so its not im thinking hes better then others its him stating hes the only god. how is this vanity?

Vanity is an imperfection because it separates you from the rest of the beings on Earth. The god who said "I am The Lord, thy God. Thou shall have no other gods before me." was the God of Isrial. The God of the Jews. But there are many religions and many gods. Not all gods inspire the same fervor, but they are all equal in the eyes of the law. All deserve the same Disrespect.

[gotopogo]

shit sorry i left my account logged on and my roommate went on it

[Don Juan]

Jesus said, 'I am the truth, the way, and the light. That's good enough for me.
I don't think much of God, Allah, or any other creationists.
The Perfect One made God and a bunch of ohr spirits, all of them perfect in every way.

God looked at himself and thought he was as good as, if not better - than the Perfect One. That's vanity, and thus God became imperfect.

Of course, if you're imperfect, anything you make will be imperfect - as is our World. Sure, it's okay if you have money, but life stinks if you're broke.

What you have in this world, you won't have in the next. What you don't have, you will have. That's why it's better to be poor in this life - you'll be rich in the next!

Does this mean that you believe in some of Jesus' statements, and you do not believe the rest?

[astrocat]

Thoreau and Ghandi bith went to prison for the principle of nonviolent resistance. That they were not put to death is beside the point. They were one with Buddha and Jesus...and with you and me.

THoreau and Ghandi were imprisoned? But released, right? I knw Ghandi was a pain inthe backside for the British in India, but not much about Thoreau.

Jesus died a horrible death. If you love this world, you won't live forever - but if you hate your life, you will be granted eternal life. That's what Jesus said.

You have to hate this life to live forever. Makes sense to me.

Organised religion will tell you, you're evil and the world is beautiful - that's why you don't fit in. But I say, as does Gnosticism, that this world is evil, and you're beautiful.

Which statement do you agree with, Greg?

[astrocat]

now sense this is philosophy im going to start asking stupid pointless questions... how do you know vanity is an imperfection and not just a trait that separates you from the rest of the beings on earth along with going by that religion god says hes the only god so its not im thinking hes better then others its him stating hes the only god. how is this vanity?

Vanity is an imperfection because it separates you from the rest of the beings on Earth. The god who said "I am The Lord, thy God. Thou shall have no other gods before me." was the God of Isrial. The God of the Jews. But there are many religions and many gods. Not all gods inspire the same fervor, but they are all equal in the eyes of the law. All deserve the same Disrespect.

This reminds me, God is a jealous God, and vengeful with it - none of these characteristics were shown by Jesus, who only preached a message of love and forgiveness.

Vanity is an imperfection. In that you are right.

[astrocat]

Nice to hear from you, Athena. I'm sure the Gospels were written in Greek. But there is enough on Jesus to enable us to believe in him. Do you believe in God, Athena, or something else? I would like to know. I'm trying to explain Gnosticism, but it's hard. Have you read any of this thread?

This thread is about Jesus and what you believe. I do not think what I believe belongs in your thread.

However, I will say many die for what they believe, and I feel sad that the death of only one is recognized as a meaningful death.

Yes, Ahena - but if I knew what you believed it would help me in our communications.

I assume you believe in God? That's the God of Moses (and Abraham) - the ne who told Abraham to kill his son, and then said he was just kidding. Some sense of humour, eh?

And he death of one? Jesus didn't die - he's perfect. He rose again. That proves he was the son of the Perfect One, to me.