Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Watson on March 7th, 2018, 5:39 pm 

Not guns for everybody - just the able-bodied white males who could be called up for military service.


Well that was the original interpretation, in the good ol' days of the flint'loc. The more modern interpretation some have adopted is the 'more guns, not less' interpretation which sort of implies a gun for everyone.

My point was that the NRA calls on the constitution as the end all and be all, last word on gun ownership. Others would point out it is an out dated document and should not carry that much weight in the days of automatic single purpose weapons.

So trump might what to flip the argument about term limits and say the constitution is out dated?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on March 7th, 2018, 6:13 pm 

Watson » March 7th, 2018, 4:39 pm wrote:The more modern interpretation some have adopted is the 'more guns, not less' interpretation which sort of implies a gun for everyone.

My point was that the NRA calls on the constitution as the end all and be all, last word on gun ownership.

Yes, and since it's a matter of interpretation, that one, too, can be quashed by a supreme court ruling.
As long as anyone has a voice, there is no "last word".

So trump might what to flip the argument about term limits and say the constitution is out dated?

Sure. But, as I said, it would depend on how much support he could muster - not for the ten minutes that his average staffer stays on board, but for the long haul. What d'you give for his chances of holding and keeping a loyal power-base with enough clout to pacify the country?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on March 7th, 2018, 10:26 pm 

When examined on voir dire by the court a prospective juror is always asked this question:

“If you are selected as a juror in this case, will you follow the law as I will explain it to you, even if you personally disagree with the law?”

If the answer is “yes,” the prospective juror will not be excused.

If the answer is “no,” the juror will not, as a matter of law, be qualified to sit on any jury and will therefore be excused for cause.

If the court permitted a juror to disregard the law as it exists and substitute his own opinion as to what the law should be, the court would, in effect, be allowing a juror to change the rules in the middle of the game. This would be profoundly unfair to the parties who are prepared to present their arguments on the basis of the law, as they know it is.

The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.

If anyone feels so strongly about a particular law that he decides deliberately to disobey it, he has a moral privilege to do so. However, with it comes a moral condition that he accept whatever punishment the law provides.

Without this acceptance, there is neither a moral nor a legal basis for civil disobedience. This is a lesson that the Mayor of Oakland, California has yet to learn.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on March 7th, 2018, 11:58 pm 

Neri » March 7th, 2018, 9:26 pm wrote:
The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.


Do you believe this?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on March 8th, 2018, 2:01 am 

Serpent » March 8th, 2018, 11:58 am wrote:
Neri » March 7th, 2018, 9:26 pm wrote:
The United States is a democracy. Plenty of opportunity is provided for citizen to petition state and federal legislatures to change a law with which they disagree. The people also have the right to peaceably assemble in protest of any law.


Do you believe this?


I think it is true enough. That is not to say there would not be non-governmental (yet still political) opposition to such an act - we this all the time don't we?

When things get pushed too far then rebellions begin ans tyranny rises to beat down any protesters it can. At such a point the whole political infrastructure becomes so unstable that desperate measure take hold of people. No sensible governing body does anything to antagonise society and cause a political implosion (not intentionally anyway.) Although it is precisely the far left that does want precisely this; and being a peculiar type of anarchist myself I can understand it, but I don't condone it.

My view is the individual should treat themselves with anarchical rage and treat society with parental respect. I truly think the political divide is due to people severing themselves from themselves and projecting thheir fault others because they've not been given the means or know how of coming to understand themselves.

We're all just children who think we're better than children. The irony is children are most attuned to themselves than most adults, because they are right within the process of creating and individual setting for themselves. The issue us dumbo "adults" have is unearthing that childlike quality and nascent being in a clam and measured manner. We most certainly need to do so in order to keep moving forward.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Neri on March 8th, 2018, 10:14 am 

Serpent,

Of course, I believe it.

Anyone with two eyes and half a brain in his head should believe it as well.

BJ,

Well said.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby BadgerJelly on March 8th, 2018, 10:30 am 

"clam and measured manner" haha! Next time I'll wait until I have something better than this crappy phone to type on.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on March 8th, 2018, 2:56 pm 

Well, then I suppose there is nothing to worry about.
What could possibly go wrong?
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on May 19th, 2018, 1:05 am 

Trump's focus on Amazon and Bezos - his attempt to punish him because he does not like the free speech in Bezos' newspaper seems to be going unchecked.



What happens when this becomes just the norm?

Qatar have apparently bowed to pressure from the WH due to them previously refusing to invest in Kushner's failing property in NY.

It can just be the same game for American businesses - either fall in line or suffer punishment.

There is an apparent discernible pattern here... either 'report favourably' on the POTUS, or get ready for his verbal, economic, or perhaps even violent wrath (if the Daniels thug story is true).
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on May 25th, 2018, 11:00 pm 

Co-author of Trump's Art of the Deal on the topic of Trump's personal lawyer crashing the recent DOJ meeting, stating that "this is the history of tyranny" - at 5:00 - "you begin to break down people's willingness to resist". It seems that it is part of going after Rosenstein - if he denied the meeting then they'd fire him. And now he's allowing whoever to join the meeting, which would probably be a sackable offence if those meeting-crashers had not been Trump accomplices. Lol, he can't win - I wouldn't be surprised if Trump pulled another 'holier than thou' act and said Rosenstein shouldn't have allowed the chief of staff and his lawyer into the meeting, even though it was in Trump's interests that they were there. The same happened to Comey releasing the Hilary probe stuff just before the election - it was in Trump's favour but he wanted to appear principled and used that stance to fire Comey.

