Discrimination

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Discrimination

Postby BadgerJelly on July 13th, 2017, 5:01 am 

Is discrimination necessarily 'bad'?

Usually when we accuse someone of "discriminating" we take this as being offensive toward said person. In what circumstances is discrimination a valued mentality?

It seems to me a lot of people are accusing each other of discrimination in the public sphere, in media outlets and on news broadcasts. Would we say someone who opposes terrorism is discriminating against terrorists? Would we condemn them for such discrimination or join them?

Is it necessary to discriminate against certain groups if we strongly feel the majority are acting in a manner we find appalling even though we understand others are not. OR if a minority are causes large amounts of unrest and civil upheaval are we within reason to act in a discriminatory manner toward this group even when we know the majority are passive?

Obviously I am referring mostly to Islam here, but we don't have to look at this as being about any particular group. The question I have posed still stands in regard to any group who is acting baldy in your eyes.

Let me look at this from another angle. Let us say that people who wear yellow hats start killing people. It is quite clear that the "yellow hat" is being used as a symbol to murder innocent people. There are members of the public who simply love to wear yellow hats yet abhor the murders taking place. If they continue to wear yellow hats should they expect themselves to be discriminated against? Would you discriminate against them?

Here we find an issue of freedom coming into conflict with discrimination. To me it seems clear that if you REALLY loved wearing yellow hats then you could use another means to distinguish yourself from other murderous yellow hat wearers. Then we could say these people are making themselves targets for the murderous yellow hat wearers and that they may even use this as a disguise.

Sadly it appears no matter how I look at this situation the innocents being discriminated against are the ones that must act to distance themselves from the ones giving them a bad reputation. Outside interference will undoubtedly be seen as something akin to making people wear six-pointed stars on their clothes so people knew who they were.

Are we possibly moving toward a society where we'll be able to access personal information about people whenever we meet them? In the far/near future can you imagine a society where you possess some device that actively tells you about a persons identity when you speak to them. For example imagine meeting someone for the first time and having information drawn off the internet that calculates what this person believes in and their general political and religious views. In social media today many people will openly announce that they are this or that. Are we paving the way toward more discrimination because of this or less discrimination?

Sorry, many things to go over here. My main concern is whether or not there is need for some discrimination at the expense of others in certain circumstances?
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Watson on July 13th, 2017, 8:48 am 

Usually when we accuse someone of "discriminating" we take this as being offensive toward said person. In what circumstances is discrimination a valued mentality?

When voting?
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Re: Discrimination

Postby BadgerJelly on July 13th, 2017, 11:10 am 

Watson » July 13th, 2017, 8:48 pm wrote:Usually when we accuse someone of "discriminating" we take this as being offensive toward said person. In what circumstances is discrimination a valued mentality?

When voting?


People get told they are "discriminating" all the time for stating a few simple facts. It is more acceptable to be offensive toward some more than others. I see this in every day life to some degree.

What is important in this dynamic is the difference between "offense taken" and "offense directed". I may offend people by doing or saying something. Why should I care if I think their offense is unfounded?

People may then start silencing and attacking me for doing something I don't find offense. I could be discriminated against in this way and be labelled as being purposely offensive when I don't consider what I am doing as offensive.

It seems like today if you point out something "different" it is almost consider the same as "discriminating".

Under what circumstances could discrimination be acceptable? The answer to this is quite simple. It is called law. It is acceptable to discriminate against murderers, drug abusers and thieves. These people are quite openly condemned by society in general and have their civil rights taken away from them. They cannot vote or walk around in society freely. It is an offense and one many deem as a just offense.

We are all offended by something after all. Some offenses to our views have to be taken because it is not illegal to "offend" people.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Serpent on July 13th, 2017, 4:28 pm 

BadgerJelly » July 13th, 2017, 4:01 am wrote:Usually when we accuse someone of "discriminating" we take this as being offensive toward said person.

