Car Horns

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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on July 27th, 2015, 3:37 am 

I even found a kickstarter campaign for noise pollution.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... th-america
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Re: Car Horns

Postby BadgerJelly on July 27th, 2015, 4:15 am 

Piece of advice.

If you live in the western world and complain about noise pollution NEVER, I repeat NEVER, visit Ho Chi Minh City ...

:)
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on July 27th, 2015, 4:20 am 

No worries there. The older I get, the further I want to live (including visit) from people density. Hopefully that kickstarter campaign can get funded and we can see a bright red spot for Ho Chi Minh City. :)
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Darby on July 27th, 2015, 8:03 am 

I agree with your dislike of unnecessary car horns, but I suspect you're doomed to be forever unhappy on this particular topic, because getting people to use them less using the noise pollution angle is unlikely to get more than minimal traction. I took up a similar effort about 20 years ago on reducing light pollution (read: for skywatching purposes) in the area I was living in at the time, and garnered only very minimal and short lived results, even with an article in the local paper.

Best to just get used to it. :-/
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Braininvat on July 27th, 2015, 9:46 am 

I've given some thought to the guerilla approach: make an EMP generator and zap any car that bothers me, either a horn problem or a subwoofer problem. My inner 12 year old LOVES this idea. The EMP device can also be handy with noisy house parties, or Animal House situations, if you live near a campus. Pretty soon, though, faraday shielding would be standard option on all electronics, if this approach caught on. Or there could be EMP wars, tit for tat strikes between neighbors....ah well.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Darby on July 27th, 2015, 10:01 am 

Braininvat » July 27th, 2015, 9:46 am wrote:I've given some thought to the guerilla approach: make an EMP generator and zap any car that bothers me, either a horn problem or a subwoofer problem. My inner 12 year old LOVES this idea.


Oh, it'd be loads of squee-worthy fun ... right up until you inadvertantly kill someone with a pacemaker. Then, whether the fun morphs into horrified regret or a rapturous vindictive awakening will depend entirely on how psychologically (un)damaged you are.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Darby on August 11th, 2015, 4:10 pm 

First, file a second police report on the sounds and mention that it's persisting and has escalated to personal harassment, to establish a clear paper trail of proper reporting compliance on your part. Bonus points if you write up a complaint describing the problem and getting your immediate neighbors to sign it, and append that to the police report.

If you get no response from the police after two subsequent report filings, then either consult an attorney or move on to hammurabi methods, and keep a written log of action and countermeasures (just in case she counter-records you).

Get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Shoreline-Marine- ... s=air+horn

Image

They're painfully LOUD, trust me (120 db) ... I used to race sunfish a long time ago, and we used these for officiating races or when sailing in deep water and needed to get the attention of larger boats.

Everytime she comes home at 3am and honks her horn 5x, note it in your log (better still, record it on your cellphone camera), then wait an hour or two for her to fall asleep and give her one sharp blast on your air horn pointed at her window. The only drawback is that doing so makes you just as much a lawbreaker as she is, so the tactic is essentially one of attrition ... minor crime tit for tat.

The only thing in your favor on that angle is if/when she subsequently counter complains, you'll already have your official record of your police reports predating hers when you both go before the judge ... and he/she will hopefully throw the book harder at your neighbor than at you.

The other drawback to the air horn retaliation method is that it's a LOT louder than a car corn, and may turn your neighbors against you.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby someguy1 on August 11th, 2015, 4:27 pm 

I live out in the country. It's those barking dogs, crowing cocks, and chirping birds that'll drive you nuts. I miss city car horns.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Braininvat on August 11th, 2015, 8:04 pm 

Take the high road. The path of reason and proper appeals to authority.

Or check out the Haynes Manual for her make and year of car, and see if the horn's wiring can be accessed without needing to lift hood. There are various ways to interrupt current without having visibly chopped wires. If you're stuck being awake at 4 am anyway, then it's probably a suitable hour for such adjustments. Hum the soundtrack from Mission:Impossible, the old tv series where Barney, always sweating profusely, would toil with wire cutters and alligator clips.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Darby on August 11th, 2015, 11:21 pm 

Yeah, I'm not entirely comfortable suggesting people break the law, even minor ones. Definitely the high road.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Watson on August 12th, 2015, 12:03 am 

Get a yappy little barking dog, and leave it out all night (and all day), or in, when appropriate for you to sleep and the neighbor......... not so much. High road as well, but no crime in letting frickin' Skippy out for a while. Watch a loud movie while he's out there.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Braininvat on August 12th, 2015, 9:14 am 

Darby » August 11th, 2015, 9:21 pm wrote:Yeah, I'm not entirely comfortable suggesting people break the law, even minor ones. Definitely the high road.


