Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Discussions that deal with moral issues. Key questions in ethics include: How should one live? What is right (or wrong) to do? What is the best way for humans to live?

Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby 571- on April 21st, 2014, 7:11 pm 

Just to clarify (because the above can be taken as naivety..)

I realize all societies need neutral judges. So in traditional societies these are sometimes people like elders, who hear all sides of an issue and then make a decision.

That's good form.

But democracy doesn't really work if citizens are neutral. 'Power of the people' requires participation of citizens, and participation means forming a position based on your situation and voicing it.

Resigning to 'I don't know' or 'different perspectives, at different times' - even though they may conflict - to remain popular or maintain social harmony undermines politics at the ground level.

Politics just becomes like a joke, or popularity contest. And to be popular is to a hold fashionable position - which is sometimes no position - not one reflecting people's actual wishes, desires, ideals, needs, etc...

This is not a personal attack on anyone, it's a general statement and applies to many people who I observe involve themselves in 'politics'...

Occasionally, I engage in serious politics at my university, and while I don't go out of my way to do it, I enjoy making a spectacle of the incompetence and ignorance of popularity political wannabes.

Despite popular inclinations for personally likeable politicians, devastating logic never fails to humiliate and dominate such persons when they can't otherwise escape. It does command respect and influence (as it should), but not enduringly...due to the prevailing social structure and deeply engrained political norms that suppress those visceral responses to legitimate authority in audiences and citizens

Because the nature of politics in the system overall is one of personal likeability, these defeats have little long-lasting impact...

The value of debate has been taken out of politics. The strongest argument no longer governs decisions.

Of course it never did :) Not since the rise of civilization anyway, and thus separation of social and political spheres such that politicians are protected from being held at gunpoint for injustice.

Well played polly's...well played.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Hendrick Laursen on May 5th, 2014, 6:16 am 

Upon Values

It seemed a good discussion, the porno one. Many participating and trying to make the others think like 'em or at least just keeping the ball rolling.
We, human race, have come a far long way.
we've migrated from Caves to Houses
We have improved a lot.
We have made our lives easier.
We have done the best we could.
But is this our best?
Why our system of values has collapsed?
1) Believing in God was once a value for some and now isn't.
2) Believing in Bible was once a value for many and now isn't.
3) Believing in Moralities was a Value but isn't now for many.
Yes,
I accuse you, the pro-porno people, to have lost your values.

How far will you go?
Will our children add these sentences?
4) Defending your motherland was a value and now isn't.
5) Brotherhood was a value but isn't.
6) Abstinence from homicide, killing others, was a value but now isn't.
We kill the ones we wish.
.......
(Of course some of these again aren't values for some)
There was a value to keep a good name. "Bitch" was an insult. But some are proud to carry that name now.

Maybe "Motherf**ker" will be like that in future.
"faggot" was an insult. But today some have pride-parades for being "faggots"

How far are we to go?
Will HUMANITY value be erased, too?

I ask you, western culture, what have you gained, instead of these?

Millions of people were killed throughout the history
To support their values.

Why "HAVING VALUES" have turnes this valueless?

Personally speaking, I think we're reaching an animal-life.
Where you're free to do everything you wish
Have sex as you wish "If Condom is used"

Modern human has disrobed himself of every responsibility he had
Has disrobed of Religion, his responsibility to God
Has disrobed of moralities, his responsibility to other people
And has disrobed of Values, his responsibility for himself.
Sir H. R. Fat'hi, Complete Works Vol 12, page 566.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Dave_Oblad on May 5th, 2014, 11:37 pm 

Hi Hendrick,

1) Believing in God was once a value for some and now isn't.
2) Believing in Bible was once a value for many and now isn't.
3) Believing in Moralities was a Value but isn't now for many.
4) Defending your motherland was a value and now isn't.
5) Brotherhood was a value but isn't.
6) Abstinence from homicide, killing others, was a value but now isn't.

Load of Crap.

