what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Discussions on the nature of being, existence, reality and knowledge. What is? How do we know?

what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby jakegarland on March 13th, 2009, 10:38 am 

would the possibility of humanity reaching the pinnacle of which they could deaden the human mind before the mind's conception begins, but keep the body to study for any number of things ethical? Or could they extract the mind at the moment of it’s conception, whenever that may be (when is that?), is that immortality? Does that make us gods or prisoners? Can humanity further propel itself without the body? Is that something more evolved more than humanity?
what if we engineered invincible bodies to place that detached human mind in, thus giving man immortality. and if a company had the ability to build an invincible version of you (with upgrades of course) that the human mind could live in forever, how much would they charge? How much to see the universe end? Or would you want to kill yourself before that? At what point does one say, “ I’m content with what I’ve seen, I’ve done what what I’ve wanted to do, I’m completely ready to die”? what if it was a ride you couldn’t get off?
Would there be an argument against those who believe in reincarnation and those who don’t? a war? Would we ever obtain proof of immortality not designed by mankind? What if being immortal causes you to live after the end of the universe? Is that something?

i know it's a lot of questions but it's a concept that i've grappled with for some time, any and all opinions/theories welcome, what does everyone think? this has to do with the question of immortality, which is a pillar of religious thought. my questions are based on, though they really only can be opinion, about what people think of this. can humanity reach this point? and if so, what are the moral, ethical, religious and existential implications?
jakegarland
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby ILikeCheese on August 19th, 2009, 2:42 am 

This is a very interesting concept. This is kind of what it would be like to take the form of a ghost. Who knows maybe thats what happens when we die. We are freed of our bodies and we can explore the universe as a spirit for infinity. But I think if everbody on earth were just spirits what would be the point of the physical world? There are many thoughts floating around my mind about this right now. But I think if our universe (I say "our" because the universe is like lifes big home") were to be destroyed we would be deminished too because our souls would be part of the universe. But I don't think the universe can "disappear" like the way your wording it though. Science states that matter cannot be created and cannot be destroyed. Therefore the universe cannot logically be destroyed. The universe can only collapse and restart itself. So with your theory that just means we would just be really bored for about a few billion years until we can observe life evolve again. It won't be pretty. Maybe thats the point of life. To watch ourselves evolve, expire, then watch the next round of life evolve and see how much better or worse the next beings are at bettering themselves. Maybe there are trillions to infinity amounts of spirits among us right now watching how we are. Spooky :) Human kind would be at its foremost if we could extract our mind from our body. We would need no further advancement than that. This is because if there is no body for us to take care of and there would be no death. The problems we have today would be gone. I don't think I would really like this world. I would rather have a human existance THEN move onto a spirit existance. I like the idea of having cuddly humans around lol. But the invincible human body would fix that. I will stop it here until the next post to see what you think of my response. I have much more to add so ILL BE BACK! (picture me flying off in a cape towards the moon...)
ILikeCheese
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby bigevil on August 19th, 2009, 7:26 am 

I didn't read everything, sorry, I'm lazy. But I do have a view, one that I'm not even sure that I fully believe in but one that I puzzle myself with.

I'll say it as simple as I can, so forgive me if I lack detail and it makes no sense.

It is possible that we have always existed or always needed to exist. Keep in mind your earthly origin or in other words the start of your human life. Now, think about all the sperm that your father has had before and after your birth, all those millions, now think about all the eggs of your mother. All those combinations of life and your being is made up out of just one of each. Have you realised that had your parents decided to conceive you a few days to a week later that you wouldn't exist because the combination of egg and sperm would be different, and rather another person would be born in place of you. What makes that certain combination the one that you are? What is making us the conscious perciever of the certain combination of egg and sperm we are made up of and why is our entire intelligent being reliant on that? If humans really were like robots and living a futile existence, there would only be body and no mind and then there would be nothing stopping me from being my older brother, as we come from the same mother and father, built off the same genetics. This is why each human is absolutely so privileged and perfect. There is such a greater possibility and probability not to exist than there is to exist given the infinite amount of combinations of conception, and it is out of this reality that we strive and are born and live effortlessly.

In the event that the mind is seperated from the body, I believe we see everything in it's absolute true nature. We see the goodness and badness, the quality and the intention of all things, not because it's man made but because it's immortal and what we are is what we've always and ever will be. All is divine.
bigevil
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the

Postby ILikeCheese on August 19th, 2009, 1:52 pm 

bigevil wrote:I didn't read everything, sorry, I'm lazy. But I do have a view, one that I'm not even sure that I fully believe in but one that I puzzle myself with.