Just so it's clear to the casual reader passing through: my post was tongue-in-cheek. I often don't use emoticons, but hope that lines like "hum the Mission: Impossible theme" make clear my intent to jest. (though if I were sleep deprived for several weeks, who knows where my moral compass might deflect....)
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Darby on August 12th, 2015, 9:53 pm 

I was actually referring to my own suggestion about the 120 db airhorn. ;-)
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on September 11th, 2015, 1:39 am 

Taking the high road has been killing me. Right now I have to wait another 5 months for some legal documents to pass. I really don't want to get into it right now. I am not happy these days. My hands are tight for at least five months right now. If this doesn't work out, I will have to take the law into my own hands and I may end up doing things that will really start pissing people off just to get attention drawn to how ridiculous humans are being. I have lots of ideas. Apparently since it isn't against the law and if no one does anything about it I am seriously going to just join the madness "if you can't beat them, join them" and I will have all sorts of noise makers. Most things don't change until you break them totally.

It will probably not really go anywhere though because I don't have any faith in humanity to comprehend certain things anymore. So in the mean time I am spending almost all of my free time in the long process of legally establishing an off-grid home away from what I now see as insanity going on in the world and have given up on it all. I apologize for my lack of response. I am overwhelmed with a lot of stuff right now.

In the mean time I will note that the main source/person of my entire hoise issue is a menace to society and I hope comes crashing back on her. It might be, because without me taking any action I have noticed she has gotten a flat tire, and she speeds to work every night late to work breaking several traffic violations. The other night she almost ran over someone pulling out into the street. A couple days before that there were kids playing right where she was speeding. And yes, the police will not do anything about this either because they have to witness it, and they will not respond unless it's happening. The parents of the children apparently don't care either. There are several youngsters now unsupervised running around dangerous parking lots swinging street poles around vehicles and no one seems to care. I don't remember if I said this in this thread yet or not, but this horn thing was the last straw for me on top of everything else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NriOZ6ofj_Q

And I have also been working online at the non-profit and governmental level now concerning noise pollution with a couple great people. Researching this topic has made me aware that I had no idea just how bad it has gotten for some people in some situations around the world.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Braininvat on September 11th, 2015, 10:16 am 

This is starting to sound crazed, Z. Have you experimented with foam or batting insulation on the bedroom window (s)? The way you are noticing everything bad now is feeding your rage monster. Responding with noise makers will just lead your nemesis to escalate, I would guess.

The NGO path sounds terrific. I will send a check, if that gets some traction.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on September 30th, 2015, 12:11 am 

Documentary coming out in November about noise pollution. They raised >$41,000 on kickstarter last year.
http://www.pursuitofsilence.com/trailer-no-1/

I made public comment at the town meeting yesterday. I think it went well and it's on official record now that I am calling them out to address noise policy that they have been pushing off and I offered my assistance for resources and references to other states, cities, and counties.

I have never been so busy in school as I am this semester. ttyl
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on October 11th, 2015, 11:14 pm 

Please email or write a short letter to your congress person to support this bill. :)

H.R.3384 - Quiet Communities Act of 2015
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... /3384/text
https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr33 ... 3384ih.xml

Things are getting even worse where I live. The state DOT redid the street so more people can park near me. :( Trying to get things figured out to sell and move. Don't know where we are going to go though. Can't afford to live here anymore where I grew up.

Staying at a "friends" house right now while they are out of town. Had the first good nights rest last night that I have had in months.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Braininvat on October 12th, 2015, 11:59 am 

Done. I wrote Kristi Noem (R - SD). Reinstating ONAC in the EPA is a very good idea, and the bill recognizes the noise trends we have talked about here.

If you are in the moving situation a lot of people find themselves in, where you are seeking a quieter location, you probably have driving distances to factor in to your overall cost of relocating. I'm not sure where you are (Tahoe area of NV?), but I expect if you are in the West, things are pretty spread out so that a small sleepy bedroom community might mean too long a drive to work/school/amenities. If it's far enough out to be cheap, then you are faced with long drives and more gas budget. If it's close in enough to be convenient, then it's suburban and expensive. If you want to just buy and lot and build a tiny house on it, then you have the hurdles of subdivisions with stupid covenants that block any architectural alternatives.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on October 12th, 2015, 12:06 pm 

Thanks for writing!

