'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrity

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Re: 'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrit

Postby Lozza on June 26th, 2019, 2:20 pm 

Serpent » June 26th, 2019, 7:17 am wrote:One minor point. I'm not a US citizen, so I can't affect any of these unfol --- unravelling events. I'm a horrified Canadian bystander, getting some of the ungawa splashed on me, with no power to affect that, either.


I apologize for the slur. :)

But you were puzzling me while I was thinking that you were American, as Americans don't have the view you have proffered. The incredibly pervasive propaganda machine in the USA has done its job effectively, so now knowing that you're Canadian makes perfect sense of your objective views of the US government. Otherwise I was starting to think, are you a reincarnation of Gore Vidal...lol

The fathead rival federal party is campaigning for the next election on rescinding the carbon tax altogether.
Plus ca change...


Only until they win, if they win office, then they'll back-flip and serve their corporate masters. They're just trying to get people like yourself on-side so that they can get into office. The game will change afterwards if and when they win office.
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Re: 'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrit

Postby Serpent on June 26th, 2019, 5:31 pm 

Lozza » June 26th, 2019, 1:20 pm wrote:[The fathead rival federal party is campaigning for the next election on rescinding the carbon tax altogether. ]

Only until they win, if they win office, then they'll back-flip and serve their corporate masters.

No, it's the other way around. The Liberals enacted carbon tax. Those guys are campaigning for even more oil, even less climate action.
What they regularly lie about is employment, health care and education - which they always promise not to hurt and invariably do, the minute they get into power. Then it's all got be rebuilt once they're out.

By fathead party I mean the ones who call themselves Conservative. Before the present faction bonked the real conservatives over the head and stole their name, that party was more or less sincerely conservative - pro-US, pro-business, pro-church, anti-labour, anti-immigrant, anti-welfare, anti-change - repugnant, but not entirely loathsome.
The new batch is proudly loathsome.
They get elected because enough of the people have learned to embrace loathing.

I used to vote solid NDP - labour, but they've drifted so far to the right, you can't tell them apart from the Liberals anymore. Well, they've had to, I guess, as all labour parties have: the working class has been disappeared: we're all middle class now, or wannabee.
S'what it say on the bumper-sticker; it must be true. Ish.
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Re: 'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrit

Postby Lozza on June 26th, 2019, 10:21 pm 

Serpent » June 27th, 2019, 8:31 am wrote:
Lozza » June 26th, 2019, 1:20 pm wrote:[The fathead rival federal party is campaigning for the next election on rescinding the carbon tax altogether. ]

Only until they win, if they win office, then they'll back-flip and serve their corporate masters.

No, it's the other way around. The Liberals enacted carbon tax. Those guys are campaigning for even more oil, even less climate action.


My bad.

What they regularly lie about is employment, health care and education


Don't start me on that! Oops, too late! Our Conservative government in the late 1990's changed how inflation and employment figures are calculated. Inflation figures now EXCLUDE mortgages, rents, utilities, fuel and food staples except milk and bread. WTF is left except luxury items? So guess what? Inflation figures are low. With employment figures, "full-time" job was calculated as working a 38 hour week. Now the term has been changed to "permanent position" and working one day a month qualifies in the figures as permanent employment. So employment figures are high.

I hate politicians, but only passionately and with every fibre of my being.

By fathead party I mean the ones who call themselves Conservative. Before the present faction bonked the real conservatives over the head and stole their name, that party was more or less sincerely conservative - pro-US, pro-business, pro-church, anti-labour, anti-immigrant, anti-welfare, anti-change - repugnant, but not entirely loathsome.
The new batch is proudly loathsome.
They get elected because enough of the people have learned to embrace loathing.


I can see that you're as delighted as me. Here, the general mood of the public is that outside of the "true believers", we vote to avoid being fined, or merely vote the current party out because we're just sick of them and want someone else to grow sick of. Every now and then something happens whereby you find yourself saying, "well I'm glad they did that", but only out of surprise.