I'll say it as simple as I can, so forgive me if I lack detail and it makes no sense.

It is possible that we have always existed or always needed to exist. Keep in mind your earthly origin or in other words the start of your human life. Now, think about all the sperm that your father has had before and after your birth, all those millions, now think about all the eggs of your mother. All those combinations of life and your being is made up out of just one of each. Have you realised that had your parents decided to conceive you a few days to a week later that you wouldn't exist because the combination of egg and sperm would be different, and rather another person would be born in place of you. What makes that certain combination the one that you are? What is making us the conscious perciever of the certain combination of egg and sperm we are made up of and why is our entire intelligent being reliant on that? If humans really were like robots and living a futile existence, there would only be body and no mind and then there would be nothing stopping me from being my older brother, as we come from the same mother and father, built off the same genetics. This is why each human is absolutely so privileged and perfect. There is such a greater possibility and probability not to exist than there is to exist given the infinite amount of combinations of conception, and it is out of this reality that we strive and are born and live effortlessly.

In the event that the mind is seperated from the body, I believe we see everything in it's absolute true nature. We see the goodness and badness, the quality and the intention of all things, not because it's man made but because it's immortal and what we are is what we've always and ever will be. All is divine.


Hey. I read your post on the topic: Questioning the Existence of Others. If this is what you have to say here doesn't that contradict what you posted there? Also if you do a lot of thinking ( I know it's hard...) you will come to realize that the demons and angels that were created by society do not exist. Society wants you to believe there is good and bad in this world. There is neither. There are no "angels" and no "demons", they were created by society to have people conform. If your bad you go to hell, if your good you go to heaven. It's bull crap. These beliefs have held people back since the moment they were created. Believe in what you think is right and do what you think is right to contribute to the world. I hope this helps.
ILikeCheese
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the

Postby bigevil on August 20th, 2009, 7:15 am 

The thought I wrote in this topic does not contradict at all. It is all the contemplation within the realm capable of contemplating regardless whether there are other conscious beings or you may believe you are the only conscious being. In this post it outlines the perfection and detail of life whether it is a dream or not and adds weight to the claim of divinity. There is the infinite, if you hadn't realized that then you're a dormant lump of clay. Re-read my post again, contemplate it, think about it, draw out the essence of life that you've over looked. It defeats the random absurdist claim.

Demons and angels most definitely exist as an entity whether you believe in heaven and hell or not. There is good and there is bad, everything of personhood is governed by that effortlessly. You must be that punk rocker kid that thinks it's cool to rebel against conformity. Good for you. You owe it to religion that we have any order in this world, it is only the later division and distortion of ethics and morality in religion that has ruined and confused society. The smartest thing that the savage, primitive people thousands of years ago had ever done was to accept they are not superior in this world, and there is universal power that is infinitely stronger than man, whether you see it as god or not. Because of their realization and acceptance of this had the basis for any order in the world was formed. The Mayans and Aztecs etc were much wiser, spiritual, smarter, stronger and less arrogant of their own self and live for what ever is great and not what is trivial, hence the necessity to mould a culture in order to create a system of which we can live and conduct our lives to a civil ability. Yes, you must be wondering how the Mayans, an ancient and also violent society could be of better quality and human quality of our own. Their intelligence and spirituality was remarkable, with overall better and higher human quality than this decaying and dying breed of modern day humans. Our society is destroyed by our trivial worshships (food, the internet, drug use, sex, greed, richness and stepping over people for self gain.) You and I are guilty of this. We are stupid. This is what is holding people back, the arrogance and self-worship of their individual worth. Such an apathetic, material age, everybody asking for help and not helping, diminishing their own human quality and letting this tragedy of man snowball, expecting someone else to fix it, putting the finger when they should be pointing at themselves and those who oppress for that which is...yes...again...trivial. I hope that helps.

There is mind and there is body.