Yup, I am well aware of the commuting problem. Which is one reason I learned how to start my dad's motorcycle a couple days ago. The ancient kick start is not an easy task. I am against commuting but we'll see what happens. My property is only a 20 minute drive from here (but over one of the steepest passes in the US).
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Mjr Houlihan on December 17th, 2015, 5:54 pm 

Dear Z

I have read this with great interest; totally understand how you feel and hope you are settled elsewhere by now?

We’re currently in an almost identical situation that began in Jan 2012. We’d never have stuck it out had we known how long it would go on, how much it would cost in every conceivable way; how much resistance would be put up to doing the obvious, simple, fair, kind and responsible thing by one and all and we had some very dark times of losing faith in humanity but also like you, learned so much, not least about groups and local politics. Was it worth it? No.

We were naive in thinking that by addressing this in a harmless, patient; constructive and non-combative way; it would come right in the end for the benefit of all right? Wrong! And we are still trying to understand not only the resistance but the hostility this gave rise to because it seems completely illogical, irrational and cruel.

We didn’t immediately see that addressing this problem involved so many other issues than just noise but by attempting to solve it, this exposed all manner of system weaknesses and failures in the enforcement of civil law, social dynamics, neighbourhood politics etc. and the result was a good deal of aggressive defensiveness from powerful groups that don’t want to take responsibility for managing/policing the issue or even acknowledge it.

Problem solving complicated by:
Social and group dynamics
Defensive local authorities
Difficulties with interpretation of nuisance
Difficulties with proving intension
Difficulties with enforcement
Defensive Estate managers/Landlords - (In your case: Car manufacturers – liability fears)

The distress is huge and the seriousness of it crept up on us until the damage was done and now we are profoundly stuck; hostages in fact to circumstances we can’t walk away from easily if at all, not without even more irreversible damage – It’s complicated.

Types of noise affect people differently. There are hearing disorders such as misophonia and hyperacusis and some people seem to be completely desensitised to everything, even jackhammers; but noise isn’t used as a form of torture (along with sleep deprivation), for no reason. It can break people down, make them physically ill and drive people insane and that isn’t the fault or oversensitivity of the person suffering it although some will point that particular finger.

And once you have asked nicely for help, and they know it is distressing you and when it would be effortless for them to stop through the anti-social hours at least, without any detriment or loss to them, and they carry on, then the stress is multiplied; it isn't just noise and lack of sleep any more, you have an enemy:

Exacerbating factors:
Sleep loss
Loss of autonomy
Sense of feeling violated
Sense of being persecuted
Sense of injustice
Sense of being unsupported
Disillusionment with systems and authorities

And on top of that enormous burden, you have to be an impeccable victim. Put the slightest foot wrong, even a single exclamation of exasperation and they’ll use it against you, try and provoke you to something they can use as a counter-claim, entrap you.

As far as understanding the motive of anti-social neighbours are concerned, I think it will take a social scientist to explain. Maybe they respond to the request for help as if it is a criticism rather than a request and take offence. Our first approach was with a small thankyou card with daisy on the front, A begging letter really, Paraphrase: ‘Sorry to ask… and hope you don’t mind… and we know this isn’t intentional… but unfortunately the noise has been awakening us at 4am for the last two months…we would be so grateful if you can help… thank you in advance.’ We carefully avoided any accusation but he responded with an immediate threat; “you’ve accused me, you've upset me all day long, you’ve done it now!” etc. He has primitive friends, and knows the estate managers, they targeted us after that, and we’ve been terrified to go out of the house.

This attitude has to be more than being bloody-minded; something to do with status in a community, ‘leg-cocking’ or territorial spraying, some kind of tribal mentality, some kind of primal default, not wanting to be humiliated, fear of loss of face; never learned to problem solve without aggression; something like that but when the authorities let you down as well, that’s very tough. It feels like a betrayal doesn’t it. Thing is, it is the way it has always been but you don’t find that out until it affects you. It isn’t personal in the first instance but they can’t tell you they won’t help and have no intension of doing so and string you along with false reassurance until you finally realise that’s what they are doing and you can’t quite believe it, the discrepancy between what they are supposed to do and what they actually do. You test it, you go through all the right channels, you are diplomatic, you don’t want them to get nasty but they do, at even the hint of a complaint and suddenly, they are unwittingly colluding with your anti-social neighbour because they want to defend their negligence and there is only one way they can do that and it’s dishonestly and at your expense and there is nothing you can do because they have power and they are merciless.

