Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

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Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

Postby hyksos on May 13th, 2018, 12:12 am 

Back to the Religion Section of the Forum again. We play the fun game of painting ourselves into the corner with creationists and seeing what kinds of neat-o conclusions pop out.


The first rule of the game is to totally agree with the creationist's terms. We presume that human beings are the expressed designed creation of a deity and its supernatural interventions on earth -- whom I will name "Creator" with a capital C. Whatever attributes are near-universally present in human beings therefore must have been explicitly designed into humans from their inception as a species. Whatever humans do, Creator designed.

The question is not whether human sexuality is a flawed designed choice on the part of the Creator, but now it is rather : How flawed is it?

When designing human sexuality to his order, the Creator was clearly either absent, asleep at the wheel, or "on drugs".


Anal sex was investigated in this thread viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34405 Therein I tried to marginalize it as some sort of rare perversion that flies in the face of normal human behavior, only to fail in that endeavor against a wall of neutral facts.

Correctly Designed Sexuality would follow some, all or even more than the attributes found in this list :
  • When women are raped, their body would disallow a pregnancy due to some (unknown) mechanism where, if it is a "legitimate rape" the body would have a way to quote, "shut that whole thing down".
  • Men can only muster an erection around someone they love and trust, and in a situation of comfort and safety.
  • Women would find monogamy desirable, and sex would continue in most satisfactory ways with one-on-one experiences with a single man.
  • Men would be caring, want to have children, and become attached to whichever woman they happen to impregnate.
  • The anus would be universally reviled as an erogenous zone, avoiding a litany of HIV infections, urinary tract infections, and other general nastiness. This revulsion appears even to be "evolutionary advantageous". But apparently the Creator works in mysterious ways.
  • The male testicles would be inside the body tucked away in a safe place.


If the Creator had half an ounce of decency, he could have designed homo sapiens with the above attributes, ensuring thousands of years of safety, monogamous, nuclear families and their happy marriages. But the Creator is either crazy, incompetent, or malicious in this topic. (Accepting the creationists' terms), this is instead what the Creator decided he would actually do when designing human sexuality :

  • Despite some crotchety old Senator's declarations about "shutting that whole thing down" --- Women can become pregnant from a violent rape.
  • Childbirth is equal parts dangerous and painful. Women died from childbirth frequently, all the way up to the 19th century, AD.
  • Men can only muster an erection around someone they love and trust, and in a situation of comfort and safety. That would be nice. Now we will visit a brothel in Kolkata. We need not travel, you can watch documentaries about them on youtube. HEre is a woman in Ukraine who is addicted to heroin. She supports the habit by getting fast cash from her Johns.
    ukraineaddict_sz.png


  • Women would find monogamy desirable, and sex would continue in most satisfactory ways with one-on-one experiences with a single man. Instead what is desirable is closer to : one man in this hand, one man in the other hand, and a third man in my mouth.

  • Men would be caring, want to have children, and become attached to whichever woman they happen to impregnate. Real men in the real world act like alpha male deer with a mating season that goes 365 days. They desire to keep every female in their "territory" pregnant at all times. In the words of some Russian wives "men will naturally cheat.. it's how they are designed." While we are at it, through history harems existing in every major civilization -- even Charlemagne had a harem : he was a Christian King in France. Look it up.
  • The anus would be universally reviled as an erogenous zone, (for reasons previously listed). Instead some 9 out of 10 camgirls ram things in there that should never fit. The result is a chain of orgasms of unspecified number.
  • The male testicles would be inside the body tucked away in a safe place. Nope. The alpha males have to impregnate every female in their immediate territory.. so males have to produce around 300 million sperm cells per day. So much sperm would die from body heat. The human male (apparently) designed this way as well, so we all walk around with a scrotum that hangs inconveniently on the outside.
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Re: Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

Postby hyksos on May 13th, 2018, 12:21 am 

I have not even mentioned the now documented phenomenon of menses synchrony in women. The basic gist is thus: You have a bunch of women working together in a work place, their periods will begin to synch up.

