Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Paul Anthony on February 19th, 2017, 5:28 pm 

Forest_Dump » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:13 pm wrote:

Has there been ANY past President who, even if you question the reality others point to (and I would agree that CNN, for example, seems almost hysterical on the topic of Trump), has given or allowed such a persistent image of desperation and chaos and STILL feels the need to campaign rather than generate an image of actually having won and being in charge?


To be fair, much of the chaos surrounding this 4-week presidency has been created by the media and supported by Trump's enemies (on both sides).

For example, much has been made of 300+ immigrants arrested by ICE in one day!!!!!!! The head of ICE took to Twitter to point out that during the Obama administration ICE arrested over 4000 people in one day. Oh, you never heard of that? Of course not. The media didn't cover it back then, so there were no demonstrations when it occurred.

There are many people who want everyone to believe Trump is failing, that he and his advisers are fighting among themselves, that he is accomplishing nothing of value while doing all sorts of dastardly things the Left thinks should warrant impeachment. And much of it is...fake news.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby wolfhnd on February 19th, 2017, 5:32 pm 

Braininvat » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:37 pm wrote:For those who prefer a text summary, can you describe the video content? Though I consider Pewdiepie to be uninteresting in almost every way, I suspect that some members may have an aversion to watching a video about someone who thinks anti-Semitic jokes are "entertainment." I get that he believes he is not anti-Semitic (whatever, Swedish dude), but it's also clear he doesn't belong to an ethnicity that's been on the receiving end of "jokes" for many centuries and is pretty much tone deaf on the whole matter.

Paul, re your comment to D30:

Even if there was a possibility of Trump being compromised AND able to surrender the nation to a foreign power, shouldn't you have been just as fearful with a Clinton presidency, given her reliance on foreign governments for the funding of the Clinton Foundation?

If you're going to be paranoid at least be non-partisan about it. :)



Your example was phrased in a somewhat partisan manner, too. Clinton divested from the CF, precisely to avoid any taint of foreign influence peddling, and independent auditors of the CF gave it the highest ratings in terms of ethical handling of donations. This seems on quite a different level of concern from Trump's many unsavory business dealings, everything from Trump University to the Taj casino to Deutschebank to steering black people away from his early real estate holdings. Whatever his Russian connections, it's hardly paranoia to have concern over a President who is so unafraid of sleazy dealings. I'm a moderate who has voted for Republicans at the state level, and I am hardly waving a foam finger here.


I think you have to watch the video if you are unfamiliar with the internet culture that the WSJ reporters clearly were not in touch with.

When you are dealing with comedy you can expect a degree of vulgarity that will offend some people. The problem as has been the case with much of mainstream media of late is the selective offense. It isn't so much what is in the news it is what is barely covered and quotes out of context.

If you are over 40 or like me uninterested in popular culture then you most likely are not going to be able to accurately interpret something like this and I think it is worth the effort to get educated on it.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Forest_Dump on February 19th, 2017, 5:46 pm 

Paul Anthony wrote:To be fair, much of the chaos surrounding this 4-week presidency has been created by the media and supported by Trump's enemies (on both sides).


As with the rest you wrote, I think you are making my point for me. This guy is making more and more enemies every day it seems (and loosing more potemtial friends). So sure, Obama, who was accused of being too far to the left, was able to hit hard with his right and get away with it (your point and I will resist framing that as fake news), but Trump, who has been accused of being too far to the right, hits relatively weak from his right (and I guess following a campaign promise) can't even get away with that. Don't you start getting the impression that he is never going to be able to lead any kind of UNITED States but will end up just blaming Obama, Hillary and the corporate media for a lot of things that will likely go wrong over the next few years?
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby d30 on February 19th, 2017, 5:48 pm 

Paul Anthony » February 19th, 2017, 8:42 am wrote:
Braininvat » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:37 am wrote:


Your example was phrased in a somewhat partisan manner, too. Clinton divested from the CF, precisely to avoid any taint of foreign influence peddling, and independent auditors of the CF gave it the highest ratings in terms of ethical handling of donations.


Clinton promised to divest from the CF IF she was elected. She did not separate herself from a charity that accepted massive contributions from such stellar human rights nations as Saudi Arabia, while claiming to be a supporter of women's rights. After she lost the election, the flow of donations dried up. Make of that what you will. :)

Maybe a second mention of it will get you off this tactic you keep resorting to: comparing Clinton's foundation to the sprawling Trump business empire replete with corruption potential is comparing a molehill to a mountain.

"No concern about violation of Clinton, even though by foreigners." That has not yet been proven.

If memory serves, Julian Assange (wikileaks) is a foreigner, and openly admits hacking the Democratic Party. So it makes no difference whether he gave the data to Russians or others. Assange is a foreigner, so my point stands: you never squawked about Clinton being sabotaged by foreigners, yet start a whole thread based on your outrage over leaks embarrassing to Trump, even though by Americans - not foreigners.