Isn't this what you should be learning from punk rock? What punk rock are you listening to...
bigevil
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby chaoticcomplexity on August 20th, 2009, 8:12 am 

We are beginning to explore control of electronic processes by brain activity. In time, the gradual improvements can lead to modifications of our biological constitution, and our brain. In can be possible that in the future, when this modifications reach its consummation, the body will be like a dress for the mind. We may be able to change our body anytime we want while maintaining our sense of who we are. This is immortality my friend.
chaoticcomplexity
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Minimal on August 21st, 2009, 9:09 pm 

To me, to treat the mind and body as separable entities ultimately masquerades dualism as some rational (for all intents and purposes I use the word "rational" synonymous with the word "practical" unless specified otherwise) explanation. I treat the brain as a biological construct, one based around chemicals. I would therefore have to concede that the point in which the "conception of mind" occurs is when a certain stage of chemical conflation is reached in the evolutionary process and allows for the emergence of consciousness (mind) at whatever level - the degrees being comparative to other entities of biological evolution. As I see the mind as a conflation of physical components or compositions, I find it hard, if not impossible, to detach the mind from the body without terminating consciousness - or this potential "immortality" as you word it in your original post.

Although this is my personal outlook on the viability of such a concept, I understand how people see a transcendental nature to our existence and therefore create a paradigm of some detachable existence or dimension of alternate existence. To me personally it is like arguing an afterlife, which I humbly reject.

- Minimal.
Minimal
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the

Postby Bill Davis on August 21st, 2009, 9:43 pm 

While it is an interesting notion, I am not convinced that the mind is anything more than a complex awareness of present sensations. As we reduce sensory awareness, we seem to reduce our sense of self. The brain happens to be the environment that allows for this intense interaction between senses (both internal monitoring and external monitoring senses) and without it we would need some mechanism to duplicate the same sensation.

On the notion of transferring our "consciousness" we do that continually. I am not the person I was years ago. I am influenced by the memories and have the same structures enabling and limiting me; but, my consciousness as a 8 year old does not exist anymore. Actually my consciousness is always moving toward the next point I sense as the "present." This may provide the basis for future technology to allow people to make a gradual change to a cyborg or even totally artificial brain; but, it will be a delusion that the new "self" is the old "self."
Bill Davis
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the

Postby Minimal on August 21st, 2009, 10:00 pm 

Bill Davis wrote:On the notion of transferring our "consciousness" we do that continually. I am not the person I was years ago. I am influenced by the memories and have the same structures enabling and limiting me; but, my consciousness as a 8 year old does not exist anymore. Actually my consciousness is always moving toward the next point I sense as the "present." This may provide the basis for future technology to allow people to make a gradual change to a cyborg or even totally artificial brain; but, it will be a delusion that the new "self" is the old "self."


I agree with you, we constantly change our opinions and our conscious state based on the environment and abstractions that crop up in life. Artificial existence of a ("primitive" or more "advanced") consciousness seems completely viable to me, but it would have to work in physical compositions as you mentioned, and in that sense, it never detached from the "body" - which I interpret as physicality.

- Minimal.
Minimal
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby chaoticcomplexity on August 22nd, 2009, 4:41 am 

In transferring a mind to a new body, it may not mean to separate the mind from the body, but it may mean a modification of the body into something that can change over time at will, in almost an instant just like one will like to change clothes. As we may notice, it is possible that some parts of the body can be gradually replaced by bio-mechanical parts and materials having complex cybernetic couplings with our nerves so it acts just like a normal part. With the development of new technologies, like nanotechnology and molecular cybernetics, we may discover new materials more superior and versatile than organic ones that can replace the functioning of natural cells. We may be able to create self-replicating artificial/synthetic cells capable of being redesigned or reprogrammed at will. In the brain, it may does replacement by identifying the critical mass that determines consciousness (or whatever that may be in the future) and those which are non-critical may be replaced gradually, and then bit by bit those that determines consciousness, a cell at a time, maybe, just to maintain the connections, so consciousness is not lost. After that process it seems to me that we may have 'super' human capabilities, though we still have sense of identity. We do not die, we just develop into the next step...we're like geniuses and mainframe supercomputers combined capable of solving unimaginably complex problems. At the high point of this capabilities, we may discover ways to sever our to much dependence on materiality. Our identities may find ways to control matter at will without using matter. We may discover energy configurations where we can have our identities stable enough. In this time we do not need cells anymore to maintain our identities. It seems that possibilities are somewhat endless within the limit of our being-ness.
chaoticcomplexity
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Minimal on August 22nd, 2009, 9:17 am 

It will be interesting to see in the future the development of cybernetics and synthetic units. With this being said, they still remain physical in the sense of existing in observable/quantifiable terms, or not transcending components. In this respect they still have a "body" some physicality, although possibly deviant from strictly biological units in the future.