You speak from a self perceived position of Moral Authority. Let's not forget the destruction of the indigenous populations of South and North America's by the Righteous followers of God. Nor the countless numbers slaughtered during the Holy Crusades. The Crucifix is a Reminder of what laid in store for anyone opposed to the Will of the Church, which claimed it's authority from the word of God.

Hendrick wrote:Millions of people were killed throughout the history to support their values.

Yes, and now they are all dead.. thanks to those that claimed to be the followers of God.

Sorry Hendrick, but your Moral Superiority has no foundation in Historical Truth. A few charities and kind words today do not make up for the bloodshed over the last few thousand years in the name of God.

So I will keep my Porn and you can wear that Symbol of Death by Torture (Crucifix) around your neck.. and we will call it a day.

Best wishes,
Dave :^)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Whut on May 6th, 2014, 1:14 am 

Hendrick Laursen » March 16th, 2014, 8:44 pm wrote:Nowadays, we find many channels and websites presenting porno, and many many people enjoying them, while many others strongly resist them?

What's the ethics' view on this phenomenon?


There is no "ethics", unfortunately. Porn is entertainment. If entertainment is enjoyed by itself, with no one else, it will become a problem.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby mtbturtle on May 6th, 2014, 7:14 am 

Dave,

If you knew the people in your porn were being raped would you still watch it?
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby CanadysPeak on May 6th, 2014, 9:05 am 

Hendrick Laursen » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:24 am wrote:What's the Good of the Pornography?
As much as I know, Human was given the reproductive system to continue his line. No to spend his life only enjoying this gift.
I agree with Venus in this fact that it has two faces. But isn't it's dark face much more harmful than it's profiting side?


The clitoris is prima facie evidence that god meant us to enjoy sex as much, and as often, as we can.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby 571- on May 6th, 2014, 4:42 pm 

I actually have a theory.

Natural selection favours the clitoris because it allows women to pleasure themselves without the need for a penis (a man).

If women required men like men require women to get off, then women would not be as selective of their partners (which is evolutionarily advantageous for the species) as they would more indiscriminately seek out sexual partners for the sole purpose of sexual satisfaction (being only able to achieve orgasm vaginally).

By separating sex and reproduction in the female genitalia, women can be more selective, which balances the male opposing propensity. Indeed, many women DON'T enjoy sex, and report getting off far more by themselves.

Now men are selective of partners as well, physically, but because the drive is moreso primarily getting off they seek many sexual partners.

Women's separation of pleasure from reproduction - at least in her physical anatomy - allows for more careful selection to balance the male propensity.

This is quite possibility the worst theory ever :)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Dave_Oblad on May 6th, 2014, 4:48 pm 

Hi MTB,

MTB wrote:If you knew the people in your porn were being raped would you still watch it?

First, I already stated I don't like Violent Porn. Actually, I like solo girls using toys on themselves to get off.

But.. you ask a loaded question. Do you know what the #1 sexual fantasy is for women? It's RAPE!

Thus, a lot of porn made for women includes simulated Rape. If it's well acted enough.. how would I know it's not real rape?

http://www.lovepanky.com/sensual-tease/fantasy/fantasies-for-women-top-ten-female-fantasies

The reason for women to fantasize about rape is simple: They have been programmed to believe sex is a bad thing, especially for pleasure. Thus having sex for fun feels wrong (poor women). Religion sure did a number on their heads.

Anyway, if they are raped, then they had no choice, then they have no guilt. Thus Rape is #1 fantasy for women. It is also popular with men.. for a different reason. They get tired of being told "NO". If they get told "NO" too often, it will lead to anger and possibly violent actions, such as forcing sex on a woman.

This is why we need to re-adjust our outlook on Sex. The crippling effects of Puritanism on Society is producing monsters and mental illnesses. I am one such monster.. created by these irrational rules. Fortunately, I have no issues with Porn and Masturbation. So my monster has an outlet and remains under control.

Did you know that Priests in Africa are having a real personal problem because of HIV? Think about that. Men are Men.. no matter what the cut of their cloth. Whores are no longer a safe outlet there. Nuns are in serious trouble.