Brainvat Gorilla methods; yes absolutely with conditions that it is not revenge, does not break the law; are harmless to things and people and with the specific intension of deterring the anti-social behaviour. That leaves a surprisingly wide scope; we’re still looking for Mr Miyagi but in the meanwhile we have to bear with what seems impossible to bear and yet somehow, your mind changes gear and you don’t know how but you get through. We take the attitude of one ordeal at a time and don’t’ see it as a continuum. It’s a kind of denial but we try to forget about it in the spaces. Like you, this whole experience has challenged everything I believed in. My preferred philosophy of life has remained intact – just about – but it only really works if you are in a community with significant numbers of others that share it, otherwise, in this world, it makes you a victim and so my beliefs have been tweaked and are under review.

We are not in a position to do this or we would have but we heard of other neighbours with the same problem who decided to try silent intimidation. There were enough of them willing to do this where they were and without laying a single hand upon the offender or saying a word, they waited for him in a group, faces covered and followed him for a bit. Their 4 year problem stopped immediately and they never had to repeat it. I have concerns about that method but understand why they resorted to it; we are more in favour of some kind of ‘group think’ psyops method of suggestion. Goodness only knows how we will go about this but if Daren Brown can make people rob banks, maybe it is possible to suggest they stop bullying us. This is very doubtful but we may have more luck with persuading the authorities to do what they are supposed to do and they should take it far more seriously than they do. We know several people that have lost thousands of dollars having to relocate after years of investing energy into being long suffering; all futile.

The right to quiet enjoyment
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona ... +enjoyment

It’s very impressive the efforts you have gone to in order to make something constructive come out of your suffering; that is incredible given how much strain you are under physically, let alone emotionally. Totally inspiring.

Thank you for sharing this, very good luck and hope you are moved and settled now.

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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on December 17th, 2015, 6:29 pm 

Mjr Houlihan

Thank you for your efforts on this front. It is an issue that most people don't speak out about and would rather just silently be intimidated and move. I am still dealing with this every day. I got a break for a little while as the next door offender switched vehicles but it's back to normal. Since I have been making an issue about it, it feels like less people in her family are using the horn feature because they know, but they still do it and it's mostly her. Sometimes I still feel they do it on purpose when they seem me come home too. It truly feels like we are living in loony bin world sometimes. The neighbor across from me that leaves early in the morning and has a remote start on her car that sounds the horn feature when she uses it started using it again despite my conversation with her a month ago about all this. The crazy thing is, I am now aware that they are using white noise machines inside their house to tune out other peoples noise. How crazy is that? They are upset by other people doing this crap, and yet they contribute to it!

There are more people out there dealing with this issue than people think, but the problem is they don't speak out about it.

The good news is I am working with a small group of people right now who are passionate about this issue and I feel could make a significant impact when it comes to noise pollution in this nation. Given the depth of your email and what you have been through I think we should communicate through email if you want to help us fight this nationally and internationally.

PS: I not only becoming familiar with the main judge in town, but I discovered the other day that I have also friends with the substitute judge in town who both he and his wife hate noise pollution after having lived along a harbor somewhere in New England. I haven't brought it to that level yet, but if it does come to that, my chances are looking pretty good. I have mostly just found a way to deal with it, changing my state of mind, being grateful for what I do have, and trying to live my life with an optimistic outlook for the day I can get away from this loony bin.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Mjr Houlihan on December 17th, 2015, 9:45 pm 

zetreque » December 17th, 2015, 6:29 pm wrote:Mjr Houlihan

Thank you for your efforts on this front. It is an issue that most people don't speak out about and would rather just silently be intimidated and move.


“He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight”. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Sorry to hear you are still going through it.

The question about whether or not to defend your rights or submit to the intimidation isn’t as straightforward as it seems because most often people in this situation are dealing with unknown dynamics and can’t make an informed choice. If the ‘nuisance’ is demonstrable and easy to prove, then you stay in the belief that what is right will prevail and when that doesn’t happen, you have a much bigger battle on your hands and that may not be immediately obvious.