- Minimal.
Minimal
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Gavinlucas22 on September 14th, 2009, 8:23 am 

What happens when you separate mind from body?

This assumes that it can be done. To prove that it can not, and that the mind is nothing more than matter, think of the following thought experiment:

Jack dies, and in doing so he leaves his body behind. But Jack no longer has any eyes, ears, tongue, nose or nervous system, since these were all part of his body. so how exactly is Jack to have any experience at all? the fact of the matter is this: once the body dies, the mind also dies. This is a tough pill to swallow, but nonetheless once one has accepted it can be extremely liberating.

If you disagree still, you can conduct a second experiment of a more empirical nature: go and take some LSD. If you still believe the mind exists separate from matter after this, then there is nothing more I can do to convince you. Why would this work? Because once you have experienced the power of such PHYSICAL things on your mind, you have to begin to wonder - if the mind was not matter, then how can matter so seriously affect the mind?
Gavinlucas22
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby CanadysPeak on September 14th, 2009, 8:08 pm 

In order for this to be feasible, we have to believe that there is an entity, the "mind", which is somehow independent of the CNS. Otherwise, the nerves which run down to my hands, and which some consider critical to the development of the frontal cortices, are a part of the "mind" and can't be treated separately.

Then, if there is such a "mind", what makes it up? Where does it reside? Is there any body part whose destruction also destroys this "mind"? How does this "mind" connect with the body?

We might suppose some sort of very sharply delimited Kantian consciousness separate from the body, but I can't see that qualifying as a "mind".
CanadysPeak
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby RAPTORFEET on September 14th, 2009, 9:04 pm 

What is this 'mind' that exists independently of the physical being? Your consciousness didn't exist before your physical body existed and it won't exist afterwards. Your 'thoughts' are controlled by numerous interactions of chemical processes. Even a minor addition or disruption to your biochemistry can leave you either comatose with no consciousness or a consciousness unable to function sanely.

As Gavinlucas advices....pop some LSD....or even try whatever drug Michael Jackson took 'to sleep'...your consciousness will be toast. No need to even go that far...just have that third glass of wine. Cripes, just withhold one of a dozen chemicals and your mind will go bonkers.

The mind is a product of physics and chemistry. It's not a 'miracle' and probably at some future level of technology we'll be able to create thought independent of an organic body through some use of electronics and chemicals. when? Nobody knows ...cound be 500 years...5,000 years. Maybe we'll be able to replicate the mind of an existing individual and load it into the latest electronic gizmo. While all this 'consciousness' is going on, the physical properties of the Universe will continue to determine the state of all matter and energy. Despite the wishes of some, there is no spiritual world that trumps the physical Universe.
RAPTORFEET
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby truthforhappiness on September 15th, 2009, 12:38 am 

mind = ox
body = chariot

what happen when 'ox' and 'chariot' are separated ? Contemplate.

Fortunately in living being, there is one more element besides 'mind' and 'body', that is
spirit = higher-self = kundalini = god = divine

if this element is awakened or separate from mind and body, there will be only Truth that will arise in thoughts, speeches, actions and infinitely others.

Below is not related to the post,

[ EDIT: STOP SPAMMING YOUR WEBSITE AROUND OUR FORUMS.- mtb]
truthforhappiness
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby chaoticcomplexity on September 15th, 2009, 10:47 am 

CanadysPeak wrote:In order for this to be feasible, we have to believe that there is an entity, the "mind", which is somehow independent of the CNS. Otherwise, the nerves which run down to my hands, and which some consider critical to the development of the frontal cortices, are a part of the "mind" and can't be treated separately.

Then, if there is such a "mind", what makes it up? Where does it reside? Is there any body part whose destruction also destroys this "mind"? How does this "mind" connect with the body?

We might suppose some sort of very sharply delimited Kantian consciousness separate from the body, but I can't see that qualifying as a "mind".


We don't have to believe first, CanadysPeak, we may create a condition where mind can be separable from the body...that is, today, mind and body is one system, in the future, it may not be or not have to be. Invention is at the heart of this - technology. If ever we succeeded in reconstructing a cell from scratch...then simulate natural cell formation in human development and in maintaining the stability of the mind...and explore how the mind expands with it as the mind is linked to natural body, then we may be able to construct more artificial entities that can be substituted to cells with an extra feature that these artificial entities not only can hold the mind in continuity but it can also change its structures like changing a hardware from a computer and replacing it with a new one with upgraded features, but this time with beneficial effects to the software which can be growing instead of becoming obsolete...the mind will still have a sense of identity but will evolve to such heights no one has ever perceived before....