Best wishes,
Dave :^)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby 571- on May 6th, 2014, 4:54 pm 

That's one theory^

Another is men who rape are more dominant and by nature desirable partners, viscerally.

Also, think about what rape implies from the male perspective: "You are so desirable that I cannot help but take you by force"

What is women's number 1 concern? Desirability.

Women want to feel desirable - although in many ways not just sexually.

Just as men want to feel powerful.


Dave, isn't it ironic that religion made women feel guilty for sex, thus nurturing rape fantasies, yet today women are now made to feel guilty for rape, despite the so-called sexual revolution?

Indeed, women are still sexually repressed aren't they? They can have sex, but they can't orgasm because they are being indoctrinated with false self-empowerment by learning to approach sex like a man even though this is inconsistent with their make-up.

Gender equality has neutered both men and women. And the sexualization is mostly just talk and commodity; fewer people are actually enjoying sex with each other, because of unnatural equalization. Not religion, but same effect.

It's also worth noting that male dominance in the bedroom is not just needed to spur a woman's sexuality; a woman's sexuality is tied to male dominance outside of the bedroom as well...as head of the family, as a dominant figure socially, etc. Thus equalization interferes with male and female sexuality pervasively in society.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby mtbturtle on May 6th, 2014, 5:11 pm 

Dave,

I didn't say anything about violence. You think that it has to be violent in order to be rape? Is there a certain way rape looks? Are you so sure about that? The question of consent is a nontrivial issue I would think for those that consume pornography but I understand why you would make up stuff about women fantasizing about rape and being repressed rather than tackle it.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Dave_Oblad on May 6th, 2014, 9:49 pm 

Hi MTB,

MTB wrote: You think that it has to be violent in order to be rape?

You are right. I just automatically associate Rape with Violence. I suppose if the female is drunk and passed out, the Rape could be construed as non-violent.

The porn I watch is heavily regulated with actress proof of age and consent forms, all available on request to the public. If She has a big smile on her face and is enthusiastic in her performance, then that works for me.

Also, I made up nothing about Rape being #1 in female fantasies. A quick search of the net indicates such. Why being Raped is such a huge fantasy for women.. I admit I can't know for sure. Why is being forced to have sex so appealing to women? I made an educated guess. You being a woman.. perhaps you can tell me why?

Best regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby mtbturtle on May 6th, 2014, 9:56 pm 

Dave,

Women don't want to be raped. period.

Afraid I can't agree with your low standard of if they are not "passed out", then it is not rape.

What makes you trust the "proof of age" and "consent forms"?
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby 571- on May 7th, 2014, 12:03 am 

Some women want to be raped by a man they find attractive.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Dave_Oblad on May 7th, 2014, 12:13 am 

Hi MTB,

Wikipedia wrote:The most frequently cited hypothesis for why women fantasize of being forced and coerced into some sexual activity is that the fantasy avoids societally induced guilt—the woman does not have to admit responsibility for her sexual desires and behavior.

But I was wrong.. Rape has dropped to the #3 position in recent times for favorite fantasy. Number 1 fantasy is now Exhibitionism. Which is probably why I have such a plethora of adult sites to pick from.

Also, I didn't say women wanted to be Raped. I said it was a Major Fantasy and it still is. I also didn't say that Rape of a passed out woman isn't Rape. I said it wouldn't be classed as Violent. Unless she kicks in her sleep I suppose.

MTB wrote:What makes you trust the "proof of age" and "consent forms"?

Because there are so many righteous watch-dogs looking for any excuse to shut them down.

I think I already mentioned the Meese Commission. They actually got Playboy yanked from the shelves for a short period. Until they got caught overstepping their authority. There was also an interesting back-lash when the do-gooders got Girlie Mags banned from Military Bases. Mags until then were soft-core like Playboy. Shortly after the ban, ALL the Mags went hard core (oral sex and you name it), due partially to lost revenues from Military Bases and probably some vindictiveness.

Judging by how you obviously (and incorrectly) twist everything I say, I must suspect an agenda on your part. Please spell it out?