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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on June 8th, 2018, 9:05 am 

Trump Lawyers Reveal He ‘Dictated’ Misleading Statement On Son’s Russian Meeting
HuffPost, 06/03/2018
Trump’s authorship of the problematic response — confirmed for the first time by his own attorneys — was an intriguing aside in the letter in which the key point was that he is essentially legally untouchable because he is the president. He can’t be compelled to testify in the Mueller investigation, and has the power to shut down any Justice Department probe and pardon whomever he wants, according to the letter.

“Indeed, the President not only has unfettered statutory and Constitutional authority to terminate the FBI director,” the letter states, “he also has Constitutional authority to direct the Justice Department to open or close an investigation, and, of course, the power to pardon any person before, during, or after an investigation and/or conviction.”
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on June 16th, 2018, 12:14 am 

Mattis, US Defense Secretary, emphasizes America's "moral authority" over other more dictator-driven governments who murder journalists and so on, whilst Trump apparently seeks to normalize such behaviour and jokes about copying it, even:



Trump escalated the tension on the Korean peninsula and is now using that situation in order to explain his appeasing of Kim - as an excuse for his befriending and complimenting him.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Serpent on June 16th, 2018, 12:14 pm 

It can't happen here. The United States is a functioning democracy with a robust constitution. Its president is (just kidding of course) about what a good idea it is to be dictator for life and have military parades to celebrate him. It will all be all right.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on June 30th, 2018, 2:03 am 

Just wow, look at these Republicans hammer deputy AG Rosenstein as he oversees the protection of US democracy from foreign adversaries:



How a would-be dictators cronies are willing to throw away their national dignity on camera like this is stunning. Of course it is happening all around the world right now in much less savoury and more private contexts. It is just stunning to see it in America.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby hyksos on September 22nd, 2018, 4:27 pm 

im-18224.jpg

gorsuch_shake.png


With Kavanaugh and Gorsuch rammed onto the court, there will be a 5-4 decision by the SCOTUS that a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime. After eroding the Judiciary branch by controlling it, King Trump will pardon Manafort, pardon Cohen, pardon Papadopolous, and pardon Mike Flynn.


Thomas Jefferson wrote: He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit."


jefferson_smErode_judiciary.png


Every major figure in the history of civic government, every major writer and every major thinker, from Plato to Montesquieu ... from Rousseau to John Locke ... even Thomas Jefferson himself have all written about how kings do this. King Louis XVI. King George III. Joseph Stalin. All dictators and tyrants control the courts and weaponize it against their enemies. They use their office to pardon their friends.

Donald Trump does not care for the judiciary or its independence -- and neither do his MAGA-hat wearing zombie followers. They see the courts and crimes as "speedbumps" and temporary inconveniences to be "dispensed with". Just like Hitler did. Just like Stalin did. Just like _insert european monarch_ did.

With presidential pardons flying left and right, the trials of Manafort, Cohen, Flynn, and Papadopolous will not be criminal trials. They will be mock trials : just as Jefferson warned us about.

The MAGA hats will Sig-heil at their king, continuing to operate under the delusion that dictators seize power by "Taking arr gunz" and "Banning the Bible". Even though the entire swath of Western History (from Athenian city-states to Joseph Stalin) is screaming at them that is not the way monarchs have held onto power. Monarchs seize power and hold onto it by eroding the independence of the Judiciary. That's how they have been doing it for 10 centuries.

At base, the MAGA hats want a king. They don't want democracy. They don't want a Rule of Law. They want a Protestant Theocracy. They want a White Male Christian Emperor.


Donald Trump cares even less about the Rule of Law. He supposes he is above the Law.
  • If a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime, then he could "shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it". And where did I get that example from? (oh, now I remember). Donald Trump said it himself, on camera.
  • Donald Trump has told his followers that the free press is an "Enemy of the people".
  • Donald Trump has gone on unhinged twitter rants about a "Criminal Deep State"
This is a psychological profile of a man whom would not leave his office on peaceful terms. He will not leave office as president, even when tanks are firing on the building.
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Re: Trump: An Emerging Dictatorship?

Postby Mossling on September 22nd, 2018, 10:42 pm 

Not that any of the MAGA's will appreciate this, but:

Image

Image

It seems that the West has been so enchanted with it's democracy and the political leverage and 'mission' it gave them to democratize the whole world (in their expected favour, let it not be ignored), that these ancient philosophers' words were apparently unknown - or actively played down.

Democracy is NOT the only way, it is A way.

Haha, the irony is that Trump's America will probably end up worse than a Communist-type state like N Korea at this rate. I am thinking he'll probably turn the USA into something more like a pseudo-religious quagmire like one of those "shithole" countries he so despises.

He's inherited a castle in the sky from his forebears and now he's gonna send it hurtling into the sewage below just like he did with his father's wealth - bankruptcy after bankruptcy.

You'd better strap yourself in...

Look at the Parthenon now - surrounded by Golden Dawn, look at Greco-Bactria - largest Buddhist stone-cut statues with heads blown off by the Taliban, look at Constantinople - seat of the Eastern Roman Empire - occupied by militant Dervishes.

Civilisations rise and fall - and tend to fall due to idiot tyrants like Trump.

Image

Image
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