So in human experience, man made distinction between the mind and the body....in the future...man may be able to create a condition that will separate it from the body. What is impossible now may not be in the future. The quality of our science fictions now are changing...some of them more and more develop in giving an idea of how future may look like...

A highly intelligent robot isn't a science fiction anymore...a new form of intelligence will soon emerge. Beyond that...the combining of neuroscience, computer science and robotics is also gradually emerging.
chaoticcomplexity
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby nameless on October 4th, 2009, 6:54 pm 

jakegarland wrote:what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

What happens is what is! Now! and Now! and Now!!!
There has never been any definitive evidence that mind is causally connected to the body.
There is one Consciousness/Mind, many Conscious Perspectives (us).
'Thoughts' are coexistent with a functioning brain, but there is correlation not 'causation'. 'Thoughts', like everything else in existence, are perceived. Odd that everything perceived is not considered 'mine'.
Ego is that which perceives 'subject/object' distinctions.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby psionic11 on October 5th, 2009, 1:16 am 

nameless wrote:
jakegarland wrote:what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

What happens is what is! Now! and Now! and Now!!!
There has never been any definitive evidence that mind is causally connected to the body.
There is one Consciousness/Mind, many Conscious Perspectives (us).
'Thoughts' are coexistent with a functioning brain, but there is correlation not 'causation'. 'Thoughts', like everything else in existence, are perceived. Odd that everything perceived is not considered 'mine'.
Ego is that which perceives 'subject/object' distinctions.


BS! and BS! and BS!!!

"There has never been any definitive evidence that mind is causally connected to the body. "

Oh yeah? Every evidence I see of a mind is causally connected to a body. Often a human body. I even see evidence of a dog's mind exhibited causally connected to that dog's body.

Dog thinks, dog does, dog did.

Despite abstract BS! like 'correlation' and 'One' and 'coexistent thoughts' and nonesuch nonsense.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby nameless on October 5th, 2009, 4:38 am 

psionic11 wrote:
nameless wrote:What happens is what is! Now! and Now! and Now!!!
There has never been any definitive evidence that mind is causally connected to the body.
There is one Consciousness/Mind, many Conscious Perspectives (us).
'Thoughts' are coexistent with a functioning brain, but there is correlation not 'causation'. 'Thoughts', like everything else in existence, are perceived. Odd that everything perceived is not considered 'mine'.
Ego is that which perceives 'subject/object' distinctions.

BS! and BS! and BS!!!

1) Wow! That makes 3 'B's and three 'S's! Can I keep em?
2) I'm real bad at hints, just speak your mind.
3) "Methinks thou protesteth overmuch!" - Bill Shakespeare

"There has never been any definitive evidence that mind is causally connected to the body. "

Oh yeah? Every evidence I see of a mind is causally connected to a body. Often a human body. I even see evidence of a dog's mind exhibited causally connected to that dog's body.

Then, for you, it is true. So? For a bible believing Xtian, 'Jesus' walked on water, so, for them, he did.
Would you care to define 'mind' as you use it?
I see the common meaning as 'thoughts/memory'.

Despite abstract BS! like 'correlation' and 'One' and 'coexistent thoughts' and nonesuch nonsense.

Then what are you doing on a philosophy forum, especially in the metaphysics section?
Nevertheless, I can understand if you cannot. 'Meaning' is in the eye of the beholder, or lack thereof.
We find food for thought where and as we do. So, in other words, if you have no scientific or philosophic or logical refutal or comment, I don't know what we have to discuss.
peace
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby NobodySome on May 21st, 2010, 7:25 pm 

jakegarland wrote:would the possibility of humanity reaching the pinnacle of which they could deaden the human mind before the mind's conception begins, but keep the body to study for any number of things ethical? Or could they extract the mind at the moment of it’s conception, whenever that may be (when is that?), is that immortality? Does that make us gods or prisoners? Can humanity further propel itself without the body? Is that something more evolved more than humanity?
what if we engineered invincible bodies to place that detached human mind in, thus giving man immortality. and if a company had the ability to build an invincible version of you (with upgrades of course) that the human mind could live in forever, how much would they charge? How much to see the universe end? Or would you want to kill yourself before that? At what point does one say, “ I’m content with what I’ve seen, I’ve done what what I’ve wanted to do, I’m completely ready to die”? what if it was a ride you couldn’t get off?
Would there be an argument against those who believe in reincarnation and those who don’t? a war? Would we ever obtain proof of immortality not designed by mankind? What if being immortal causes you to live after the end of the universe? Is that something?