The first theory to explain this is that there is a Matriarch "Trend-setter" who all the young girls are synchronizing to, based on pheromone signalling.

This theory was abandoned in light of the evidence. Experiments showed again and again, when it comes to menstruation synchronizing, there is no such thing as an "alpha female" in humans.

Having scrapped that theory , the door is open to more "exotic" explanations having to do with competition among ancient humans. The competition would look like a race to become pregnant from the the "Alpha Male" of the tribe. If this theory is the correct theory, this has enormous consequences both in biology , and even more dire consequences to creationism.

We would have liked to have dispensed with men being "international players" as some sort of recent perversion brought on by popular culture, movies, rock music, and other media. But if women have this aspect innately, genetically, then that argument becomes impossible to shore up.

One consequence of this theory is that human men do actually cheat as the natural course of events, and have been cheating with multiple sex partners for millions and millions of years. Whether this be due to design by a creator, or from evolutionary pressures, the theory suggests women have a innate biological aspect to respond to a male who "sleeps around" amongst them.
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Re: Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

Postby hyksos on May 31st, 2018, 3:51 am 

Christians hold to a doctrine that man was designed by God. So if man was designed by the creator, then that creator also designed all aspects of mankind. Both mind and body were the explicit designs. Logically, God also designed mankind's sexuality. But it is an unspoken rule among the parishioners, that when God designed human sexuality, he was either vicious, drunk, crazy, or asleep at the wheel.

Every single person sitting in the pews in every little church is aware of this problem. The Human-sexuality-was-designed-badly Problem. They take real steps (and spedn real money) in order to hem their doctrines and the behaviors of their pious members around it.

John Hagee is a regular icon of televangelism and appears inextricable with 700-club type of Bible-belt christianity. Hagee is, by all measures, a so-called Mega-church Pastor.

Hagee, in some of his more rousing sermons has said :
Using sex to manipulate your husband is witchcraft and it sin! So don't do it!

Hagee had been building up to this climax and practically yelled this sentence into the microphone. You could hear a pin drop in the audience.

A recent story emerged on reddit of a girl living in the Bible Belt. Her ultra-religious parents sent her off into some sort of discipline "re-education" Jesus-Camp thing. There she was nearly beaten and tortured by the camp counselors. She reported that they were brainwashing her to never have any bodily contact with boys or men until she was married. The way she described the ordeal at the camp sounded like someone describing Basic Training in the Marine Corp. Her brother had to help her escape from the secluded camp, and guns were involved and other threats of violence. (She was essentially kidnapped by the camp and told she would be killed if she tried to leave)

This indicates the extreme lengths (distressingly extreme) that Christians in the united states are going to stop teen girls from having premarital sex. They are not just spending money, they are setting up strange half-legal Disciplinary Camps to combat teen sexual behavior.



Biblical References to the "The Problem"
Are there specific bible passages which extrapolate or expand upon The Problem of Human Sexuality?

Well, perhaps. Among some European sects of Catholicism, there is an interpretation of the Genesis chapters 2 and 3, referring to the tree that contains fruit that is forbidden by God for Adam and Eve to eat.

Many catholics interpret the tree and its forbidden fruit in highly euphemistic terms. "The eating from the tree whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat" was actually a euphemism for "Adam and Eve had sex and enjoyed it". This interpretation is further bolstered by the fact that they have to cover their genitals with leaves and "hide" their nakedness from God. There is no clear reason why merely eating some fruit would cause this behavior... unless...

A more explicit reference to human sexuality is seen in the Bible in Genesis chapters 17 through 19. Lot visits the kingdom of Sodom with his sons and several daughters. A group of homosexuals attempts to rape his sons, even turning down an offer of his daughters. A couple angels appear in the city and tell Lot to depart before the city is destroyed by a fire and apparently falling "brimstone".

Sodom is mentioned again in the first chapter of the book of Jude, a book from the New Testament.

Jude 1:7 wrote:Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"Going after strange flesh" is interpreted by many sects of christianity to mean they were engaging in not only homosexuality, but bestiality.

