Who's supporting Clinton?

[ronjanec]

ronjanec,

Now watch as I convert everyone to my first choice, Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party. I'll have the entire forum voting for him!

Everyone!? Even mtbturtle!? Pride goeth before a fall NCE. :)

[Natural ChemE]

ronjanec,

Pft, I'll show ya how it's done.

First, I'll point out that Mitt Romney, the 2012 Republican nominee, had these comments on Trump:

Mitt Romney suggested Friday that Donald Trump's election could legitimize racism and misogyny, ushering in a change in the moral fabric of American society.

The 2012 Republican nominee, who has openly opposed Trump's candidacy, went further than he has before in outlining to CNN's Wolf Blitzer how the country's character would suffer in a Trump White House. Trump's rhetoric has caused even some other Republicans to label him a racist, and Romney said he would not be able to paper over his incendiary remarks.

"I don't want to see trickle-down racism" Romney said in an interview here in a suite overlooking the Wasatch Mountains, where he is hosting his yearly ideas conference. "I don't want to see a president of the United States saying things which change the character of the generations of Americans that are following. Presidents have an impact on the nature of our nation, and trickle-down racism, trickle-down bigotry, trickle-down misogyny, all these things are extraordinarily dangerous to the heart and character of America."

So, anyone who voted Republican last election, know that the guy you voted for last time isn't for Trump. Romney's pro-small-government and pro-military, but as a savvy businessman, he knows that Trump's poor moral fiber will harm America.

However, Romney thought that the Libertarian nominee, Gary Johnson, might be a viable option despite Johnson's support for marijuana legalization:

Romney, who actively sought to recruit an independent, third-party challenger to Trump, also conceded that a credible candidate will not emerge. But he did show a new openness to one non-Trump candidate, libertarian Gary Johnson, whom he did not rule out voting for.

[...]

Romney's comments on "The Situation Room" are some of the highest-profile support bestowed upon the libertarian ticket, which is almost certain to be less funded compared to the GOP and Democratic lines. He did however express an uneasiness with Johnson, given his position on marijuana legalization.

"Marijuana makes people stupid," Romney quipped.

So, Johnson might be the best choice conservatives have this time around. Who wants Trump when the dude made a name for himself shouting "You're fired!" to hard-working Americans?

Lomax, you're a PCF admin and a pretty liberal fellow, correct? So, after reading what's been said here, do you plan to vote for anyone other than Gary Johnson in the 2016 US Presidential election?*


*Note: This question was asked as a joke with ronjanec about me getting folks to vote for Johnson; Lomax isn't in the US, which makes the question very misleading. Just explaining the joke so I don't mislead casual readers with such silliness.

[zetreque]

http://www.downvids.net/demopocalypse-jon-stewart-comes-out-of-retirement-813527.html

Vote for Bernie
Or Mr. T (A-Team)
but not trump :)

[ronjanec]

NCE,

"So, Johnson might be the best choice conservatives have this time around"(!!!) Any conservative voting for Johnson, is indirectly a vote for Hillary Clinton winning the November election you crafty fellow :)

(But on the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with any Democrat who wants to vote for Johnson)

[Natural ChemE]

I have absolutely no problem with any Democrat who wants to vote for Johnson

Ha! Now even you're supporting Johnson! Now if this were a serious thing, I'd have some journalists quote you out-of-context as advocating voters support Johnson, conveniently omitting both your qualification that you meant Democratic voters and definitely omitting your comment's intended meaning.

And that's how to politics.

[Natural ChemE]

Update -

Currently PredictWise has:

• Hillary wins the Democratic nomination at 92%;
• Hillary wins the overall election at 65%.

Versus:

• Sanders wins the Democratic nomination at 8%;
• Sanders wins the overall election at 5.7%.

Currently PredictWise has:

• Hillary wins the Democratic nomination at 100%;
• Hillary wins the overall election at 74%.

Sanders has been pretty reluctant to acknowledge objective reality, but a recent story suggests that he's getting there:

Bernie Sanders vows to work with Hillary Clinton as Democrats move toward party unity, CNN (June 9, 2016).

[ronjanec]

I have absolutely no problem with any Democrat who wants to vote for Johnson

Ha! Now even you're supporting Johnson! Now if this were a serious thing, I'd have some journalists quote you out-of-context as advocating voters support Johnson, conveniently omitting both your qualification that you meant Democratic voters and definitely omitting your comment's intended meaning.

And that's how to politics.

You sound like someone who could have an extremely bright future as an MSM television network senior vice-president NCE!

[ronjanec]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-1 ... s-ceilings Hillary "breaking the glass ceiling"!