I used to vote solid NDP - labour, but they've drifted so far to the right, you can't tell them apart from the Liberals anymore. Well, they've had to, I guess, as all labour parties have: the working class has been disappeared: we're all middle class now, or wannabee.
S'what it say on the bumper-sticker; it must be true. Ish.


Yes, a little earlier in this thread in a conversation to someone else, I described the left wing using right wing policies and election promises, forcing the right wing to use left wing election policies to win office. Professional liars.

I apply this simple rule...I care not for what ANY politician has to say, the only thing I'm interested in is what they put their signature to. That's the only thing that tells me what I want to know, it's just unfortunate that it's afterwards, not beforehand.

Mark Twain said it best..."If voting meant anything at all, they wouldn't let you do it."
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Re: 'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrit

Postby Serpent on June 26th, 2019, 11:26 pm 

Lozza » June 26th, 2019, 9:21 pm wrote: Our Conservative government in the late 1990's changed how inflation and employment figures are calculated.

90's? That's just past the Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney Axis. They gave all their successors license to rewrite all the dictionaries, constitutions and contracts.

I hate politicians, but only passionately and with every fibre of my being.

I won't go full Hunter Thompson, but will admit that the last one I actually wanted to vote for died eight years ago.

Mark Twain said it best..."If voting meant anything at all, they wouldn't let you do it."

Lots of places - in purportedly democratic countries - they don't!
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Re: 'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrit

Postby Lozza on July 2nd, 2019, 12:14 am 

Serpent » June 27th, 2019, 2:26 pm wrote:
Lozza » June 26th, 2019, 9:21 pm wrote: Our Conservative government in the late 1990's changed how inflation and employment figures are calculated.

90's? That's just past the Reagan/Thatcher/Mulroney Axis. They gave all their successors license to rewrite all the dictionaries, constitutions and contracts.


Yep, but until about the turn of the millennium, Australia lagged behind the rest of the Western Economies in most areas.

I hate politicians, but only passionately and with every fibre of my being.

I won't go full Hunter Thompson, but will admit that the last one I actually wanted to vote for died eight years ago.


The only Prime Minister I would have voted for was fired just as I came of voting age, Gough Whitlam.

Mark Twain said it best..."If voting meant anything at all, they wouldn't let you do it."

Lots of places - in purportedly democratic countries - they don't!


Those countries are good examples of political labels meaning nothing. We don't live in democracies either, we live in what I would term "democratic aristocracies" since we vote for representatives of wealth instead of representatives of the people. Our illusion of democracy is no different or better than anyone else's, but we've had thriving industrialization and capitalism to drive our illusions of "democracy". As a collective, we conflate the two (democracy and capitalism) to be the same thing, and though they compliment each other, they are not the same thing, one being a political dogma, the other being an economic model. When politicians talk of "freedom", they are talking of the economic model, the freedom to conduct business any way they want to, especially in foreign nations, and the freedom to remain unaccountable as a politician. While when citizens talk of "freedom" they are referring to a political status. The disconnect is in the connotations of the language that's used ...and used selectively.
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Re: 'Post-Truth Politics' - Collapse in Information Integrit

Postby Mossling on July 10th, 2019, 9:53 pm 

I think that this is an interesting turn of events considering the present post-truth climate, where news organizations can get away with spinning and insinuating fact with apparent impunity:

Female journalist told she needs male chaperone to cover politician's campaign
The Guardian, 10 Jul 2019
Campbell and her editor agreed the request was “sexist” and an “unnecessary use” of newsroom resources and that she should do the story alone. But when she informed the campaign, they insisted she would not be allowed.

“He reiterated that the campaign couldn’t agree unless a male colleague was present – this despite my offering to wear a Mississippi Today press badge in plain view at all times. But Robison insisted that trackers are trying to get any footage that would make the candidate look bad,” she wrote.

Foster stood by his decision, saying he did so “out of respect” for his wife, Heather, with whom he is pictured multiple times on his campaign website.

He just didn't want the stress of being accused of having an affair - I guess it's fair enough.

When the facts don't matter then I suppose one just attempts to limit potential damages....
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