This is why it used to be and should be accompanied by the modifier which classifies it as acceptable or objectionable: racial discrimination, gender discrimination, religious discrimination, etc.
It's a matter of context. When an all-girl band excludes male musicians, or a Catholic school doesn't hire Buddhist nuns to teach Bible studies, that's discrimination appropriate to the category as defined, because the criteria of discrimination serve the stated function of the group.

An airline manufacturer refusing to hire qualified engineers whose parent were from Portugal, or who go to a synagogue on Saturday instead of a cathedral on Sunday, that would be unacceptable discrimination, because the criteria of exclusion have no relevance to the function for which the person is being considered.

In what circumstances is discrimination a valued mentality?

In the kitchen - choosing harmonious, mutually complementary ingredients for a particular dish and rejecting flavours that clash or neutralize one another.
In publishing, where we choose a well-written, well-constructed, interesting manuscript over a dog's breakfast of zombie apocalyptic plagiarism.
In competitive team building, when the most accomplished players are chosen over the klutzes - regardless of their skin colour.
In jigsaw puzzle solving, where the pieces with no straight edge are passed over when constructing the margins of the picture.

Would we say someone who opposes terrorism is discriminating against terrorists?

It depends what he was organizing. If you need people to blow shit up - it would be silly not to consider qualified terrorists. News broadcasting - it would be perfectly appropriate to exclude terrorists from your studio. Thursday afternoon bridge club - it's a matter of personal taste and nobody else's business on what basis you choose your social circle.

Discrimination refers to choosing one kind of item or person in preference to another, in some specific application or situation. It's not about liking or disliking, opposing or supporting, approving or deprecating - it's about selection.
If you just use words in their proper context, there is a lot less scope for confusion.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby BadgerJelly on July 13th, 2017, 4:48 pm 

Serpent -

If you just use words in their proper context, there is a lot less scope for confusion.


In an ideal world and with an ideal language ;)

We can most definitely use a great number of words in different ways.

You may have noticed someone on the other forum calling me "anti-Semitic", and other times I've been told I should not base my knowledge on what is written in the Bible (assuming I was some Christian or something.) What struck me was some people are quite willing to call anyone who says anything slightly bad about Israel or the Jewish religion is quickly called anti-Semitic by some, and then the same people call out others for "sympathizing" with Muslims and saying "Islamophobia" is somehow an unjustified term?

From this it makes sense to either discriminate against every single group you can or none at all. The later doesn't seem to be an option though because we'll find necessary degrees of preference surely/ even though this may be hard to admit we will continue to make choices in life based not just on merit, but also on "blind preference" rather than just "blind prejudice"?

People want to label and attack others. The really, really want to be offended. I see this in myself too sometimes. It is a very strange thing and a very hard thing to admit to myself and guard against.

What I am talking about here is a very subtle thing and for you or anyone to investigate on a personal level. It is certainly not a comfortable thing to examine in yourself, but I find it all the more fascinating for that very reason.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby Serpent on July 13th, 2017, 6:48 pm 

You don't need an ideal language. You just need to use correctly the very good one we already have.
Yes, people do abuse language, and it makes a lot of their communication gobbledygook. It is also a common stratagem for misrepresenting other people's statements.
There is nothing I can do about that, except keep trying to apply the right word to the object, process or concept I mean, and point out when someone's vocabulary is egregiously wrong and/or dishonest.

As for "prejudice", yes, we do need to examine it in ourselves from time to time.

PS I don't go there anymore. That site is overrun by bigots of the worst and loudest and crudest kind. At least Gustav and Immanuel own dictionaries. But I don't go there much, either.
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Re: Discrimination

Postby BadgerJelly on July 13th, 2017, 10:06 pm 

Oh! haha! Just realized I mixed you up with Fooloso4!

I am going to move from this forum too I hope. Reddit looks like a better place for more precise discussions.

That other site is full of the most bizarre types with the most knee-jerk reactions sometimes. Latest funny is from a member saying something along the lines of "women learnt about time first because of menstruation" ... a very unique way of looking at things!

There are a couple of people there that are okay though.
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