[hyksos]

Crap like this makes me want to flip a coin in the voting booth.

https://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/anothe ... tatus_quo/

[ronjanec]

Crap like this makes me want to flip a coin in the voting booth.

https://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/anothe ... tatus_quo/

Hillary "is the conservative candidate"!? If Hillary is a conservative, then I must be a liberal! Woe is me!

[hyksos]

No, Hillary is not a 'conservative'. The point of the article is that she is a war hawk. This enamors her to the neocons, because those guys want the USA to bomb and invade nations.

[zetreque]

Today Bernie Sanders officially endorses Hillary Clinton. Somehow I got on his mailing list and he wrote a long email about how important it is not to let Trump win, and only one sentence about him endorsing Hillary as the best option for continuing his movement instead of going backward with republican representatives. I sadly agree with him, but just barely. Said he is going to continue to campaign to put certain individuals in office locally to nationally.

[SciameriKen]

Today Bernie Sanders officially endorses Hillary Clinton. Somehow I got on his mailing list and he wrote a long email about how important it is not to let Trump win, and only one sentence about him endorsing Hillary as the best option for continuing his movement instead of going backward with republican representatives. I sadly agree with him, but just barely. Said he is going to continue to campaign to put certain individuals in office locally to nationally.

I feel like we are watching a wounded beaten down warrior who is made to kneel in front of the evil emperor :(


Heck of a run for Bernie though!

[zetreque]

Today Bernie Sanders officially endorses Hillary Clinton. Somehow I got on his mailing list and he wrote a long email about how important it is not to let Trump win, and only one sentence about him endorsing Hillary as the best option for continuing his movement instead of going backward with republican representatives. I sadly agree with him, but just barely. Said he is going to continue to campaign to put certain individuals in office locally to nationally.

I feel like we are watching a wounded beaten down warrior who is made to kneel in front of the evil emperor :(


Heck of a run for Bernie though!

That's a horrible description. I don't feel that way at all. lol
He made a major change in this country. Gave hope to millions and isn't going anywhere.

[SciameriKen]

Today Bernie Sanders officially endorses Hillary Clinton. Somehow I got on his mailing list and he wrote a long email about how important it is not to let Trump win, and only one sentence about him endorsing Hillary as the best option for continuing his movement instead of going backward with republican representatives. I sadly agree with him, but just barely. Said he is going to continue to campaign to put certain individuals in office locally to nationally.

I feel like we are watching a wounded beaten down warrior who is made to kneel in front of the evil emperor :(


Heck of a run for Bernie though!

That's a horrible description. I don't feel that way at all. lol
He made a major change in this country. Gave hope to millions.

lol :D

In any case, Hillary has recently made some huge concessions in the platform, particularly free college for all and single payer health care, plus a couple other thing, from Bernie's perspective the endorsement makes sense.

[zetreque]

That's because Bernie is claiming credit for those concessions in his email.

[SciameriKen]

Here is the democratic Platform:

https://demconvention.com/wp-content/up ... 7.1.16.pdf

My biggest issue and the reason I liked Sanders so much was actually poorly addressed in the platform - campaign finance (page 17-18) -- basically they say they will over turn citizens united and make voting more accessible. Citizen's United is just the tip of the iceberg of the problems of campaign finance.

[Paul Anthony]

In any case, Hillary has recently made some huge concessions in the platform, particularly free college for all and single payer health care, plus a couple other thing, from Bernie's perspective the endorsement makes sense.

Of course she has. She needs Bernie's supporters if she hopes to win in November. These concessions won't do the trick. That was clear from the outbursts at the press conference in NH. Many Bernie supporters hate Hillary and don't trust that she will actually do what she is promising. They are probably right.

[kidjan]

Late to the thread, but I support her candidacy. She is far from my favorite politician, but I believe it irresponsible to take any action which may empower Donald Trump. That includes A) voting for a third party or B) electing not to vote at all. I think Trump being elected president is dangerous to this nation--literally, figuratively, financially, morally--and possibly the world. I cannot recall a more incompetent, unqualified, or ethically bankrupt candidate making it this far in a presidential election. Love of country should trump dislike of Clinton.

Lastly, I think Clinton is a much better candidate than thirty years of coordinated political assault leads the American people to believe.

[zetreque]

kidjan, I agree, though I don't support her candidacy for any reason other than to defeat Trump. The only good thing Trump would do as far as I know would be get rid of obamacare. I would thumbs up your post but I don't understand your last sentence.

[kidjan]

The only good thing Trump would do as far as I know would be get rid of obamacare.

Respectfully, I disagree. It is not a perfect program by any measure (no plan will be), but I reject backward progress without a viable alternative to the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act.

I would thumbs up your post but I don't understand your last sentence.

There has been a very coordinated effort to discredit the Clintons over the last thirty years by the Republican party--that's hardly controversial, it's just how politics work. That is not to say the Clintons are innocent saints who have done no wrong, or Democrats wouldn't do the same. Do not mistake this statement as me handwaving away any indiscretion.