Best Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby mtbturtle on May 7th, 2014, 7:32 am 

Dave,

So what? Seriously, what does it matter what anyone fantasizes about? My question had nothing to do with fantasies. Enough of the red herring already.

I suppose all that feel good stuff about why people have philosophical discussions doesn't apply to issues such as these. I obviously have an agenda. So I'll leave you to your fantasies.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Hendrick Laursen on May 7th, 2014, 7:36 am 

Hello everyone especially Dave Oblad!
Dave_Oblad wrote:Load of Crap.

Well, as I've told many times, I value your ideas and anyone Else's, even if they're against my view. I don't mind your being discourteous towards me as you assert your mind, but discourtesy would dissuade me on my good opinion about you.

Dave_Oblad wrote:Let's not forget the destruction of the indigenous populations of South and North America's by the Righteous followers of God.

Let's not mix up the matters.
I remember a verse from your Testament:
The Holy Old Testament wrote:20:13 Thou shalt not kill. Genesis

I think the dirtiest of all the sins is to commit them in the name of God.
God never compels anyone to accept his religion or even believe in him. So the ones doing so, only did as they wished in the name of God.

Dave_Oblad wrote:Sorry Hendrick, but your Moral Superiority has no foundation in Historical Truth. A few charities and kind words today do not make up for the bloodshed over the last few thousand years in the name of God.

Of course they never will make up. Never I said to have been supporting tyranny.
Dave_Oblad wrote:The Crucifix is a Reminder of what laid in store for anyone opposed to the Will of the Church, which claimed it's authority from the word of God.

Crucifix! The biggest lie ever through the history. Forgive my rudeness, but with that fake story of Crucifixion and cavalry, church rode on poor people for centuries. It never comes to a healthy mind that God punished Jesus for the sins that other people committed!
Never doubt that Jesus was never crucified. The Qur'an says;
The Holy Qur'an wrote: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
4:157-158



Dave_Oblad wrote:So I will keep my Porn and you can wear that Symbol of Death by Torture (Crucifix) around your neck.. and we will call it a day.

I will tell you as much as you will listen to me, why watching porn is wrong. But I'll never compel you not to watch it. You're a free human, exactly like me, and are free to do as you wish, so you can keep your porn if you don't get satisfied by my reasons. But I will never wear the Cross! sign of a dirty counterfeit.

Yours
HEND
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Hendrick Laursen on May 7th, 2014, 7:43 am 

Whut » May 6th, 2014, 12:14 am wrote:
Hendrick Laursen » March 16th, 2014, 8:44 pm wrote:Nowadays, we find many channels and websites presenting porno, and many many people enjoying them, while many others strongly resist them?

What's the ethics' view on this phenomenon?


There is no "ethics", unfortunately. Porn is entertainment. If entertainment is enjoyed by itself, with no one else, it will become a problem.

There is no ethics? I strongly doubt.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Dave_Oblad on May 7th, 2014, 4:27 pm 

Hi Hendrick,

1) Believing in God was once a value for some and now isn't.
2) Believing in Bible was once a value for many and now isn't.
3) Believing in Moralities was a Value but isn't now for many.
4) Defending your motherland was a value and now isn't.
5) Brotherhood was a value but isn't.
6) Abstinence from homicide, killing others, was a value but now isn't.

Please don't confuse my stance with a personal attack. I also respect you very much. But a debate isn't a debate without disagreement on ideas. I called this list "Crap" because most of it is outdated as it should be. We need to become a Global Community.. thus values that stress Brotherhood, Community, Nationalism, Religious Sects.. etc.. only serve to build walls between groups creating a barrier of "Us vs Them". This must be dissolved if we ever hope to live in Global Peace. Number(6) I believe is wrong for the simple observation that Murder is still illegal most everywhere. The exception to Homicide is War.. which blowing away the first 5 items you listed may help to reduce War worldwide. Again, the first 5 serve to segregate people. That is Bad in my book.

We can't abolish all 5 items over night.. it is a slow process.. with such things as Gay Rights and activities, which carries the death penalty in some Muslim countries. But we must get there if we ever hope to have world peace. So Yes.. the values you cherish are slowly vanishing.. and in most cases.. this is for the greater good. We will need to replace the values you observe are eroding away.. with something we can all agree upon. Probably some form of Humanism.