Humanity will never reach to this point that they could separate human mind from the body while body still "living" after - I belive. It is impossible. When human mind is out of the human body - there is no human as we know the meaning of it. And also I belive that we will never obtain any proof of immortality or are able to create a immortal living person by science except if we would be able to grow and change human organs and other body parts through science non-stop in a period of human life to block the "getting older". But even then if we could be able to do all that described before - how we would get over the "olde brain" (in theory speaking and thinking)?

i know it's a lot of questions but it's a concept that i've grappled with for some time, any and all opinions/theories welcome, what does everyone think? this has to do with the question of immortality, which is a pillar of religious thought. my questions are based on, though they really only can be opinion, about what people think of this. can humanity reach this point? and if so, what are the moral, ethical, religious and existential implications?
NobodySome
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Marshall on May 21st, 2010, 7:49 pm 

The mind is a process which the body performs.

It is ridiculous to talk about separating the walking from the legs, as if the walking was a separate thing.
Can the breathing be separated from the lungs?

Canady already indicated the problem.

Eventually one might construct an alternative system, a computer, into which my mind process might be copied. And the process might work there more or less well/badly. But that would not be MY mind. It would be an imitation process. Ultimately its survival interests values preferences decisions would inevitably differ from mine. A copied process is not the same as the process itself.

So IMHO the mind and body are inseparable.
The question was "what happens when you separate them?"
The answer is: nothing happens, because you cannot do it.
Marshall
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby QuantumAttractors on May 23rd, 2010, 2:47 am 

Marshall wrote:The mind is a process which the body performs.

It is ridiculous to talk about separating the walking from the legs, as if the walking was a separate thing.
Can the breathing be separated from the lungs?

Canady already indicated the problem.

Eventually one might construct an alternative system, a computer, into which my mind process might be copied. And the process might work there more or less well/badly. But that would not be MY mind. It would be an imitation process. Ultimately its survival interests values preferences decisions would inevitably differ from mine. A copied process is not the same as the process itself.

So IMHO the mind and body are inseparable.
The question was "what happens when you separate them?"
The answer is: nothing happens, because you cannot do it.


My imagination goes wild when I come to this topic. The progress in biotechnology, as CC mentioned from nanotechnology to molecular cybernetics, may make these things possible. A gradual replacement of artificial cells more flexible and yet as stable (or more) as the cells of the body may enable transfer of our mind to a new form of body. This new form of body maintains the essential relationships and connections for our unique consciousness. It may add new capabilities to our mind, and yet it maintains our recognition of who we are, the I. Further this body may still undergo more development in that it will have some means to transfer the mind to another body via some technological connections. The body then becomes like clothes of the mind. The mind can change them whenever it wants to.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Matthias on May 25th, 2010, 8:13 pm 

Gavinlucas22 wrote:What happens when you separate mind from body?

This assumes that it can be done. To prove that it can not, and that the mind is nothing more than matter, think of the following thought experiment:

Jack dies, and in doing so he leaves his body behind. But Jack no longer has any eyes, ears, tongue, nose or nervous system, since these were all part of his body. so how exactly is Jack to have any experience at all? the fact of the matter is this: once the body dies, the mind also dies. This is a tough pill to swallow, but nonetheless once one has accepted it can be extremely liberating.

If you disagree still, you can conduct a second experiment of a more empirical nature: go and take some LSD. If you still believe the mind exists separate from matter after this, then there is nothing more I can do to convince you. Why would this work? Because once you have experienced the power of such PHYSICAL things on your mind, you have to begin to wonder - if the mind was not matter, then how can matter so seriously affect the mind?


LSD doesn't prove much, just that your neurons were being screwed with.