My point is with Hillary Clinton, I think the effort has been so long and so coordinated and so consistent that it is extremely difficult to separate a weird Republican narrative about her (lying crony who has done nothing and should be jailed) with a weird Democratic narrative (dedicated accomplished public servant) with reality (???). But I think the reality is the dominant narrative about Clinton is in fact the Republican one. So much so that it is a surprisingly common thing to hear Democratic candidates begrudgingly voice their support for her. I believe that Republican theme is incorrect on many accounts.

[zetreque]

I will disagree with you 110% about the affordable care act. It is the biggest blow to my American freedom I can think of. It undermines everything freedom is about. I am dealing with in full force right now. It just raised the tuition price of going to college by at least a couple thousand. If you like it you must be rich or have some good steady job and income where you like paying insurance companies to pocket your money and basically rape you with statistics in their favor. I support transparent taxes for healthcare, I do not support capitalism, non-transparency garbage. It's enough to make me not vote for Hillary and risk Trump because this country deserves him for what's going on.

[TheVat]

You understand that you would be voting for a bigoted manchild sociopath who would have access to the missile launch codes, right? And that's okay, so long as he keeps his campaign promises (snort! guffaw!) on healthcare. Hmm.

[Paul Anthony]

You all realize, I hope, that most everyone is voting against a candidate while very few are voting for either Hillary or Trump.

I will be voting for Gary Johnson, partly because he is a better candidate and partly because this year may be our best chance to break the hold of the two-party system that has given us such terrible choices. No, I don't think he can win, but if he can win even one state he will have strengthened the concept of a viable third party.

If he wins several states, he could prevent both major candidates from winning the necessary number of electoral votes.

Ordinarily, a vote for a third-party candidate is a wasted vote. This time, it could help change the system.

Rather than vote for someone you don't like because you dislike the other even more, let's vote against both unlikable choices.

[zetreque]

I am almost with you on that Paul, voting for a third party to make a stance and hopefully give power and a message to the future elections, is a good idea. My point is this healthcare act is almost enough to make me do something like that. That is a choice a lot of people are trying to make right now. Do they hate a certain candidate enough to vote against the other or do they make a stand and give their voice to the future? Every election there is a group of people faced with this decision but this time around it's even stronger. There are thousands of people who claim they will not vote for anyone but Bernie.

[zetreque]

This is off topic, but facebook stats are strange. They don't appear to be any indication of voter opinion but I wonder what insights can be gained into the world of social media.

Obama has 2.481 million followers/likes
Hillary has 4.516 million
Trump has 9.476 million
Mitt Romney has 10.561 million
John McCain 0.911 million

Obama beat Romney in 2012 and McCain in 2008
Hillary has almost twice as many as Obama and Trump has 1 million less than Romney. From this small sample it looks like Republican pres candidates are far more popular on FB (no surprise with Hillary there IMO lol) with McCain being an outlier.

Another twist to this story is http://www.fastcompany.com/1207594/how- ... a-campaign

[kidjan]

I will disagree with you 110% about the affordable care act.

You're entitled to your opinion. The ACA is the only reason my sister-in-law (who is special needs and virtually uninsurable) is covered. I will not backpedal on that.

Go ahead: vote for Trump. That will make the ACA look like small potatoes by the time he's done.

[kidjan]

I will be voting for Gary Johnson, partly because he is a better candidate...

That's fine--just make sure you don't complain when a sexist sociopath with poor impulse control is literally the leader of the free world. Because it isn't just your vote--it's your words that matter here. Asking people to vote third party is literally inviting a Trump presidency.

[zetreque]

I will disagree with you 110% about the affordable care act.

You're entitled to your opinion. The ACA is the only reason my sister-in-law (who is special needs and virtually uninsurable) is covered.

I am happy to hear that your relative is covered. That is great it worked out for you. I have not been so fortunate and neither has other people who I am finding who just encountered it. ACA is also the reason college debt, at least mine is going to go up, and more people are going to be even more poor while insurance companies get richer. I am not voting for trump but this ACA is enough sadly to have other people vote for him. Both Trump and Clinton want to take away our freedom. On one side you have mandatory insurance placed on people who don't want it/can't afford it and pro fracking among other things, and on the other you have martial law his way or the highway.

[Paul Anthony]

I will be voting for Gary Johnson, partly because he is a better candidate...

That's fine--just make sure you don't complain when a sexist sociopath with poor impulse control is literally the leader of the free world. Because it isn't just your vote--it's your words that matter here. Asking people to vote third party is literally inviting a Trump presidency.

...Or a Clinton presidency. Why do you assume a Libertarian would only pull votes from a Democrat?