The rest of that post was depicting the natural results of placing too much value on the 5 items you listed. And I'm not stupid.. most of the bad I listed was from nasty power hungry Individuals and Groups that just needed any excuse (values?) to justify the horrors they inflicted on everyone else.

When someone has what you want.. you make them your enemy.. so you can feel justified in taking it from them by force.

Not You personally my friend ;^P

Best Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby 571- on May 7th, 2014, 6:16 pm 

I believe in God.

God is nature.
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Hendrick Laursen on May 9th, 2014, 12:28 pm 

Behind Walls
First lemme say something. My so-called list is an example and you must look at that just like an example. My tense in those are mostly past-emphasizing[This would rationalize why you think of 'em as outdated, indeed they are.] and it doesn't necessarily mean I actually believe in 'em. See number one for instance:
I wrote:1) Believing in God was once a value for some and now isn't.

I would even call it a general truth. 'cause it carries a "True" value. It was a belief and now isn't for many.

Dave_Oblad wrote:This must be dissolved if we ever hope to live in Global Peace.

Well, it seems a good idea. But I'd call it idealistic meaning we could never reach it.
We'll never unite under this flag of humanity, unless some critical points are solved.
For example, we are segregated by nationalism, religion, morals, ethics, ... .
Dave_Oblad wrote:We can't abolish all 5 items over night.. it is a slow process.. with such things as Gay Rights and activities, which carries the death penalty in some Muslim countries

Being Gay itself is a value for some, thus, it would bring a wall between the ones believing in it and the others. Wouldn't it?

Actually, we must think of a very intelligent answer to this dilemma or we'll be doomed to live behind the walls.

PS:
Dave_Oblad wrote:Not You personally my friend ;^P

lol

Yours, Hend
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Hendrick Laursen on May 9th, 2014, 12:32 pm 

571- wrote:I believe in God.

God is nature.

Then you believe in nature, not God! :)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby 571- on May 9th, 2014, 8:27 pm 

I suppose you are right.

God after all is by definition supernatural.

What I mean is, I do recognize that humans are ultimately at the mercy of nature. Nature created us. It will end us. We are nature. Our bodies are made of earth and water, and return to it we shall.

That's my God :)
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Re: Pornography, Good, Bad or Ugly?

Postby Lomax on February 7th, 2019, 5:38 am 

Wading through the (countless) articles I bookmarked over the years and never read, and came across this one by Alana Massey: Porn Is Not Coming For Our Sex Lives. If I remember correctly Massey is or was a stripper so I'm sure she's had a taste of being told she doesn't enjoy her job, by people who have never done that job. She makes a few general arguments that are worth reading through but in particular she cites some quite compelling evidence that pornography is not misogynist, de re or even de facto:

Alana Massey wrote:Another porn study in the Journal of Sex Research, which involved content analysis of 400 popular online porn videos aimed at heterosexuals [...] revealed that men and women were shown to be equally likely to be the initiators of sex and that they were generally depicted as equally likely to hold positions of power in the workplace. And while women’s bodies were more often objectified through instrumentality with close-up body shots, men were more likely to be objectified by dehumanization by having their faces shown infrequently. [...] a PornHub study of search terms on their site reveals that women are looking for similarly graphic things as men ("big dick" and "lesbian scissoring," to name just a couple). Variations on “handsome man” didn’t even crack the top 25. [...] Some common beliefs about porn’s gender dynamics were upheld in the study, like the tendency to portray women in submissive roles and, in the few instances where violence was depicted in the 400 videos, the propensity to inflict it upon women. But combined with the findings of other studies about female sexual desire, this should not be surprising. A study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine found that 30 to 60 percent of women had fantasies with themes of submission, like being spanked or tied up and forced to have sex. This was corroborated by the PornHub study of male and female viewing patterns that found women were 80 to 100 percent more likely than men to browse sections like "Rough Sex," "Double Penetration," and "Gangbang."
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