Conclusions/Reflections
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, being forbidden appears very early in the Judeo-Christian bible story arch. Sodom and Gomorrah are mentioned several times in various sections in the "back books" of the new testament.

  • "defile". occurs 71 times in the Bible
  • "defiled". occurs 36 times in the Bible.
  • "fornication." 36 times.
  • "whore". 14 times.
  • "whoredom" 22 times.
  • "lewdness" 16 times.

Consider the book of Ezekiel. The cities of Samaria were basically "party towns" located in Egypt, which were visited by Assyrian military men. The city likely had the most famous brothels in the region, and Assyrian men would travel there for that purpose. In chapter 23, the euphemistic language referring to those town borders on the pornographic.
Ezekiel 23:8 wrote:Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.


So human sexuality occurs very early in the Bible, and stretches from front cover to back. Always presented in pejorative terms, always presented as being un-Godlike. Pardon the pun, we might be temporarily seduced into concluding that the entire plot arch of the Western Christian Bible is human sexuality.

This conclusion is premature. A wise thinker (who does not exist on this forum) many years ago once drew a more penetrating insight about Christianity as a religion. Having read this years ago, I can only paraphrase him now. He concluded that -- the entire plot-arch of the Christian Religion centers around Sex and Death.

This conclusion is both penetrating and revealing at the same time. Christianity was never about angels, Gods, transcendence, otherworldly realms, demons or The "Heavens" -- or what have you. What is really being "addressed" by the Bible is wholly ground-based earth-based provincial concerns in purely human affairs. The Bible and its accompanying religious philosophy are primarily aimed on the topics of Death and Sex of people. Human people on Earth.
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Re: Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

Postby hyksos on May 31st, 2018, 9:43 pm 

For the benefit of passersby, I will translate the Shakespearean of Ezekiel into modern english.

Ezekiel 23:20 wrote:For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

= "She was particularly fond of married men, who had penises like mules, and who ejaculated as horses do."
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Re: Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

Postby hyksos on June 6th, 2018, 1:22 am 

The Judaeo-Christian Bible contains many angry tirades aimed squarely at human sexual activity.

The most angry tirade is likely found in Jeremiah ch.3

Another notable mention is Ezekiel ch.23

I will post others as I find them. These quotations, their size, their clarity, and most importantly, their sheer numbers in the Bible -- these will act as evidence in support of a larger conclusion.

The conclusion is that the Bible is clear in that human sexuality is profoundly flawed. The Bible constitutes a collection of indignant, angry, moralizing tirades at "fornication" "whoredom" "defilement" and . Words which appear in almost universal proximity to the word "wicked" and "wickedness".
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Re: Human Sexuality. bug or feature?

Postby mitchellmckain on June 6th, 2018, 11:51 am 

hyksos » June 6th, 2018, 12:22 am wrote:The Judaeo-Christian Bible contains many angry tirades aimed squarely at human sexual activity.

The most angry tirade is likely found in Jeremiah ch.3

Another notable mention is Ezekiel ch.23

The tirade is not against sexuality but against adultery as a metaphor for the unfaithfulness of Israel straying from the "true faith" to the religions of neighboring nations/cultures.

Thus one might that take this as a cause for condemnation in the name of religious tolerance, until you find out that many of these neighboring religions were practicing such things as the human sacrifice of children and temple prostitution. Even religious tolerance of the free societies of the modern world must have limits. Religious liberty cannot justify actions which trample over the liberties and well being of others.

hyksos » June 6th, 2018, 12:22 am wrote:The conclusion is that the Bible is clear in that human sexuality is profoundly flawed. The Bible constitutes a collection of indignant, angry, moralizing tirades at "fornication" "whoredom" "defilement" and . Words which appear in almost universal proximity to the word "wicked" and "wickedness".

YES, the Bible sees something to be seriously flawed in human sexuality, but not that sexuality itself is bad or wrong. And it is not just the Bible which sees these flaws, because most people understand that infidelity is wrong, while rape and the sexual abuse of children are very wrong. This with many medical conditions point to serious inconsistencies with the creationist view of man being a product of design.
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