In all honestly, we would have moved had we known what was ahead. We didn’t see it as a battle or in terms of winning or losing. It was just a simple request that went bad. It wasn’t heroism that made us stay. After that, we couldn’t believe that no one be able to persuade him, support him in backing down, or intervene when he got worse and the whole community were aware. Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it but if we could wind the clock back, we would not have gone directly to the neighbour, it was incredibly naïve, we judged him by our own standards because he had seemed friendly and if we had received a cute card apologising and asking for help, we would have gone at once to offer reassurance and do our best, not threaten someone for making a blatantly passive request. That was our first mistake. Stupidly, we thought we were being discrete by going directly to the person concerned. I now know that the odds against that going well are very high.

Our second mistake was the failure to understand how difficult it is for the authorities to police (small p) noise nuisance. The resources are not there, it’s too common a problem and they can’t tell you they won’t help because they are legally obliged to do so and instead, you meet with stonewalling, obfuscations, excuses, etc. and worse if you start to ask questions. They set the bar ridiculously high before they will intervene. Diplomacy won’t spare you if they feel defensive and are wary of being held accountable for negligence. This gets political and nasty so fast you barely know what’s happening until too late.

What I wish we’d had been smart enough do instead was make an attempt to address it as a community issue and in a very casual, low key way, not let it be generally known the degree to which the problem was affecting us (some folk do it more if they know that) but found out who the people in the immediate community that had influence; assessed the relationships and alliances; whether or not they were sympathetic, capable and or motivated to raise it as a general matter without identifying individuals and so on, or in your shoes, maybe get a remote start horn feature enabled on our car so the neighbour didn’t feel we were singling her out and we could put ourselves in a bargaining position and so on. That is what I have learned it is necessary to consider doing in human groups. Simple right and wrong don’t come into it and by the time it has got to the stage we all are in, we have been advised it rarely gets better and often gets worse because it isn’t about noise anymore; it’s about turf, boundaries and tribes; the stuff of all war and unless someone can build the horn users and door slammers a golden bridge to back down with dignity intact, we are unlikely ever to get the peace that is our legal right and it will be a losing battle to try. Even if we legally succeed, the heat of revenge will be in them and things could get dangerous.

I only hope you can hold onto the awareness that this isn’t personal and don’t get drawn into competing or winning; the issue is much bigger. Your neighbour is not the issue. There are millions of semi-civilized people in the world; she is just another one that is only partly humanized, a primate in a dress, you can’t change her and probably shouldn’t try. Uncivilized humans are the most dangerous animals on the planet. Don’t lose more than your health over this.

As far as car horns go, what is the manufacturer’s position on this?
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on December 18th, 2015, 12:58 am 

Mjr Houlihan » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:45 pm wrote:
What I wish we’d had been smart enough do instead was make an attempt to address it as a community issue and in a very casual, low key way, not let it be generally known the degree to which the problem was affecting us (some folk do it more if they know that)



That is very similar to what my friend who is an expert on this topic has observed and the rest of what you said is very true.

Mjr Houlihan » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:45 pm wrote:because it isn’t about noise anymore; it’s about turf, boundaries and tribes;


It sounds like you are living in a pretty low income area, but this is true even in ritzy places. People love to form alliances and allies. I think a lot of people love holding power over others. It's a bully mentality. My neighbor is one and if it weren't for laws holding me back, she is the type that needs to be put in her place through force. Unfortunately these people can hide behind the law so we must be smarter and battle them out over brains which is why we try to take the high road.

Mjr Houlihan » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:45 pm wrote: is only partly humanized, a primate in a dress, you can’t change her and probably shouldn’t try. Uncivilized humans are the most dangerous animals on the planet. Don’t lose more than your health over this.


Yes exactly, and most human out there are like this (including some family members of mine I won't name). I have to see and treat them as animals.

This is why we are focusing on the bigger picture. I had a chance to talk to my retired judge friend tonight about this issue. He was having a hard time wondering how we would enforce something like this. That's when I tried to explain to him the bigger picture of going after the automakers. As much as we hate laws and governmental power. We need it to control the masses of "primates in dress" that are uneducated.

