Positor wrote:ronjanec wrote:if we assume that it is in fact true that existence did have a beginning in the first place
Must we assume this?ronjanec wrote:So I had to choose between two completely ridiculous and illogical conclusions, and I of course chose the one that was not as completely ridiculous and illogical as the other one. Or the one that Lomax again said may be correct.
But there is a third possible conclusion, i.e. that existence did not have a beginning. This also may have its problems, but it needs at least to be considered.ronjanec wrote:While it again must be true that there cannot possibly be a pre-existing cause of any kind existing before the beginning of all existence, there at least must still be a reason or why the same existence began at least in retrospect, despite the fact that there can again be no possible pre-existing cause of any kind existing before for any of this(or again, after the fact)
Can you elaborate on the above, please?
Which, if any, of the following statements would you agree with?
1. There is no such thing as "before existence".
2. There has been existence for the whole of past time (i.e. for any past instant or duration t, there was existence at t).
3. There has always been existence.
4. Existence began.
Is (2) tantamount to (3)? Are (3) and (4) contradictory or not? (Does "always" mean "for all time", or specifically "for all infinite time"?)
I would also be grateful if K.R. could give a concise summary of his position.
No, I am not saying that existence must have had a beginning: I was just trying to eliminate this possibility in the op, so I could then discuss "if this is true(or the universe had a beginning), then this may or must also be true"
Yes I also agree, there definitely could be a third conclusion, or again the possibility "that existence did not have a beginning"
Existence actually begins with no pre-existing cause(God, the Big Bang event, or whatever): Despite the fact that the same existence again began with no possible existing cause, if you really really think about this awhile, you will come to understand that there still must be a reason or why the same existence began at least in retrospect or after the beginning.
Or in other words, someone can ask a question today "Why did existence begin?" and there can still be(or again must be) a reason or why the same existence began at least after the fact(or again in retrospect), despite the fact that there could have been no pre-existing cause for this: The same reason or why still cannot exist in any possible way before the beginning of all existence.
Yeah I know, this is a really hard one to comprehend.