Neri wrote:As I pointed out in another thread, the present is not something that exists outside the mind, owing to the fact that to be meaningful it would have to be an instant and not a period—that is, a point of time having a duration of naught. An event cannot exist in the real world if it exists for no time at all.
What we call the present is really the variable period sufficient to be cognized by a conscious subject as the temporal extent of an “event.” However, the event itself is said to exist as a period determined by instants called the “beginning” and the “end.” Yet, these instants cannot exist for the same reasons just stated. Thus, the real world is in continuous transition and cannot consist of fully determinable periods. Such things belong to the mind and not the world.
Agreed. A good analogy may be that the “real world” operates ‘analog-ly’ (with infinite resolution), whereas the “mind’s representation” of the world operates ‘digitally’ (with the resolution being a function of the physical brain processing speed and frequency).
This ‘digital representation’ of the “real world” is akin to watching a video comprised of very many “instants” / snapshots.
Neri wrote:Similarly, any experience of a conscious subject must exist for more than an instant, for to be real any experience must exist for more than no time at all. The thing that allows our experience of the world to have temporal extent is called memory. Thus, it is memory that allows us to track the temporal sequence of the aspects of processes in the world. In fact, consciousness itself is a kind of memory.
I conditionally agree. But it is here that we get close to parting ways. Two important distinctions are:
are two distinct things. These are not always necessarily fused together. Experience does not require consciousness, but consciousness always require experiencing.
2. Although related, consciousness is NOT a type of memory. Consciousness itself is an experience; it is the experience of recognition, made possible by memory. So in this respect, without memory there could be no consciousness.
Neri wrote:A world process is thought of as occurring in the present time when that process is subject to perception and is isolated in the mind (focused upon) because it is a matter of particular urgency or interest.
The “present time” is the consciousness
itself, which lags reality
by whatever time it takes to ‘recognize
’ this reality.
1. Consciousness is the “present”.
2. Reality is in the “past”.
Example: Reach out and touch an apple. When you feel or know that you have touched that apple, it has already aged 150 milliseconds. As mind-boggling
as it sounds, you actually touched the apple BEFORE you KNEW it
ALL events in reality occur BEFORE we are conscious of them. In effect, consciousness is an after-effect.
Neri wrote:Aspects of a real process are correctly preserved in memory if those aspects are remembered in the same sequence and character as they are in the real world. To put it other words, a remembered experience corresponds to an “event” in the real world if the aspects of that “event” are preserved in memory in the same sequence and character as they are in the real world.
If that correspondence exists, it is a matter of no consequence if what is conceived of as the “beginning” of an “event” in the real world precedes what is remembered as the beginning of the same “event” in the experience of it.
True. In other words, when watching the video of a real event, it should have the same chronological sequence as the real event itself.
Neri wrote:Here, I refer to the kind of memory that allows the exercise of the will (voluntary memory [consciousness]) in its simplest form, which involves the preservation of current sensory data. In such case, there is claimed to be a minuscule lag time between what is thought of as the beginning of the world event and the beginning of the sensory experience of it. Such a thing is inconsequential in the extreme, even if it exists.
It is here that we take different paths.
1. Any consciousness what-so-ever of anything, including “exercising one’s will” is itself still just a ‘present’ memory of a ‘PAST’ event. There are NO EXCEPTIONS.
2. “Voluntary memory” implies a ‘present’ control (exercising of the will) over a ‘past’ event (held in memory). The ‘present’ cannot control the ‘past’. Circles cannot be squares. Bachelors cannot be married. And the ‘present’ cannot control the ‘past’.
Neri wrote:Further, I use the expression, “what is thought of as the beginning of a real event,” because no such thing as a beginning exists in the real world. For anyone to declare that a timing device determines the beginning of an event in the real world, he must rely on his own sensory organs to experience the output of that timing device. Thus, determining a lag time is itself only a matter of experience. What is claimed to be the beginning of any world event is no more than a matter of agreement among people “synchronizing” their timing devices according to their own experience of such devices. Thus, such a “beginning” cannot really be fully determined and is based on no more than an experience held in common by those doing the timing.
Although the beginning of any event is relative, the knowing of this (relative) beginning, always lags (is after) the actual (real) event itself. In any and every case/event, we can’t know what has not already happened!
Neri wrote:...a representation is not the same as a real object. Clearly, a conscious experience can never be equivalent to a concrete thing. They are completely different orders of existence.