The auto makers like anyone out to make money, are just try to sell a product that appeals to the masses and the masses are uneducated idiots that love sounds and being able to 4x4 through the forest or landscape ripping it to shreds in their 10 mile per gallon hummers. What more do you expect from a sub fossil fuel industry? They are even implementing features where people can honk their horn controlled from their cellphone now. This is why we are fighting it on a governmental EPA and Health Department level now. On a personal level, I am migrating my life into the sustainability field where it's the goal of the sustainability industry to reach the new generations getting them to think about the bigger and longer term picture on an interdisciplinary level. As you have learned, something as simple as noise pollution from honking horns is a societal, cultural, psychological, environmental, economical.... complicated issue. Sustainability interdisciplinary educated people that are the future generations need to be awakened to this fact so that they can not only be leaders to guide the uneducated, but also live their own lives realizing that they don't need a 10 mile per gallon hummer with a 100 decibel horn that honks every time they open the trunk to be happy in life. That it's not cool to be a wasteful disrespectful jerk. It's changing culture (mindset) if we are to survive as a species.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on December 18th, 2015, 2:50 am 

Thanks to my unfortunate heightened awareness now from my experience I notice it everywhere.

I was watching the the movie "The Gambler" the other night on youtube. (of course the movie was taken down immediately for copywriter infringement or I would share the link) If you ever watch this movie, and I do not recommend it because I didn't like the movie, but if you ever watch it pay close attention at around 1 hour 37 seconds into the movie when he is in his office throwing books around and pulls out his desk drawer you will hear someone locking their car outside somewhere far off in the distance... that tiny itty bittle little sound annoys the shit out of me now and probably a big part of the reason I do not like the movie haha. Of course we know to never lead onto anyone that it annoys me, because jerks will use that to their advantage and annoy me on purpose, but goes to show you the the power of sound and it's psychological effect that can be used as torture.

I hope I hear the sound somewhere in the star wars movie because of some jerk out in the parking-lot of the set or sound recording studio locking their car. A blockbuster movie like that you could bring this issue to the attention of the whole world about how this sound has invaded our lives in a bad way. Not that it would ever happen because of all the studio sound that goes into complex sound tracks for movies, but even if it did happen I doubt people would understand the issue as I do and why it's bad. I hope that some hollywood actor or screen writer puts this issue into a movie some day soon because that's how we change culture. If you can make it uncool in a popular TV show, then people might listen.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Braininvat on December 18th, 2015, 11:15 am 

Love that phrase, "primate in a dress." Too true.

Possibly a fruitful legislative tack would be to focus on this: if people come to associate a car honk with locking the doors, which is a non-warning, then isn't that a safety issue since this shift means that the honk is less effective for its original purpose?

Hot Lips is right, you can't win, or even impart a teaching moment, with the aggro-defensive baboons.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on December 18th, 2015, 12:20 pm 

I am awoken by car horns again this morning with only 5 hours of sleep.
I didn't tell you guys the latest. I will NEVER go back to home depot again after my last experience there.
One of the stores here installed this video camera monitor sensor system in several isles right at the front of the store.
Every time someone walks by it in the isle it goes "DING DONG..... DING DONG" really loud. Twice as loud as your average convenience store door sensor chime or home door bell.
They say it is to prevent theft from the bins where they sell 17 cent parts. Ridiculous!
It's already stressful shopping in these stores sometimes when you are remodeling or designing something for your house, then add this feature on as you walk back and forth at the bins looking for your parts as you try to figure out which parts you need.

And guess what? It does not prevent theft! I will stop there and leave that to your imagination with something being mailed back to the company anonymously with a nice letter inspired by this new feature. :)

I used to joke about bringing my own car horn into stores since they do this repeatedly in any parkinglot in the US now. I guess it's no longer a joke and I should start doing it.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Mjr Houlihan on December 18th, 2015, 10:25 pm 

[quote="Braininvat » December 18th, 2015, 11:15 am"]Possibly a fruitful legislative tack would be to focus on this: if people come to associate a car honk with locking the doors, which is a non-warning, then isn't that a safety issue since this shift means that the honk is less effective for its original purpose?
quote]

That’s a great idea, and Z's probably already looked into this but along the same lines, could this ‘locking honk feature’ be considered a health hazard? The FTC can pull products from shelves that are even suspected of being dangerous so why not this given the numbers and degree to which people are affected by it? These car giants are as powerful as the gun lobby but you never know, it may not meet with the same resistance they put up against the electric car. You’d probably need someone like Michael Moore to front a campaign, with all the noise abatement groups nationally, get some stats on numbers of complaints etc.

