The Third Wheel On Abortion

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Re: The Third Wheel On Abortion

Postby edy420 on January 10th, 2019, 1:06 am 

PaulN,

Your argument is self contradictive.

The importance of everyone having sovereignty over their own bodies massively trumps any feelings you have about knocking up little Susy. Get over it and, if you don't want to get anyone pregnant, then use a fricking contraceptive or keep it in your pants.


Sovereignty over our bodies > child birth

You say it’s not my DNA. But when a baby is born with DNA that’s not mine, you expect me to forfeit the sovereignty of my body?

Child birth > sovereignty over my male body

I include labour. All the labour I conduct with my body, includes sovereignty over my own body.

In the first formulae, where I utilise my income is decided by me. In the second formulae, my income is taken from me.

Which formulae do you agree with?

This is all besides the point. I wouldn’t knock up little Susy. If I did, I would support the baby in every way possible. But I like to think we have equality, as in I have rights responsibilities and choices. It seems that is just a dream

-1-,
Let’s be clear on where we agree.

If you take DNA from my spoon in a restraint, it is not my property. It does not belong to me. If you make a baby clone with that DNA, it is not my responsibility.

If I leave my DNA in an empty parking lot, it is not my property. It does not belong to me. If you take it and inseminate someone, it is not my responsibility.

A male and female contribute DNA to a birthing vat. The male decides he doesn’t want the baby. The female may terminate. If she does not, the male has no responsibility.

I’m sure we agree on all this. What I don’t understand is why do the rules change when we talk about conventional birth. It’s “just” a foetus, she can terminate if she knows she can’t support it on her own.

We established that it’s not the males DNA. She has a choice. If she keeps it without first confirming the males ownership of that which he does not own (?), then she has no right and authority over the males support.

The easiest way to put it. A woman has the choice to have a baby or not. But if she wants support, she must ask for it first.

In my case, she would ask me if I would support the birth of her baby. From here I decide if I want to reclaim ownership of my DNA and support it as my own. Either by trying a relationship with her, or if that doesn’t work then support it financially. (Throw in visiting rights etc). If we want equality, then we need an equal choice.
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Re: The Third Wheel On Abortion

Postby edy420 on January 10th, 2019, 1:16 am 

Serpent » 10 Jan 2019, 11:22 wrote:So, here is a possible misapplication of 'father's rights': factory foreman with barren wife wants offspring; seduces, with blandishments or menaces, a young female employee, then vetoes her decision to abort, is backed by courts based on the claim that she's trying to 'murder' 'his child', which he is willing to adopt. Young employee now stuck with 9 month sentence of discomfort and aforementioned risks, social ostracism, shame, the pain of delivery, the emotional wrench of being parted from a baby she's carried through gestation.
Let's not go back there, okay?


Again it comes down to suffering the consequences of her actions.

She’s part of an affair.
She accepted his sperm, full well knowing about the risks of becoming pregnant.
Hasn’t she put herself in this position?

When the roles are reversed, and it’s a female boss with a young male employee. It’s obvious that he put himself in that position. It’s obvious that he’s responsible. He now must suffer an 18 year sentence of financial burden.

How does a 9 month sentence compare to an 18 year one. Why should one have a choice but not the other.
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Re: The Third Wheel On Abortion

Postby Serpent on January 10th, 2019, 2:06 pm 

edy420 » January 10th, 2019, 12:16 am wrote:Again it comes down to suffering the consequences of her actions.

She’s part of an affair.
She accepted his sperm, full well knowing about the risks of becoming pregnant.
Hasn’t she put herself in this position?

Right. There it is: Impure women should suffer. They deserve to be deprived of options... Even if they were bullied, intimidated, deceived... maybe even if they were raped? ... maybe even if they're 13 and raped by their older brother... Some USian legislators think so.

When the roles are reversed, and it’s a female boss with a young male employee.
It’s obvious that he put himself in that position. It’s obvious that he’s responsible. He now must suffer an 18 year sentence of financial burden.

That's more difficult to accomplish, but not impossible. She took away his condoms? Or lied about being on the pill? She tricked him into giving her a baby?
Then she's very unlikely to tell him, let alone bring a paternity suit. If this came out in court, I very much doubt he'd be liable for child support, but she would probably lose her job and still be pregnant. Meanwhile, he'd have zero consequences.

How does a 9 month sentence compare to an 18 year one.

Thusly: the 9 month one is for certain; no short-cuts, no escape clause, whether she keeps the baby or not. If she does keep it, she has an additional 18 year sentence of financial support, as well as the daily servicing of a child.
The 18 year 'sentence' for the man applies only if the mother keeps the baby, not if she gives it up; is conditional on his being charged and sentenced; usually tailored to his earnings; comes with negotiated paternal privileges if he wants them, but he's not obliged ever to see or be disturbed by that child if he doesn't want to; support payments can be waived if conditions change (such as, the mother marries a man willing to adopt that child), and compliance is often unenforceable. Lots of variables.

And what has this got to do with abortion?
If she chooses to abort, he's free of any obligation, while she still has to go through a degrading and uncomfortable procedure, after having been through an emotional wringer. There, bad girl punished.

What, exactly, are you complaining about? That he gets a share in a baby he didn't intend to make, or that he's deprived of a baby he didn't intend to make?
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Re: The Third Wheel On Abortion

Postby edy420 on January 11th, 2019, 12:55 am 

Right. There it is: Impure women should suffer. They deserve to be deprived of options... Even if they were bullied, intimidated, deceived... maybe even if they were raped? ... maybe even if they're 13 and raped by their older brother


You didn’t mention rape. That unfolds our objective of equality. If your being bullied at work however, you can press charges or get another job.

As a man. I like to face up to my responsibilities. I acknowledge that all my actions have consequences. I expect my children to adopt this ideology too.

Do you support this idea, or think it wrong? If I stab someone, I expect to go to prison. If I drive recklessly, I expect to be pulled up or have an accident. If I have sex with a woman, I expect to get her pregnant.

Now, these consequences are not guaranteed. They are a high risk. If the risk is taken, but it doesn’t pay off, then we are at fault, no one else.

Why is it different for a woman, pure or unpure. It seems they get a free pass, but I don’t see why.

Why does this woman get a free pass and not have to suffer the consequence of her actions. (In the case that she has sex willingly)
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Re: The Third Wheel On Abortion

Postby TheVat on January 11th, 2019, 10:22 am 


Why is it different for a woman, pure or unpure. It seems they get a free pass, but I don’t see why.



LOL. This is some sort of web performance art, right? Good stuff, man.
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Re: The Third Wheel On Abortion

Postby Serpent on January 11th, 2019, 11:02 am 

edy420 » January 10th, 2019, 11:55 pm wrote:
Why does this woman get a free pass and not have to suffer the consequence of her actions.

Free pass. Cute. I don't have time to explain for the umpty-seventh time something that should have been obvious in the first place.
Instead, I repeat the salient point - if it had one - of this thread:

What, exactly, are you complaining about?

That he gets a share in a baby he didn't intend to make,

or that he's deprived of a baby he didn't intend to make?
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