The DNC email leaks and the Trump memo leaks differ in one important way. Trump is a sitting President. Leaks, especially if not true, have the ability to interfere with the proper operation of government. I consider that much more serious than the possibility of interfering with an election process.


So, you're concerned about the "proper operation of government," but not the proper operation of the election that established that government. You're rationalizing, and all you're rationalizations somehow always disfavor Clinton and favor Trump, despite your claims of non-partisonship.

It's not partisan. Yes, I do not like Clinton, but I didn't vote for Trump, either. Neither was my preference for President. I also didn't vote for Obama, but if these leaks had occurred during his presidency I would be just as concerned.


It's hard to accept that, based on so much you've long been saying. Anti-Obama. Anti-Clinton. Trump-sympathetic.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Paul Anthony on February 19th, 2017, 5:51 pm 

Forest,

You mean like Obama blamed Bush for at least the first six years of his presidency? Again, this is nothing new.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby d30 on February 19th, 2017, 5:55 pm 

Paul Anthony » February 19th, 2017, 1:28 pm wrote:For example, much has been made of 300+ immigrants arrested by ICE in one day!!!!!!! The head of ICE took to Twitter to point out that during the Obama administration ICE arrested over 4000 people in one day. Oh, you never heard of that? Of course not.

See how you automatically accept a tweet sympathetic to Trump? Automatically accept that his tweet is not fake news. See how your bias just keeps on showing.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Paul Anthony on February 19th, 2017, 6:00 pm 

d30 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:48 pm wrote:

It's hard to accept that, based on so much you've long been saying. Anti-Obama. Anti-Clinton. Trump-sympathetic.


You keep insisting I am biased against only Democrats, despite that I have bashed Bush just as much. You do know he was a Republican, don't you? :)

And, to further set the record straight, I think Bill Clinton was a good President. Hillary would not be. IMO the three best Presidents in my lifetime have been JFK, Clinton and Reagan. Two were Democrats, one a Republican. I do not support either Party and have been vocal in my opposition of the two-party system. I am an Independent.

But, believe whatever you wish. Your opinion is just not that important to me, so this is the last time I will defend my position against your accusations.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Forest_Dump on February 19th, 2017, 6:01 pm 

And what do we make of Trump saying, on video, "I love Wikileaks".
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Paul Anthony on February 19th, 2017, 6:24 pm 

Forest_Dump » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:01 pm wrote:And what do we make of Trump saying, on video, "I love Wikileaks".


Touche. :)
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Paul Anthony on February 19th, 2017, 8:24 pm 

d30 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:55 pm wrote:
Paul Anthony » February 19th, 2017, 1:28 pm wrote:For example, much has been made of 300+ immigrants arrested by ICE in one day!!!!!!! The head of ICE took to Twitter to point out that during the Obama administration ICE arrested over 4000 people in one day. Oh, you never heard of that? Of course not.

See how you automatically accept a tweet sympathetic to Trump? Automatically accept that his tweet is not fake news. See how your bias just keeps on showing.


Here's why I believe it.

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/

What's your excuse?
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby wolfhnd on February 19th, 2017, 9:47 pm 

Trump says he is going to drain the swamp. This makes almost every federal employ if not his enemy at least unlikely to support him. The government is bloated so I have no problem with this policy. If anyone thought that Trump was not going to be attacked from all sides they are out of touch with reality.

The strategy his enemies are employing is to try and distract his administration by constantly hurling meaningless hyperbole at him. They are counting on his thin skin to make him overreact. It didn't work during the election campaign so It's kind of insane to think it will work now.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby d30 on February 20th, 2017, 12:16 am 

Paul Anthony » February 19th, 2017, 4:24 pm wrote:
d30 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:55 pm wrote:
Paul Anthony » February 19th, 2017, 1:28 pm wrote:For example, much has been made of 300+ immigrants arrested by ICE in one day!!!!!!! The head of ICE took to Twitter to point out that during the Obama administration ICE arrested over 4000 people in one day. Oh, you never heard of that? Of course not.

See how you automatically accept a tweet sympathetic to Trump? Automatically accept that his tweet is not fake news. See how your bias just keeps on showing.


Here's why I believe it.

http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/

What's your excuse?


Okay, but how do we know you hadn't already accepted it as truth, and only went to snopes.com after I questioned the validity of the tweet?
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Paul Anthony on February 20th, 2017, 1:12 am 

d30 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:16 pm wrote:

Okay, but how do we know you hadn't already accepted it as truth, and only went to snopes.com after I questioned the validity of the tweet?


Oh ye of little faith. Donald Trump said Obama deported over 2 million immigrants. I checked it then. When the ICE post appeared, I had no reason to doubt it. After your accusation, I went back to find the snopes article - for your benefit. In the future, instead of always assuming Trump - and I - are lying, do a little research on your own.
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Re: Are we at risk of a Deep State rebellion?

Postby Braininvat on February 20th, 2017, 10:38 am 

No time this a.m. but perhaps a more useful analysis is found in comparing the criteria for deportation, countries of origin, and so on. I'm not sure how much raw numbers tell us.
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