Federal Trade Commission
https://www.ftc.gov/

What about community action groups?
http://www.sheriffs.org/content/nationa ... ch-program

Maybe they could host a national petition to introduce a curfew on use of this horn feature between 8pm – 8am. If they can police litter and dog fouling then how much easier it would be to impose a hefty fine on a repeat offender? If you can do the math on how much money could be raised by fines, the local Mayors may be a bit more interested in supporting a curfew. That way, you can by-pass the car giants who may follow suit and voluntarily adapt the feature without any pressure.
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on December 18th, 2015, 11:16 pm 

Here is some psychology thoughts.

Hypothesis:
People are more annoyed by sounds that others make as compared to when they make the same sound. One reason is because they are expecting the sound when they make it.

Evidence:
When children act childish and repeat everything you say it is annoying. lol

Test:
Act childish and make a noise repeating every time someone else makes a noise. I often think about building a sensor to detect when a car honks which would trigger my own horn to honk. I'm just acknowledging that I heard them honk. That was the purpose of their honk right? *smirk*
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Re: Car Horns

Postby Mjr Houlihan on December 19th, 2015, 1:21 am 

zetreque » December 18th, 2015, 11:16 pm wrote:Here is some psychology thoughts.*


Ah ha... remote baboon training yes and if you have ever trained a dog you will be at an advantage but you have to be very careful with that and I wouldn't recommend it because you are engaging with them in a mind game and that cranks the intensity up another notch; the last thing you need.

For goodness sake don't underestimate them just because they are ignorant and uneducated; they are almost certainly as intelligent; yours has been applied to education but theirs has been channelled into being more streetwise and manipulative, cunning and ruthless than you will ever be, nor should you want to be. Moreover, if they have an agenda and you are outnumbered, it's a losing game and they will turn the tables on you for provocation or nuisance. Be very wary of set ups, don't become predictable, pretend you are not as bothered as you were, appear to retreat.

What you need is a sense of control back over your own personal space and the ability to meet your primary needs; sleep is one of them. Her car horn invades your space, IMHO its an assault because it physically affects you. sound if felt isn't it and she knows what she is doing, she knows the affect it is having upon you and she doesn't have to do it. that makes it harassment and abuse. I know exactly how hard it is to contain what that gives rise to inside. She is hurting you very badly and your most urgent priority should be managing that and looking after your own well being, not attempting to humanize a sociopath. It's impossible. You can't do it. I sincerely believe that you should try to stop thinking about how to stop her harassing you and to control her because you can't and that's the whole abuse right there.

That being said, you may get somewhere with peer pressure. It will depend upon the neighbourhood dynamics, how popular she is, how much sympathy you have etc. but have a Google on anti-bullying programs in schools, not least the OLWEUS project. These can be adapted to community situations. She is going to be far more worried about the opinion of the community and in particular her friends. Try a little networking in the immediate neighbourhood or better still, get someone else to see what the strength of feeling is about it because you may have more support than you think and sometime people are more willing to help if an advocate asks on your behalf.

We have a voluntary advocacy service near us; it wasn't any good but you may have a better one or something similar like victim support, anti-bullying networks and so on. that is almost certainly the best approach. You need the neighbours to support you and that needs to be handled by experts or your problem could multiply.

In the meanwhile, make sure you get 8 hours sleep in every 24, even if you have to take an hour here and there and if you have to catch up in the day, don't let her know or she won't be able to resist honking you awake; and exercise; it is sometimes the only way to work the stress hormones out of your system so try to bear that in mind next time all that adrenaline is driving your thoughts to negativity.

You are doing such a fantastic job of channelling all that angst into something constructive and even if you don't succeed in getting very far with it, you have created an invaluable stepping stone for the next person to take things further with.

Getting busy now with Christmas almost upon us but I will keep checking in to see you things are progressing.

Good luck
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Re: Car Horns

Postby zetreque on December 19th, 2015, 1:27 am 

My experiment was meant more broadly, sorry if it sounded like I was thinking of just on a small scale individual case. :)
I have some ideas for a public awareness event along those lines. Don't want to get into it now though.

Good luck on Christmas. Make sure you check into the stuff I PMed you because that's where the effort and energy should be put. On a bigger picture long term culture changing basis.
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