A metaphysical "spirit" is usually considered your life force and non-physical thought center, rather than your physical thought center. Thus, the brain and the Mind are different things.
Matthias
 


Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby MindSoul on January 6th, 2011, 5:05 am 

Some philosopher argues that the mind and the body are separate entities, some say that the mind and the body must cohere together. The question post on this forum was what happens when the body is separate from the mind? What we happen is DEATH. Death is the separation of the mind from the body. The body and mind cohere together and work in harmony to keep the spirit alive in reality, the weakness of the body resulting from old age and sicknesses lead to the separation of the mind from the body and result into death. It is only when the mind and the body become separate entities that man is free from the desire of the flesh and freedom from death. Plato says that the soul is imprisoned to the body. I agree with Plato. The soul does not support to be unity with the body, is unity with it is because the creator as not give man permanent existence is existence is only temporary, and is existence is just an experimentation of life.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby neuro on January 6th, 2011, 4:27 pm 

MindSoul wrote: The body and mind cohere together and work in harmony to keep the spirit alive in reality, the weakness of the body resulting from old age and sicknesses lead to the separation of the mind from the body and result into death. It is only when the mind and the body become separate entities that man is free from the desire of the flesh and freedom from death. Plato says that the soul is imprisoned to the body. I agree with Plato.

As your nick suggests, you seem to be equating mind=soul.

I am not going to argue against this, but simply pointing out the uselessness of the word "mind" if you merely equate it with "spirit" or "soul".

A productive field of scientific research and philosophical arguing concerns understanding the mechanisms and the principles of the mind, considered in its cognitive (logics, reasoning, language), affective (emotions, motivation) and imaginative capabilities, and examining the possible links with the brain and its functioning.

Whatever can be well described by these approaches should in my opinion be kept separated from the concept of "soul", although it certainly belongs to the "mind".

Whereas you can easily think (if you wish) of a "soul" separated from the body, it is impressive how the "mind" gets impaired in its function not only by the action of psychoactive drugs, but even by our simply falling asleep, a condition in which the mind certainly is not separated from the body, but rather the activity of the thalamus simply disconnects the cerebral cortex from sensory input and introduces some concerted rythmicity in cortical activity.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby MindSoul on January 6th, 2011, 7:21 pm 

Nero is the true i equate the mind with the spirit MIND is not a material component and scientific demonstration can not describe the mind. Mind is a spiritual entities in man and it is the spirit side of man and the quest of science to give mind a material definition as cause confusion to the word Mind and Soul. The mind is spirit and spirit is soul.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby neuro on January 6th, 2011, 7:27 pm 

MindSoul wrote:Nero is the true i equate the mind with the spirit MIND is not a material component and scientific demonstration can not describe the mind. Mind is a spiritual entities in man and it is the spirit side of man and the quest of science to give mind a material definition as cause confusion to the word Mind and Soul. The mind is spirit and spirit is soul.


Do you mean a mental operation is a spiritual operation?

Or is there a sense in distinguishing the mind from the soul?
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby MindSoul on January 6th, 2011, 7:49 pm 

The Mind and soul are the same and ONE Yes a mental operation is a spiritual operation controlling the body and putting it in motion.
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Fuqin on January 7th, 2011, 1:40 am 

Can humanity further propel itself without the body?
I’m only going to tackle this one, I believe so! In fact I think we are already doing it, actually ever since we developed record keeping i.e. writing and language we’ve done this , thought transfer is all about it , I’m doing it now [ communication at advanced levels] our whole anthropocentric world is all about it ,words, words, words. However I’m guessing you mean more than this, forgive me here I’m a sci-fi lover ,one day the cockroaches might unearth our history and find the final holographic summation of all human endeavor , and be grateful we destroyed ourselves in order to leave room for their own evolution. Edit :- oh yes, Te he he he and when they finally stumble upon this post they will think me the most intelligent and insight full biped that ever existed , I can see it now Fuqin the simian prophet , along with john writer of revelations , Nostradamus , and Lincoln star maker whom changed the time line in our parsec of the universe by inadvertently recreating the big bang and making his lab the center of the universe.:)))
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Re: what happens when you separate the mind from the body?

Postby Drum on January 15th, 2011, 12:06 pm 

I pretty much skipped half the posts. Sorry if I repeat something.

..so what happens when you separate the mind.. oops stop right there. You cannot separate the mind from the body. What we call mind comes from the body. It is only a function of the body. There can be no mind without a physical form to sustain it and it's doubtful that technology would ever be able to "copy" the human mind into machine (nice movies though (Ghost in the shell, Outer limits))
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